2015 4Runner vs. GC

Borisu said:
Even in manual mode, until it picked up decent amount of RPMs, it felt too slow... and yes, that's purely subjective as I didn't measure it with the stop watch.
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Most selective automatic transmissions don't have a true manual mode, Toyota included. What people mistakenly consider a "manual mode" is actually a forced maximum gear. All you are doing is telling the ECM that you no longer want to shift above your selected gear (i.e. if you select "4" then the vehicle will never shift above 4th gear), it will however downshift and decide how it wants to go back and forth on its own.

Most transmissions I have driven that have more than 6 gears tend to be annoying to me as they hunt for gears, drop/shift gears regularly, and over all seem like that have too many gears than the vehicle knows what to do with. Not to mention the horrid reliability we're seeing with a few excessively geared transmissions (particularly Jeep's in this case) makes me hesitant to even look at one. Even the ISF's 8-spd tends to have the first 4 gears too close and the last 4 too far apart.

Most of the 5th gen's sluggishness has to do with software rather than hardware. The drivetrain is roughly similar to the 4th gens, with the exception of a less advanced transfer case on some models and a newer V6.

Post Note-

You won't even want to go into the horror stories that are Hemi engines or for that matter the fact that Jeep dealerships STOCK cylinder heads for their V6s...
 
I have owed both the JGC and 4Runner. I am on my third 4Runner and will NEVER TOUCH the POS known as the JGC again.

Nuff said.
 
I just don't understand why some people think the 4runner isn't fast enough. It's a BOF truck for god's sake, it's big and it's powered by a V6, although solid and reliable. But if you mash on that skinny pedal, it will take off. I wouldn't even compare the GC to the 4R, the GC is more like a highlander, just a lot less reliable. I've had my 4R Trail exactly a year and loving it, in the city or off-road it's a pleasure to drive and hasn't let me down once. Based on my experience of owning one, I'd encourage anyone to get a 4R over a GC but if you have any doubts after test driving a 4R, it may not be the right vehicle for you.
 
Eagle62 said:
I just don't understand why some people think the 4runner isn't fast enough. It's a BOF truck for god's sake, it's big and it's powered by a V6, although solid and reliable. But if you mash on that skinny pedal, it will take off. I wouldn't even compare the GC to the 4R, the GC is more like a highlander, just a lot less reliable. I've had my 4R Trail exactly a year and loving it, in the city or off-road it's a pleasure to drive and hasn't let me down once. Based on my experience of owning one, I'd encourage anyone to get a 4R over a GC but if you have any doubts after test driving a 4R, it may not be the right vehicle for you.
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The 4Runner looks and drives like a truck. The used to be the point of SUV's. :)
 
BlackWorksInc said:
Most of the 5th gen's sluggishness has to do with software rather than hardware. The drivetrain is roughly similar to the 4th gens, with the exception of a less advanced transfer case on some models and a newer V6.
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Yep, throttle mapping and gear selection are biased towards MPGs. Every time I disconnect my battery for some reason, it feels like I gained 20hp until it re-learns for MPGs a few miles later. Some of it is also attributable to increased weight and larger stock tire diameter, with the same transmission and axle ratios of the 4th gen. The dual VVTI V6 has a bit more power, but low end torque isn't any better than the old 4.0 v6, and obviously much lower than the 4.7 v8.
 
Borisu said:
While 4R was surprisingly comfortable at Highway speeds, it's very reluctant, comparing to Jeep, at lower RPMs in day-to-day city driving.

Anybody was I in a similar boat? Any words of wisdom?
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While I agree the 4R is comfortable at highway speeds, I disagree that it is reluctant at lower RPM's. For as much gasping as the 4.0 does at higher revs, I find the low end torque to be very good.
 
The diesel engine in the Jeep is the only thing that would draw my interest.
The Toyota is like Apple products in sopme ways.
There are many other products/brands that use newer technology and have more bells and whistles. If you look at the current crop of midsize SUV's, you'll see most have more tech gadgets and gizmos.
But in the Toyota, when they do put tech/gadgets in their vehicle, they are completely tested and thought out. They dont throw in the latest technology without making sure it is tested and reliable.
I just bought a 2015 TE. Sure, it might be close to the end of the 5th generation line, but Im betting that this is the most reliable and tested vehicle in the field. The drivetrain has been used in several models for years.
Look at the original iPod and some of the next gens, there were plenty of competitors that had more features. But which was the most usable and reliable?
 
rpontbriand said:
The 4Runner looks and drives like a truck. The used to be the point of SUV's. :)
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Its pretty amazing that in several reviews of the 4Runner Trail/TRD, the reviewer criticized the 4Runner for having a manual transfer case lever.
Are they *&^*&^ kidding me?
Thats a selling point!!
The base vehicle has the electronic 4wd engagement switch.
But I wanted a manual lever and thats why I got the Trail!!
You would think that the reviewers would have a basic understanding of offroad vehicles and what the drivers want.
 
Understanding that this is a Toyota forum so mostly Jeep hate is expected...hell, I too will always take a 'Runner over a GC but you have to give some credit when credit it due.

I thought the last 'real' GCs were gone with the switch from WJ to WK. My '98 solid axle 318 ZJ was a beast, and the WJs were great as well offroad, just crappier overall build quality IMO. The WKs are when everything went to shit for any number of reasons.

I thought the WKIIs were great looking so I admit I cross shopped before ordering my '15 TEP. At the same point, my sister/bro-in-law ordered a '15 GC Limited 4wd, Pentastar 6 and 8-speed. I do love driving their GC, it is completely different than my TEP (you are exactly right when you think car vs. truck). In addition, while both nice the interior of their Limited is a few steps above my Trail Premium.

Still you say, my Runner should be so much more capable than their car-based cute ute corrrect? Well, I will forevermore respect the WKII GC's capability now after it shuttled 5 of us through a 29" snowfall blizzard to Snowshoe this past season (Note: it was the first time Snowshoe closed access on/off the mountain in their 30-years of existence) and we were one of the last cars up that afternoon, passing stranded motorists and lesser 4x4s the whole way up the hill.

What the GC might lack in frame and 'tough' truck features, it more than makes up for it with fancy shmancy computer-controlled 4x4/suspension/differential/traction/drivetrain systems. I was left totally and utterly impressed with it after that trip.

 
I had a Dodge and my step-daughter had a Jeep. I will never own another Chrysler so long as I live.

At about 34,000 miles, the TIP (or "brain") of the vehicle went nuts on my Dodge. Every electrical system in the truck went absolutely haywire as it melted down in the Lowe's parking lot. Never before did I understand how a parent of a toddler feels when their kid is going ballistic out of their control. While I owned it (up to about 90,000 miles), the blower motor crapped out twice, the radiator fan stopped working, the A/C compressor blew and I had to replace three window motors.

My step-daughter's Jeep fared no better. At 95,000 miles, the 3.7 L destroyed itself. Want to read some horror stories? Just Google "3.7 L Jeep." While the Cherokee doesn't have this engine, the horrific problems encountered with this particular engine say volumes about Chrysler's support of their vehicles, or lack thereof. There are endless complaints about this engine and yet the company has never issued a recall, service update, memo--nothing. Toyota does not operate this way.

Although Jeep claims to have an off-road heritage (which they do--this is not in dispute), the vast majority of JGCs are now front wheel drive. Take a Highlander off road and see how you do. :-)

One final thought: Jeeps were exploding when rear-ended for more than four years before Chrysler initiated a recall. Their fix was to install a trailer hitch.
 
sovat4r said:
Understanding that this is a Toyota forum so mostly Jeep hate is expected...hell, I too will always take a 'Runner over a GC but you have to give some credit when credit it due.

I thought the last 'real' GCs were gone with the switch from WJ to WK. My '98 solid axle 318 ZJ was a beast, and the WJs were great as well offroad, just crappier overall build quality IMO. The WKs are when everything went to shit for any number of reasons.

I thought the WKIIs were great looking so I admit I cross shopped before ordering my '15 TEP. At the same point, my sister/bro-in-law ordered a '15 GC Limited 4wd, Pentastar 6 and 8-speed. I do love driving their GC, it is completely different than my TEP (you are exactly right when you think car vs. truck). In addition, while both nice the interior of their Limited is a few steps above my Trail Premium.

Still you say, my Runner should be so much more capable than their car-based cute ute corrrect? Well, I will forevermore respect the WKII GC's capability now after it shuttled 5 of us through a 29" snowfall blizzard to Snowshoe this past season (Note: it was the first time Snowshoe closed access on/off the mountain in their 30-years of existence) and we were one of the last cars up that afternoon, passing stranded motorists and lesser 4x4s the whole way up the hill.

What the GC might lack in frame and 'tough' truck features, it more than makes up for it with fancy shmancy computer-controlled 4x4/suspension/differential/traction/drivetrain systems. I was left totally and utterly impressed with it after that trip.
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Good for you. One good trip doth not maketh a good vehicle. BTW the road to Snowshoe has been closed many times due to snow and ice.

Heck, 23 years ago in one season it was closed a bunch. There was one time you couldn't even get within 30 miles of Snowshoe!
The whole argument is the reliability and durability of the JGC. I'm quite sure there have been many that have taken the JGC through the rocks a few times with no issues. Even more have taken them through snow with no issues. The crux is doing it over and over for years with no problems. Toyota wins.

Lastly, you didn't go through 29" of snow unless you had a Unimog or a Sno Cat. Very few vehicles can.
 
1engineer said:
Good for you. One good trip doth not maketh a good vehicle. BTW the road to Snowshoe has been closed many times due to snow and ice.
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10-4....guess I was getting bad intel from resort employees, ski patrol, etc. Perhaps it was the first time the mountain was closed in their tenures there and my years up there.

1engineer said:
Lastly, you didn't go through 29" of snow unless you had a Unimog or a Sno Cat. Very few vehicles can.
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No, total 24-hour snowfall that Saturday was 29" on the mountain and we did not drive through 29" accumulation. It was simply completely unplowed driving from Staunton (VA) over the mountains and to the top as that 29" was quickly building. Road between Cass and the mountain base was clogged with drivers with nowhere to go, that they had the Sno Cats out for rescue/recovery purposes.

Lastly, yes, their GC may have no quality and the wheels fall off tomorrow, but their sunroof isn't rattling and thin-ass paint chipping off every which way at 4k miles either. No car/manufacturer is perfect and to each his own. Again, I'm a 4Runner fan boy and would have no other...just trying to give a little credit where I feel due.

By the way, aside from a quart or two of burnt oil between changes and a rear-end rebuild a few years back, my otherwise all-original ZJ is still rocking hard after 250k of abusive usage. Overall good quality if you ask me.
 
sovat4r said:
By the way, aside from a quart or two of burnt oil between changes and a rear-end rebuild a few years back, my otherwise all-original ZJ is still rocking hard after 250k of abusive usage. Overall good quality if you ask me.
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The WK/WKII is a different story... I had first hand experiences with the WK, and Jeep forum seems to confirm that the WKII is still having a large amount of issues.
 
sovat4r said:
10-4....guess I was getting bad intel from resort employees, ski patrol, etc. Perhaps it was the first time the mountain was closed in their tenures there and my years up there.



No, total 24-hour snowfall that Saturday was 29" on the mountain and we did not drive through 29" accumulation. It was simply completely unplowed driving from Staunton (VA) over the mountains and to the top as that 29" was quickly building. Road between Cass and the mountain base was clogged with drivers with nowhere to go, that they had the Sno Cats out for rescue/recovery purposes.

Lastly, yes, their GC may have no quality and the wheels fall off tomorrow, but their sunroof isn't rattling and thin-ass paint chipping off every which way at 4k miles either. No car/manufacturer is perfect and to each his own. Again, I'm a 4Runner fan boy and would have no other...just trying to give a little credit where I feel due.

By the way, aside from a quart or two of burnt oil between changes and a rear-end rebuild a few years back, my otherwise all-original ZJ is still rocking hard after 250k of abusive usage. Overall good quality if you ask me.
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Glad you got the one good one. I apparently got the three bad ones, which is the point: In this forum we talk about rattling sunroofs, thin paint and tire sizes. In their forum they talk about blown transmissions, engines, electronic failures and the like. No credit is due and Jeep engineers should get a backbone and stand up to their marketing guys and build something that could last. I'm sure they could do it but that's not the way their company is set up. Acceptable losses is their motto.
 
1engineer said:
Glad you got the one good one. I apparently got the three bad ones, which is the point: In this forum we talk about rattling sunroofs, thin paint and tire sizes. In their forum they talk about blown transmissions, engines, electronic failures and the like. No credit is due and Jeep engineers should get a backbone and stand up to their marketing guys and build something that could last. I'm sure they could do it but that's not the way their company is set up. Acceptable losses is their motto.
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Understood and point taken. I guess time will tell, so for now I can at least say 'thusfar I approve of the 2015 WKII 4wd V6 8speed'.

I really haven't heard too much about quality issues on the WKIIs since Sergio took the reigns at FiatChrysler. Guess I should pay a visit to my old friends over on JeepsUnlimited.com
 
sovat4r said:
Understood and point taken. I guess time will tell, so for now I can at least say 'thusfar I approve of the 2015 WKII 4wd V6 8speed'.

I really haven't heard too much about quality issues on the WKIIs since Sergio took the reigns at FiatChrysler. Guess I should pay a visit to my old friends over on JeepsUnlimited.com
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You don't have to, here is a quick screen shot from a few moments ago of random threads...
 

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No much changed for the 2015 T4R so:

I came from a 2011 Dodge Durango (same running gear as a GC) and couldn't be more happy with my 2014 TEP. Well, admittedly 3rd row seating on a Trail would be awesome, but that's minor in the big picture.

This May will be a year since FCA took back the nightmare that was our 2011 Durango. Within a couple months the headliner needed to be replaced and the navigation/entertainment system gremlins started showing up which required multiple trips to the stealership. Then the fun started, a noticeable shudder reared it's head seemingly on torque converter lockup. A couple trips ensued for a reflash and what else I don't recall. Everything was fine for a couple months until the shudder came back, so another trip to the stealership. They couldn't replicate it so we decided to take it to another stealership for a 2nd opinion. Come to find out there was no transmission fluid with no visible signs of leaking and there were never any puddles where we parked. So at around 25k miles we were more than happy to give back the Durango. Sure others have had it worse but the time suck this vehicle was and having to deal with stealerships because of it, was tiresome.

Not a JGC but still from the same manufacturer, my father-in-law has a 2011 or 2012 Wrangler which decides to stop running at random moments while on the highway. He's had to have it towed multiple times because it would not start again. It was lemon lawed as well, but for whatever reason he decided to keep it. Of course it still has problems, at least he has a lifetime warranty out of the deal.

FCA has made great strides in improving their vehicles and I'm sure they will continue to do so, but with my recent experience there is still a ways to go it seems. My 2014 TEP is the first Toyota I've owned, it has made me a convert and FCA products are officially on the list of vehicles I would not consider owning. Wasting time dealing with warranty issues is not a hobby I want to pursue.
 
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