2015 4Runner vs. GC
- Thread starter Borisu
- Start date
Greenamphibious
Banned
I type like you take pictures.... horribly!
Yes, this is absolutely correct - proven design and very reliable and durable. Fairly efficient has a lot of room for interpretation though IMO, but yes, it does it's job. And this is exactly why I'm on this forum asking for feedback.
And yes, I hold an engineering degree myself...
Unless you're an engineer for Chysler, this should be a simple choice. I imagine they would be upset if you drove a 4Runner to work...
LOL! No, I'm not
Whiplash Willy
New member
But if you were an engineer for Chrysler, you would know to never buy one of their products!
Well, 5 makes them much longer which not only affects the MPGs but also makes it more "hesitant" to shift. Also, and that may only be partially related to the transmission, on the low RPMs, it's annoyingly slow. Once on the highway, I actually liked how it handles better than GC. But at the slow speeds (or from the stand still), it was too slow for my tastes.
And I'm coming from a truck based SUV with similar 4L V6. As I mentioned before, Xterra's 5sp AT sucks big time IMO - I've had them as rentals couple of times, but even then it feels a bit more responsive than what I experienced in '15 4R
1engineer
Moderator
Don't know why you are so hung up on speed. Did you actually floor it? Here, check this out: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/163913-slow-slow-acceleration-3.html#post1643939 Check out the table and the 0-60 times.
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Whiplash Willy
New member
The older 4th Gen 4runner's AT also has 5 gears, and has no issues with shift hesitation. It also downshifts quickly, and holds lower gears for a good amount of time.
The problem with the 5th gen's AT, isn't that it doesn't have 6 gears, it is that it is programmed to shift for fuel economy, at the cost of driveability. Even if it had 6 hears, it would never want to downshift (unless flogged), hold a gear, and still always put you an a higher then necessary. Better designed shift logic, or a true and separate sport mode is all it needs to fix its drivablity issues.
Of course I did - that's the first thing everybody does after driving off the lot for a test drive
I'm not concerned with 0-60 - not planning to drag race it. My concern was day-to-day getting off the light, merging into highway, etc. Just seemed much slower at lower speeds/RPMs than others I've tried (granted, that was the only BOF SUV in my list) or my current Xterra.
Even in manual mode, until it picked up decent amount of RPMs, it felt too slow... and yes, that's purely subjective as I didn't measure it with the stop watch.
1engineer
Moderator
Of course I did - that's the first thing everybody does after driving off the lot for a test drive
I'm not concerned with 0-60 - not planning to drag race it. My concern was day-to-day getting off the light, merging into highway, etc. Just seemed much slower at lower speeds/RPMs than others I've tried (granted, that was the only BOF SUV in my list) or my current Xterra.
um, 0-30 times then? Your perception is why butt dynos don't count ever. Nobody has the same ones.
You're right... can't argue with the laws of physics... but it's my butt that's going to be getting a ride there, and not the soulless device measuring the performance.
Peyto
New member
I recall in a similar thread on here seeing the wise statement that you can only have two out of the following three things:
Makes a ton of sense when looking at the Jeeps, T4R, Land Cruisers and GX470s.
- Reliability
- "Bells & Whistles"
- Reasonable price (for this class of vehicle meaning in the $40,000 range)
Makes a ton of sense when looking at the Jeeps, T4R, Land Cruisers and GX470s.
1engineer
Moderator
I have no idea who said that.
DesertCanyons
New member
Jeep GRand Cherokee vs Toyota 4Runner Trail
I've made this comparison recently. I compared the Jeep GC Limited, the Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon and the Toyota 4Runner. I'm about to buy the T4R.
I looked closely at the Jeep GC Limited 4x4 with Quadra Trac II and the 5.7 liter V8 Hemi. I'd prefer more power, but the trade off is gas mileage. I also considered the Overland but it's too expensive while only offering a lot of luxury over the Limited. The Overland may offer the air shock lift, which is nice. I forget which model has that. The Jeep is slightly smaller in storage space behind the 2nd row or with the 2nd row folded flat. I go camping and haul scuba gear so the Toyota 4R was a plus in this regard.
The 4x4 transmission systems are different, as you noted. The Jeep has that 8-speed and most cars are going to more gears for fuel efficiency. I expect the T4R may go this way in the next couple of years. The best off-road 4 wheel drives, the Wrangler and the T4R still offer 5 speeds and there may be a practical, low-speed, off-road gearing reason why. The Jeep Quadra Trac II is vastly different than the T4R Trail. It's highly regarded and works well. The limited slip rear differential of the Jeep is different than the true locking rear differential of the T4R but they both serve the same purpose. The Jeep GC is a nicer looking vehicle, IMO. The exterior lines are more attractive and the interior finish is more polished and refined. There are very few aftermarket parts available for lifting a Jeep GC or adding roof racks, rock sliders and off-road bumpers.
After reading a lot of reviews from Jeep owners it became obvious that Jeep owners were experiencing a lot of problems with the fancy electronics and the dealer service departments weren't helping them much. The T4R is a simpler system by comparison, with less to fail, and that appealed to me.
You didn't mention this car on your bucket list but I also looked closely at the Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon and I am still a bit torn between it and the T4R. The Rubicon is trail ready with true locking front and rear differentials, front and rear sway bar disconnect for extended travel in 4 wheel drive. It has high and low 4x4 with a high 2 wheel setting, like the T4R Trail Edition. It has available leather seats and can be purchased with a matching rooftop and fenders, which makes it a better looking car, IMO. It has better ground clearance, approach and departure angles and durability to resist abuse on the trail. It has a V6 engine that's very similar to the T4R and can be purchased with an aftermarket 5.7L V8 if you know where to look (for several $1000 more). If you ding a wheel fender or bumper in the Jeep Wrangler it will cost less than a T4R to repair. The front and rear fenders are less vulnerable to body damage and can be repaired for a lot less. The Rubicon is ready to drive off the dealers lot and directly onto rugged off-road fun. It will always be more capable off-road than a T4R, in stock condition or with the same accessories. There are oodles of aftermarket parts for modifying a Wrangler, more than for a T4R.
Jeep has sold about 6 times as many Wranglers as Toyota has sold 4Runners, IIRC, so used parts will be easy to come by for the foreseeable future. That's been a problem for my 20 year old Jeep GC. My main reason for not buying a Rubicon is, no matter how much fun it may be off-road, no matter how much I look at it, it is just a butt ugly car. The Jeep interior is rugged and boxy where as the T4R is smooth and pleasant to the eye as well as being more comfortable.
Finally I looked at the Toyota 4Runner Trail Edition. I wanted to buy an American made car if I could, but that does not seem to be my plan now. The T4R offers more space for gear. It is slightly more capable off-road than the Jeep GC I described above. It's a body on frame design that is stiffer and more capable off-road. It is more reliable with fewer maintenance problems than the Jeep GC. It has fewer electronic systems to fail. The T4R Trail Edition with KDSS costs about $6500 less than the Jeep GC I considered. It will get better gas mileage than the Jeep GC with the 5.7 L V8 and about the same as the standard Jeep GC or Wrangler. I've read the T4R has better acceleration than the Jeep GC with a V6 and the Wrangler. The 0-60 mph stat's and driver reviews seem to prove this out.
If the T4R came with a 6 speed manual I'd seriously consider it, but it doesn't. The Jeep Wrangler Rubicon supposedly comes standard with a 6 speed manual but no one buys it and dealers don't stock it that way here in So Cal. I drove a 6 speed manual and liked it, but it's definitely more work in city traffic.
The Nissan Xterra is different than the 3 trucks I looked at. There's no comparison to these 3. It's a different car and smaller.
I've owned my 1995 Jeep GC 4x4 Orvis Edition with Upcountry lift for about 16 years now. It's taken me everywhere, on rugged roads in the So Cal desert, in snow and ice, on long trips and camping all over. I really like it and have hesitated to replace it for the last 5 to 10 years because there's nothing out there like it. Up through 2004 the Jeep GC was very capable off-road. The 2005 + Jeep GC are wider and longer with less ground clearance. It's a road car on a uni-body platform that was redesigned to improve safety at the expense of capability. I do go off-road so that made keeping my Jeep a better option than buying a new Jeep. My 1995 is simpler and much easier to repair than the newer Jeeps, even the 2000 to 2004. The T4R is probably more capable with it's locking differential than my current Jeep. That's going to be my next vehicle.
I've made this comparison recently. I compared the Jeep GC Limited, the Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon and the Toyota 4Runner. I'm about to buy the T4R.
I looked closely at the Jeep GC Limited 4x4 with Quadra Trac II and the 5.7 liter V8 Hemi. I'd prefer more power, but the trade off is gas mileage. I also considered the Overland but it's too expensive while only offering a lot of luxury over the Limited. The Overland may offer the air shock lift, which is nice. I forget which model has that. The Jeep is slightly smaller in storage space behind the 2nd row or with the 2nd row folded flat. I go camping and haul scuba gear so the Toyota 4R was a plus in this regard.
The 4x4 transmission systems are different, as you noted. The Jeep has that 8-speed and most cars are going to more gears for fuel efficiency. I expect the T4R may go this way in the next couple of years. The best off-road 4 wheel drives, the Wrangler and the T4R still offer 5 speeds and there may be a practical, low-speed, off-road gearing reason why. The Jeep Quadra Trac II is vastly different than the T4R Trail. It's highly regarded and works well. The limited slip rear differential of the Jeep is different than the true locking rear differential of the T4R but they both serve the same purpose. The Jeep GC is a nicer looking vehicle, IMO. The exterior lines are more attractive and the interior finish is more polished and refined. There are very few aftermarket parts available for lifting a Jeep GC or adding roof racks, rock sliders and off-road bumpers.
After reading a lot of reviews from Jeep owners it became obvious that Jeep owners were experiencing a lot of problems with the fancy electronics and the dealer service departments weren't helping them much. The T4R is a simpler system by comparison, with less to fail, and that appealed to me.
You didn't mention this car on your bucket list but I also looked closely at the Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon and I am still a bit torn between it and the T4R. The Rubicon is trail ready with true locking front and rear differentials, front and rear sway bar disconnect for extended travel in 4 wheel drive. It has high and low 4x4 with a high 2 wheel setting, like the T4R Trail Edition. It has available leather seats and can be purchased with a matching rooftop and fenders, which makes it a better looking car, IMO. It has better ground clearance, approach and departure angles and durability to resist abuse on the trail. It has a V6 engine that's very similar to the T4R and can be purchased with an aftermarket 5.7L V8 if you know where to look (for several $1000 more). If you ding a wheel fender or bumper in the Jeep Wrangler it will cost less than a T4R to repair. The front and rear fenders are less vulnerable to body damage and can be repaired for a lot less. The Rubicon is ready to drive off the dealers lot and directly onto rugged off-road fun. It will always be more capable off-road than a T4R, in stock condition or with the same accessories. There are oodles of aftermarket parts for modifying a Wrangler, more than for a T4R.
Jeep has sold about 6 times as many Wranglers as Toyota has sold 4Runners, IIRC, so used parts will be easy to come by for the foreseeable future. That's been a problem for my 20 year old Jeep GC. My main reason for not buying a Rubicon is, no matter how much fun it may be off-road, no matter how much I look at it, it is just a butt ugly car. The Jeep interior is rugged and boxy where as the T4R is smooth and pleasant to the eye as well as being more comfortable.
Finally I looked at the Toyota 4Runner Trail Edition. I wanted to buy an American made car if I could, but that does not seem to be my plan now. The T4R offers more space for gear. It is slightly more capable off-road than the Jeep GC I described above. It's a body on frame design that is stiffer and more capable off-road. It is more reliable with fewer maintenance problems than the Jeep GC. It has fewer electronic systems to fail. The T4R Trail Edition with KDSS costs about $6500 less than the Jeep GC I considered. It will get better gas mileage than the Jeep GC with the 5.7 L V8 and about the same as the standard Jeep GC or Wrangler. I've read the T4R has better acceleration than the Jeep GC with a V6 and the Wrangler. The 0-60 mph stat's and driver reviews seem to prove this out.
If the T4R came with a 6 speed manual I'd seriously consider it, but it doesn't. The Jeep Wrangler Rubicon supposedly comes standard with a 6 speed manual but no one buys it and dealers don't stock it that way here in So Cal. I drove a 6 speed manual and liked it, but it's definitely more work in city traffic.
The Nissan Xterra is different than the 3 trucks I looked at. There's no comparison to these 3. It's a different car and smaller.
I've owned my 1995 Jeep GC 4x4 Orvis Edition with Upcountry lift for about 16 years now. It's taken me everywhere, on rugged roads in the So Cal desert, in snow and ice, on long trips and camping all over. I really like it and have hesitated to replace it for the last 5 to 10 years because there's nothing out there like it. Up through 2004 the Jeep GC was very capable off-road. The 2005 + Jeep GC are wider and longer with less ground clearance. It's a road car on a uni-body platform that was redesigned to improve safety at the expense of capability. I do go off-road so that made keeping my Jeep a better option than buying a new Jeep. My 1995 is simpler and much easier to repair than the newer Jeeps, even the 2000 to 2004. The T4R is probably more capable with it's locking differential than my current Jeep. That's going to be my next vehicle.
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Blitzkrieg
New member
One thing I do remember from working on my kids Cherokee after the power window went out was what a complete and utter piece of shit the mechanism was and that Chrysler wanted like $190 for a replacement piece of shit regulator. It was the cheapest part I have ever seen in my life on any car.
I liked Chrysler products once upon a time. But I had some pretty serious issues with quality on the few I owned back in the day and I never looked back.
The only new domestic nameplate I would even consider owning today is Ford. I hate GM's styling and Chrysler/Jeep is just not there on the quality. And the one other thing I respect is Ford is the ONE domestic manufacturer that did NOT take Obama's bailout (our money).
I like Audi's (but they are hugely expensive to maintain). Same with Porsche (I couldn't take my Carerra 4 into the dealer for anything without walking out with $500 receipt).
I'll stick with Toyota. They are bulletproof, rarely have a flaw and have exceptional resale value thank you very much.
I liked Chrysler products once upon a time. But I had some pretty serious issues with quality on the few I owned back in the day and I never looked back.
The only new domestic nameplate I would even consider owning today is Ford. I hate GM's styling and Chrysler/Jeep is just not there on the quality. And the one other thing I respect is Ford is the ONE domestic manufacturer that did NOT take Obama's bailout (our money).
I like Audi's (but they are hugely expensive to maintain). Same with Porsche (I couldn't take my Carerra 4 into the dealer for anything without walking out with $500 receipt).
I'll stick with Toyota. They are bulletproof, rarely have a flaw and have exceptional resale value thank you very much.
