2015 4Runner vs. GC

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WK2 Grand Cherokee Forum - JeepForum.com

2014 8-Speed Auto Issue, Recalls, Stalling after recalls, no heat on one side (blend gate door issue from WK is still a problem?!?!), Suspension shutter, 2014 Eco Diesel transmission issue...

Regret buying your JGC? - JeepForum.com

this is from pg.2
Man, that's some funny stuff right there!
I love the guy with the 2014 that his family has started calling "The Turd" because it regularly has to get picked up off the lawn.

Another: "I Love my Jeep and it's reliable because it has only had a starter, AC compressor and sensor go bad so far."

Classic. People do love their Jeeps though.
 
Man, that's some funny stuff right there!
I love the guy with the 2014 that his family has started calling "The Turd" because it regularly has to get picked up off the lawn.

Another: "I Love my Jeep and it's reliable because it has only had a starter, AC compressor and sensor go bad so far."

Classic. People do love their Jeeps though.

I get why people love the idea of Jeep (Their marketing is on point, see their Inspired commerical), until they get their reliability and QC in check, I would never even think of buying another.
 
The diesel engine in the Jeep is the only thing that would draw my interest.
The Toyota is like Apple products in sopme ways.
There are many other products/brands that use newer technology and have more bells and whistles. If you look at the current crop of midsize SUV's, you'll see most have more tech gadgets and gizmos.
But in the Toyota, when they do put tech/gadgets in their vehicle, they are completely tested and thought out. They dont throw in the latest technology without making sure it is tested and reliable.
I just bought a 2015 TE. Sure, it might be close to the end of the 5th generation line, but Im betting that this is the most reliable and tested vehicle in the field. The drivetrain has been used in several models for years.
Look at the original iPod and some of the next gens, there were plenty of competitors that had more features. But which was the most usable and reliable?

Great point. Toyota is about being functional, tried, true and tested. Is it the most advanced vehicle lineup out there? No, but its not going to crash, not going to lag and won't ever be unstable.

There's reasons to like and dislike Toyota, same way with Apple but there's no denying that each is very good at what they do.

I don't know, I see the Jeep lineup and save for the Wrangler, I still see too much suburban soccer mom. I'd really cross shop the Jeep Cherokee with the Highlander.
 
What's odd to me is how little Toyota does to promote certain technological advancements that actually are huge changes, but most consumers don't really even understand. KDSS for example. A few of us know about it - but most buyers have no idea what it is. D4S system on direct injection engines is another. It's IMO a game changer for direct injection and carbon build up. Only one manufacturer in the world has solved the carbon build up issue, and Toyota doesn't even advertise it. The awd system in the IS/GS. It's significantly better than the Torsen system (which Toyota owns the IP for), yet it's never advertised as to why it really is better than anything from Audi/BMW/Mercedes. And it's a lot better, but no-one knows about it. I'm sure there's plenty more to consider. I just find it kinda funny how Toyota never really even tells people about these things. They simply put them in cars and rely on people simply concluding that "my car went 200k miles with zero repairs because it's a Toyota."
 
No much changed for the 2015 T4R so:

I came from a 2011 Dodge Durango (same running gear as a GC) and couldn't be more happy with my 2014 TEP. Well, admittedly 3rd row seating on a Trail would be awesome, but that's minor in the big picture.

This May will be a year since FCA took back the nightmare that was our 2011 Durango. Within a couple months the headliner needed to be replaced and the navigation/entertainment system gremlins started showing up which required multiple trips to the stealership. Then the fun started, a noticeable shudder reared it's head seemingly on torque converter lockup. A couple trips ensued for a reflash and what else I don't recall. Everything was fine for a couple months until the shudder came back, so another trip to the stealership. They couldn't replicate it so we decided to take it to another stealership for a 2nd opinion. Come to find out there was no transmission fluid with no visible signs of leaking and there were never any puddles where we parked. So at around 25k miles we were more than happy to give back the Durango. Sure others have had it worse but the time suck this vehicle was and having to deal with stealerships because of it, was tiresome.

Not a JGC but still from the same manufacturer, my father-in-law has a 2011 or 2012 Wrangler which decides to stop running at random moments while on the highway. He's had to have it towed multiple times because it would not start again. It was lemon lawed as well, but for whatever reason he decided to keep it. Of course it still has problems, at least he has a lifetime warranty out of the deal.

FCA has made great strides in improving their vehicles and I'm sure they will continue to do so, but with my recent experience there is still a ways to go it seems. My 2014 TEP is the first Toyota I've owned, it has made me a convert and FCA products are officially on the list of vehicles I would not consider owning. Wasting time dealing with warranty issues is not a hobby I want to pursue.

I think alot of people buy vehicles they know to be unreliable, thinking that since they have a warranty, it won't be a big deal if something breaks, because they can just take it in to the dealer to get fixed for free, and be on their way.

They have no idea of what a nightmare it can be trying to get warranty work done.

When a problem first surfaces, there isn't always a trouble code to go along with it. It can be some weird noise or feeling that happens several times a day on your daily commute, but isn't easily reproducible. So you will make an appointment, a tech will drive your car for 5 min, and not notice the problem, and say nothing is wrong. So then you make another appointment, and insist you drive the tech around to reproduce the issue. Of course then you aren't able to reproduce the noise for the tech. Then you take more time and start driving around the dealership, looking for areas where you can regularly reproduce the problem.

Finally at your 3rd appointment, you are able to reproduce the noise for the tech. If you are lucky, they will agree it isn't normal, but some will still say it is normal, because it isn't in their best interest to do warranty work, as they get paid less for it.

So finally your car is in the shop and is going to get fixed! Of course while it is in the shop, you get stuck with some crappy sub compact rental vehicle, while your car sits in the dealer lot waiting on the parts they ordered, that will then be "Thrown at the Problem". A few days go by, and your parts are finally in! The parts are haphazardly installed into your car, because the tech wants to get this warranty job done as quick as possibly, so they can make better pay at a non-warranty job. Whatever was removed, usually doesn't completely go back together. Just enough to get the car back on the road.

If you are lucky, the parts they threw at the problem will actually fix your problem. In my experience, you are lucky if that happens 50% of the time. (I had my TDI Jetta in for sunroof issues 3 times, and finally gave up after they weren't able to fix it)

So if you are really lucky, you were only without your car, and stuck in a POS Rental, for only 1 week, and there were only a few bolts and clamps the tech forgot to put back in your car. Now you just have to wait until the next issue pops up.

My last 2 vehicles were new VW TDIs (A 2011 TDI Jetta and a 2012 TDI Golf) I owned each for about 1 year and 10k miles. Both had multiple issues pop up within those 10k miles. I could never enjoy either of those vehicles because I was always trying to reproduce weird noises and ect, and taking them into the dealer for warranty work. My free time was spent scouring the forums trying to find others with similar issues, because I knew I couldn't just drop the car off at the dealer, and expect them to diagnose and fix the issue.

In the almost 2 years and 35k miles I have spent in my 2013 4runner, I have yet to have a problem with it, and it has never seen a dealership mechanics bay. It is so nice just being able to drive it, and not worry about things breaking, or having to think about potential big ticket repair items down the road when it is out of warranty. I would never own an unreliable vehicle, like a VW or Jeep GC out of warranty because of all the high ticket items that are likely to break. I won't have any worries keeping my 4Runner after its 60k warranty has expired.

Another thing to add, un-reliable cars usually depreciate pretty quickly. If you end up buying a turd of a JGC, and get tired of all warranty work that comes along with it, you will take a huge depreciation hit if you want to get rid of it. The 4Runner on the other hand holds its value extremely well!
 
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I didn't read all 6 pages but I pretty sure the OP got his answer. Regardless, I want to share my story with this experience as well:

Growing up my mom owned two different late-80s Jeep Grand Wagoneers, one of which still sits in the front yard to this day (granted it hasn't been run in 15+ years). My dad had a mid-90s Jeep Cherokee Sport for a company car that he put almost 100k miles on before it had its first issue (dead water pump), at which point he replaced it with a 1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee, which my older sister inherited and still drives today (with over 220k on the clock). Half-way through college my folks got me a matching, used 1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee, which was my first and only vehicle up until September of last year.

In other words, I was very much a "Jeep person" going into my new car search, and pretty much assumed that I would just get a new GC. With that said, I still did my research, and quickly realized that the 4Runner was the only mid-size SUV that could match (or exceed) the performance of the GC.

I actually went to the Toyota dealership first (because it was closer) and had a generally positive experience. The salesman wasn't pushy. He understood that I was looking for a rugged, capable vehicle, and was more than willing to discuss the merits of the Trail and even the not-yet-released TRDP. I asked him to honestly compare the 4Runner to a GC, and told me the Jeeps were a great vehicle and I'd be happy either way.

When I finally went to the Jeep dealership I had an altogether different experience. The salesman was a bit more aggressive, and after just a few minutes we were sitting at his desk BUILDING my jeep on his computer so we could make the purchase that day! When I told him I was interested in the Off-Road Adventure II package, he kept asking me why. I'm sure part of it was they didn't have any of those on the lot, but I genuinely think he was confused why I would want a more rugged, capable GC. I asked him the same question I had asked they Toyota guy: "Compare the GC to the 4Runner," and his response was "You can't compare Jeep to Toyota anymore, you have to compare it to the imports like Mercedes and BMW." That comment right there is what eliminated the GC as an option for me. The Jeep sales guy himself believed that the GC was in the class of "luxury SUV", and was unwilling to compare it to an actual rugged, capable vehicle. I left and never called back.

A few weeks later I was back at the Toyota dealership picking up my new 2015 Trail, and I couldn't be happier. Jeep used to make a capable vehicle (and if you count the Wrangler they still do), but as far as mid-size SUV's go, there is no comparison. If you want fancy leather and electronic doodads, and are willing to pay more for a less capable vehicle, get a GC. If you want a true, rugged, mid-size SUV that still has all the modern convenience features you could want, and costs less money, get a 4Runner.
 
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What's odd to me is how little Toyota does to promote certain technological advancements that actually are huge changes, but most consumers don't really even understand. KDSS for example. A few of us know about it - but most buyers have no idea what it is. D4S system on direct injection engines is another. It's IMO a game changer for direct injection and carbon build up. Only one manufacturer in the world has solved the carbon build up issue, and Toyota doesn't even advertise it. The awd system in the IS/GS. It's significantly better than the Torsen system (which Toyota owns the IP for), yet it's never advertised as to why it really is better than anything from Audi/BMW/Mercedes. And it's a lot better, but no-one knows about it. I'm sure there's plenty more to consider. I just find it kinda funny how Toyota never really even tells people about these things. They simply put them in cars and rely on people simply concluding that "my car went 200k miles with zero repairs because it's a Toyota."

That and they continue to let people think Jeeps are the only vehicles that can go off road. Jeep puts out videos of the Cherokee Trailhawk of all things on Hells Revenge and Toyota does nothing for the 4Runner except for one story from 2009 in Four Wheeler about the test mule trail editions on the Rubicon. Come on Toyota, put videos on your website of 4Runners in Moab or other trails once in a while. Toyota has an amazing off road heritage going back to the 1940s just like Jeep, but no one knows this except 4x4 enthusiasts.
 
They have no idea of what a nightmare it can be trying to get warranty work done.

This right here. The rest of what you wrote rings so true for me. My closest Dodge stealership was (another has since been built a lot closer) at least 20 minutes door to door, and they didn't give us a rental. Any time the Durango was dropped off, usually by my wife, it was endeavor because I wasn't always able to pick her up.

I also have 2011 Clubman which was put together by 2 year old. Interior rattles are something I've come to live with, but not before many trips to the stealership to try and remedy. What really got me was when I took the door panels off I found they had randomly placed foam washers on about 7 of the 40+ total grommets to stop the rattle. Why not put washers on every one? It couldn't cost more than a couple dollars.

Warranties are great to have, but suck to deal with.
 
I bought my 4Runner fairly recently--and was really torn between a used 4Runner and a new Wrangler Unlimited. I went with a 2011 with 40,000 miles on it and never looked back. Best decision I've made in a while.
 
You didn't mention this car on your bucket list but I also looked closely at the Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon and I am still a bit torn between it and the T4R.
I din't consider Rubicon. My only reason for replacing an X is because I can't fit there anymore - need to be able to fit three car seats on the second row. Otherwise, I was planning to drive that thing into the ground. With proper maintenance, it'd easily go 200+K miles. I'm not an "off-roader" in a true sense of it. I took my X on the trails maybe 3-4 times and they were pretty medium trails. I do drive the mountains in the winter including some bad "side roads" a lot and I find myself on relatively easy trails once in a while while going fishing, etc. So I want to be able to get myself whenever I feel like going and not get stuck on the way there, but riding the Rubicon trail just so that I can put a checkmark that I did that is not in plans. Thus, I'm also not interested in after market lifts, etc. That being said, I want to be able to go around another SUV that got stuck in the snow... well, maybe I'll also pull him out if I feel generous :)

The Jeep Wrangler Rubicon supposedly comes standard with a 6 speed manual but no one buys it and dealers don't stock it that way here in So Cal. I drove a 6 speed manual and liked it, but it's definitely more work in city traffic.
I'm ok working the 6sp in traffic - that's what I got right now (and for the last 20 years)... but that's going to have to change, unfortunately, as nothing that would work for me comes with manual anymore

The Nissan Xterra is different than the 3 trucks I looked at. There's no comparison to these 3. It's a different car and smaller.
Xterra is a direct competitor to FJ, which Toyota has discontinued last year. They are virtually identical in all the specs and capabilities. Stock, X is not match to Wrangler, and especially Rubicon. When properly fitted, I've seen Off-Road editions do some crazy stuff on the trail.
 
I din't consider Rubicon. My only reason for replacing an X is because I can't fit there anymore - need to be able to fit three car seats on the second row.

Check out the Diono Radian RXT Car seat. It fits 3 across in most midsized vehicles, and some compacts as well. It is also highly rated.

diono-RXT.jpg


RadianRXT Car Seats, Convertible Booster Car Seat | Diono
 
Check out the Diono Radian RXT Car seat. It fits 3 across in most midsized vehicles, and some compacts as well. It is also highly rated.

Oh yeah, Diono is the only way I can even consider anything other than a three row vehicle. I can't say I'm a huge fan of them - to me they seem not as comfortable as the Recaro's that I'm using now, but oh well... they will have to do.

Unfortunately, Xterra is too narrow even for dionos... and tire wells sticking into the rear seat and eating few extra inches from either side are not helping either
 
That and they continue to let people think Jeeps are the only vehicles that can go off road. Jeep puts out videos of the Cherokee Trailhawk of all things on Hells Revenge and Toyota does nothing for the 4Runner except for one story from 2009 in Four Wheeler about the test mule trail editions on the Rubicon. Come on Toyota, put videos on your website of 4Runners in Moab or other trails once in a while. Toyota has an amazing off road heritage going back to the 1940s just like Jeep, but no one knows this except 4x4 enthusiasts.

Toyota USA is all about the Prius. If they wanted to sell offroad vehicles in the USA they'd at least give us a nice 70 series.
 
Xterra is a direct competitor to FJ, which Toyota has discontinued last year. They are virtually identical in all the specs and capabilities. Stock, X is not match to Wrangler, and especially Rubicon. When properly fitted, I've seen Off-Road editions do some crazy stuff on the trail.

I come from an off road xterra with a 3" lift. They're nice trucks and very capable on the trail when setup the right way but quality build does not compare to a 4R. When my timing chain guides went to shit at 37,000 miles, I decided it was time to find something more reliable. I ended up with the 4Runner, took 6 weeks to get to NY but was well worth the wait. I had never driven a toyota before, only a quick test ride in an SR5 and thought it was a lush ride compared to the X. When I finally got my Trail with KDSS and had time to really get acquainted with it, I knew I made the right choice. My truck's a year old, still has a stock suspension and so far, I've had it off road, in several inches of snow, ice, mud, NYC crater-size potholes, haven't gotten stuck once, and best of all, haven't had one single problem with it. Go take another test ride in one and try to find one with KDSS. This time step on the gas real good, you'll see.
 
Then you found out that car seats don't actually work...

http://www.nber.org/papers/w12519.pdf

ABSTRACT
Young children are required to use child safety seats, and the age threshold at which children can legally
graduate to seat belts has steadily increased. This paper tests the relative effectiveness of child safety
seats, lap-and-shoulder seat belts, and lap belts in preventing injuries among motor vehicle passengers
aged 2-6. We analyze three large, representative samples of crashes reported to police, as well as linked
hospital data. We find no apparent difference in the two most serious injury categories for children
in child safety seats versus lap-and-shoulder belts.
Child safety seats provide a statistically significant
25% reduction in the least serious injury category. Lap belts are somewhat less effective than the
two other types of restraints, but far superior to riding unrestrained.

If you take into consideration that 4 out of 5 child seats are installed improperly, then the data they used for analysis doesn't really show the effectiveness of child safety seats. An improperly installed seat isn't going to protect its occupant well in a crash.
 
If its not a Honda or a Toyota/Lexus your asking for a big headache and drain on your wallet. I like my odds in a Toyota after being burned by others. Dodge/Jeep, anything European (all friggin Junk), even anything US is a crap shoot.
 
Read your own link.

Bush started it, Obama made it happen. Whats your point?

GM and Chrysler took the money. Ford did not. End of story. ;-)

that's only because ford mortgaged its assets back in 2006, they technically couldn't get a 2nd mortgage on the first mortgage of 24.5 Billion.

and if you read the wiki entry they still had a proposal on the table of asking for 9 billion loan and 5 billion alt energy loan that they never followed thru with asking.
 
XTerra vs FJ Cruiser

I din't consider Rubicon. My only reason for replacing an X is because I can't fit there anymore - need to be able to fit three car seats on the second row. Otherwise, I was planning to drive that thing into the ground. With proper maintenance, it'd easily go 200+K miles. I'm not an "off-roader" in a true sense of it. I took my X on the trails maybe 3-4 times and they were pretty medium trails. I do drive the mountains in the winter including some bad "side roads" a lot and I find myself on relatively easy trails once in a while while going fishing, etc. So I want to be able to get myself whenever I feel like going and not get stuck on the way there, but riding the Rubicon trail just so that I can put a checkmark that I did that is not in plans. Thus, I'm also not interested in after market lifts, etc. That being said, I want to be able to go around another SUV that got stuck in the snow... well, maybe I'll also pull him out if I feel generous :)


I'm ok working the 6sp in traffic - that's what I got right now (and for the last 20 years)... but that's going to have to change, unfortunately, as nothing that would work for me comes with manual anymore


Xterra is a direct competitor to FJ, which Toyota has discontinued last year. They are virtually identical in all the specs and capabilities. Stock, X is not match to Wrangler, and especially Rubicon. When properly fitted, I've seen Off-Road editions do some crazy stuff on the trail.

I haven't looked at the Nissan XTerra for a while but when I did I recall it had a smaller cargo space than the Jeep Wrangler and the FJ Cruiser. Looking today at the Nissan site I don't get any specs but it does appear to have a locking rear differential. The wheel base looks shorter than an FJ, but it may be just my perception. That short wheel base may be an advantage for some rugged trails.

I'm not climbing the Rubicon Trail either. But I do some of the intermediate off-road trails with friends, make stream crossings and a bit of mild rock crawling to get into some of the desert canyons I like to explore. I need to take car camping gear so the smaller Xterra and FJ did not fit my needs. The Wrangler is a stretch in that regard.

The FJ Cruiser has the same wheel base, engine, transmission and 4x4 drive system as the 4Runner. The 4Runner achieves higher cargo volume by extending the back end beyond the seats farther. That allows room for a 3rd row of seats. It still has better approach and departure angles than the JGC.

Even with two grandchildren I'm not interested in the 3rd row seat but I realize you may be with your growing family. I'm more interested in cargo space. The T4R Trail Edition has less low hanging body trim than the Limited, the better 4x4 drive train and locking rear differential. The T4R TE drive train will get you out of those Colorado muddy stream crossings when you go fishing.

My 1995 Jeep GC with 215,000 miles has had very few problems. It's dependable and easy to work on when things do need repair. Just a few years later the Jeep GC got a lot more complicated and expensive to repair. Now the system complexity, reliability ratings and low resale value make it an expensive vehicle to own.

I read all of the posts here, including your replies and preferences. Good luck with your decision, whatever it may be.
 

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