2016 Honda Pilot
- Thread starter NoDak
- Start date
Thai
Elite Member
Well, the prior Pilot had two major issues:
1. VCM noise (well, that is minor issue since reliability not affected; but bothersome).
2. Pics are worth a thousand words: Vehicle details
Thai
Elite Member
But...why?! Why would anyone do that to a Pilot or MDX? The vehicle is not made for off-road mods. Yeah, you can lift IFS/IRS, but then have no wheel travel. In addition, CV boots will leak like hell! Then you have to consider dropping diff. And so on.
If i want a vehicle that can do significant off-roading, then i get one that can do such. I am not going to buy an Accord on heels and mod it to do that. You're just asking for reliability and durability issues. And if i am off-roading somewhere far from civilization, then durability is the last thing that i want to screw around with!
This is equivalent to slamming down a Wrangler so that it can drive on the track.
IMHO, this is a case of more $$ than brains...again, just my opinion.
Paisano
New member
Well, the prior Pilot had two major issues:
1. VCM noise (well, that is minor issue since reliability not affected; but bothersome).
2. Pics are worth a thousand words: Vehicle details
Crap - that new quarter onset frontal crash test, or whatever they call it is revealing. Makes me scared for the people I know that drive that gen.
Thai
Elite Member
It is an eye opener, isn't it?!!
Yeah the 5th gen mid-cycle refresh small-offset crash test is very disappointing...because Toyota knew about this crash test and fail to properly reinforce it for better protection with the mid-cycle refresh.
All of this brings to light what happened to the old lady who was hit by Bruce Jenner and then she crashed into a Hummer H2. It was an offset crash i believe...now whether she would survive in a more modern Lexus i do not know, but all my new cars will be thoroughly analyzed thru these crash test sites from now on!
Thai
Elite Member
Probably depending on brand and quality. Most do not...actually, from searching IIHS, i have not seen one that shatters. Some fall off the car...so, one the picture after tests, you do not see the rim/tire.
1engineer
Moderator
Yet listen to many whiners in the 5th Gen section wishing for an 8-9 speed and talking about the ancient 5 speed we currently have. They have no concept of anything other than "I am special and I want it all and I want it now."
Thai
Elite Member
Two videos:
4runner:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/q70jNH-FnVY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
I got dips on that front control arms!!!
Pilot:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/8SPBd108Sfc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
4runner:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/q70jNH-FnVY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
I got dips on that front control arms!!!
Pilot:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/8SPBd108Sfc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
NoDak
Senior Member
1engineer
Moderator
is that a line from Veruca Salt from "willy wonka"
Partial line from the rock group Queen. I Want It All
LandCruiser
New member
Does it come with a storage compartment for the driver's balls, or do those just stay in the wife's purse?
Sorry, I think crossovers should be killed with fire.
...or nuked from orbit.
Sorry, I think crossovers should be killed with fire.
...or nuked from orbit.
Thai
Elite Member
All crossovers? You mean that you prefer some of us (with no off-roading intentions currently) to either:
1. drive a BOF SUV with high clearances to the mall/soccer game and back?
2. drive a minivan?
I have a minivan. However, there are a few good reasons for cross-overs like my MDX:
1. Practical...not as much as minivan, but far better than most BOF SUVs.
2. Fuel economy...pretty much beats all BOF SUV and minivan when you factor in my AWD system.
3. High enough for snow (aka all-weather)...and see over traffic...and don't forget, being higher off the ground helps in crash against other bigger trucks/SUVs...see recent Bruce Jenner's crash.
4. Run many circles around ANY BOF SUV and minivan on-pavement; so, it allows some good handling/performance (esp my SH-AWD system) in a package that is still practical for my 3 kids.
Do i still love my Sienna? Oh yeah! Notice how i traded away all cars...but my Sienna stays. On long trips, my Sienna is king. But for short runs or daily driving, my MDX is more than enough...while not feeling like i am driving a big boat.
Conclusion: my MDX provides practicality, good handling/performance, luxury, efficiency, safety, and all-weather driving that you won't get from a minivan or a BOF SUV or a car.
LandCruiser
New member
Because every SUV is now a crossover.
And crossovers aren't good at anything, they are compromises to give "car like ride and handling" to SUV/minivan sized vehicles.
-GVWR sucks and they all squat and spread their rear tires if you try to put people and stuff in them
-can't tow worth shit (sure they have tow ratings that can reach 6k pounds but the soft rear springs and wimpy transmissions make for uninspiring/scary handling when towing at the limit)
-they're high up and heavy, they don't handle any better than modern BOF SUVs of similar weight, why are you driving a 5500 pound pig aggressively, anyway
-much less room than a minivan, somewhat more room than a BOF vehicle isn't that great of a selling point because of the GVWR issue means you can't haul that much, anyway
-FWD derived AWD systems are best suited to rain and the odd patch of ice. Get bogged down in mud and deep snow, car/van tires and IFS all around, no low range, no real diffs and large curb weight means you'll get stuck in no time
-most are car/minivan based, so they have tall rooflines, but you sit near the floor like in a car
-power to weight ratios suck and most use engines that don't generate lots of low end torque like the truck engines BOF SUVs use
-no skid plates, fragile underbits can be gutted by a tire carcass at 60mph
-car manufacturers are killing/converting BOF vehicles to make more of these monstrosities
If I lived in Florida and just wanted a kid taxi, this would do.
I wouldn't trust any of these in the mountains or to tow/haul anything serious.
And crossovers aren't good at anything, they are compromises to give "car like ride and handling" to SUV/minivan sized vehicles.
-GVWR sucks and they all squat and spread their rear tires if you try to put people and stuff in them
-can't tow worth shit (sure they have tow ratings that can reach 6k pounds but the soft rear springs and wimpy transmissions make for uninspiring/scary handling when towing at the limit)
-they're high up and heavy, they don't handle any better than modern BOF SUVs of similar weight, why are you driving a 5500 pound pig aggressively, anyway
-much less room than a minivan, somewhat more room than a BOF vehicle isn't that great of a selling point because of the GVWR issue means you can't haul that much, anyway
-FWD derived AWD systems are best suited to rain and the odd patch of ice. Get bogged down in mud and deep snow, car/van tires and IFS all around, no low range, no real diffs and large curb weight means you'll get stuck in no time
-most are car/minivan based, so they have tall rooflines, but you sit near the floor like in a car
-power to weight ratios suck and most use engines that don't generate lots of low end torque like the truck engines BOF SUVs use
-no skid plates, fragile underbits can be gutted by a tire carcass at 60mph
-car manufacturers are killing/converting BOF vehicles to make more of these monstrosities
If I lived in Florida and just wanted a kid taxi, this would do.
I wouldn't trust any of these in the mountains or to tow/haul anything serious.
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85straight
New member
So why do YOU care what other people buy and drive? Do you have a family or live in a area the a bof suv is just way overkill? Aaaanyways i bought my wife a new crv last year, we have 1 child so it fits the bill perfectly for what we need. But i must say we considered the pilot but found it to be too big for the time being. Cosmetically the new pilot is acceptable in a market that is getting more and more "spaceship" like.the crash test posted is definatly an eye opener though
Thai
Elite Member
[MENTION=92049]LandCruiser[/MENTION], what 4runner / car do you have?
Good points...but:
- GVWR sucks and IRS squats...very true. I don't plan to tow. Minivan sags too. Didn't 4runner (3rd gen) notorious for sagging, even withOUT towing?
I get your point...but to be honest...IF i am towing (and needing GVWR), then 4runners are NOT my first choice...not my top 3 choices for that matter. Wimpy transmission? You think that you have an Allison tranny in your 4runner?
- My MDX can easily haul a UHaul trailer of decent size without breaking a sweat. Do you haul your trailer everywhere and everyday of the week?? I don't plan too. BUT, i do haul my kids and their stuff (e.g. strollers) and then grocery, etc.. The 2nd row floor being flat is a an amazing thing for kids to get into their seats or for me to get in there to strap them in. Don't curse at it until you experience it!
- I would bet that my MDX will kill your 4runner in most (if not all) weather conditions. Mudding? Not planning to off-road mine. Why do i need LO range? Large curb weight? My MDX weighs 4300 lbs...because it uses ultra-high-tensile steel, magnesium, and aluminum in over 65% of its body. An average 4runner weighs 4700 lbs.
- FWD-derived AWD sucks for SPORTS CARS. It makes very little difference in a SUV. BTW, you may want to read up on Acura's SH-AWD...i believe that it is the BEST AWD system on the market right now, bar none.
- Tall roofline, but sit low? No. Huh? So, you prefer LOW ROOFLINE and SIT LOW as in the 4runner???!!! My MDX and most others sit pretty high with good roofline. I have no idea what you're talking about here.
- Power to weight ratio suck? Seriously? HuH???? Of all things, you criticize crossovers for THIS?! Again, low end torque is plenty in most modern SUVs...i am pretty sure that my MDX will blow ANY 4runner away in highway passing, or 0-60, or 30-60, or 1/4 mile.
- Fragile underbits gutted by semi 18-wheeler tire carcass at 60? You think that the low hanging KDSS bits or your low hanging transfer case gonna survive? You think those tin-can skids will help you problem free from a tire carcass at 60 mph?? You do have IFS arms in front too, ya know!
- as for your last point, i agree. Sad. We agree on something at least.
What vehicle dominates Colorado mountains? 4runners? Xterra? Land Cruisers? ..... or is it the Subarus, Audis, and Acuras.........
One last point...here is my MDX crash test: http://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/vehicle/v/acura/mdx
The new Pilot will achieve the same. Check out the roof strength rating. Compare those ratings with 4runner or any BOF SUVs.
BTW, my MDX and Pilot are based on their own platform...not from a car nor minivan.
Good points...but:
- GVWR sucks and IRS squats...very true. I don't plan to tow. Minivan sags too. Didn't 4runner (3rd gen) notorious for sagging, even withOUT towing?
I get your point...but to be honest...IF i am towing (and needing GVWR), then 4runners are NOT my first choice...not my top 3 choices for that matter. Wimpy transmission? You think that you have an Allison tranny in your 4runner?- My MDX can easily haul a UHaul trailer of decent size without breaking a sweat. Do you haul your trailer everywhere and everyday of the week?? I don't plan too. BUT, i do haul my kids and their stuff (e.g. strollers) and then grocery, etc.. The 2nd row floor being flat is a an amazing thing for kids to get into their seats or for me to get in there to strap them in. Don't curse at it until you experience it!
- I would bet that my MDX will kill your 4runner in most (if not all) weather conditions. Mudding? Not planning to off-road mine. Why do i need LO range? Large curb weight? My MDX weighs 4300 lbs...because it uses ultra-high-tensile steel, magnesium, and aluminum in over 65% of its body. An average 4runner weighs 4700 lbs.
- FWD-derived AWD sucks for SPORTS CARS. It makes very little difference in a SUV. BTW, you may want to read up on Acura's SH-AWD...i believe that it is the BEST AWD system on the market right now, bar none.
- Tall roofline, but sit low? No. Huh? So, you prefer LOW ROOFLINE and SIT LOW as in the 4runner???!!! My MDX and most others sit pretty high with good roofline. I have no idea what you're talking about here.
- Power to weight ratio suck? Seriously? HuH???? Of all things, you criticize crossovers for THIS?! Again, low end torque is plenty in most modern SUVs...i am pretty sure that my MDX will blow ANY 4runner away in highway passing, or 0-60, or 30-60, or 1/4 mile.
- Fragile underbits gutted by semi 18-wheeler tire carcass at 60? You think that the low hanging KDSS bits or your low hanging transfer case gonna survive? You think those tin-can skids will help you problem free from a tire carcass at 60 mph?? You do have IFS arms in front too, ya know!
- as for your last point, i agree. Sad. We agree on something at least.
What vehicle dominates Colorado mountains? 4runners? Xterra? Land Cruisers? ..... or is it the Subarus, Audis, and Acuras.........
One last point...here is my MDX crash test: http://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/vehicle/v/acura/mdx
The new Pilot will achieve the same. Check out the roof strength rating. Compare those ratings with 4runner or any BOF SUVs.
BTW, my MDX and Pilot are based on their own platform...not from a car nor minivan.
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1engineer
Moderator
[MENTION=92049]LandCruiser[/MENTION], what 4runner / car do you have?
Good points...but:
- GVWR sucks and IRS squats...very true. I don't plan to tow. Minivan sags too. Didn't 4runner (3rd gen) notorious for sagging, even withOUT towing?
- My MDX can easily haul a UHaul trailer of decent size without breaking a sweat. Do you haul your trailer everywhere and everyday of the week?? I don't plan too. BUT, i do haul my kids and their stuff (e.g. strollers) and then grocery, etc.. The 2nd row floor being flat is a an amazing thing for kids to get into their seats or for me to get in there to strap them in. Don't curse at it until you experience it!
- I would bet that my MDX will kill your 4runner in most (if not all) weather conditions. Mudding? Not planning to off-road mine. Why do i need LO range? Large curb weight? My MDX weighs 4300 lbs...because it uses ultra-high-tensile steel, magnesium, and aluminum in over 65% of its body. An average 4runner weighs 4700 lbs.
- FWD-derived AWD sucks for SPORTS CARS. It makes very little difference in a SUV. BTW, you may want to read up on Acura's SH-AWD...i believe that it is the BEST AWD system on the market right now, bar none.
- Tall roofline, but sit low? No. Huh? So, you prefer LOW ROOFLINE and SIT LOW as in the 4runner???!!! My MDX and most others sit pretty high with good roofline. I have no idea what you're talking about here.
- Power to weight ratio suck? Seriously? HuH???? Of all things, you criticize crossovers for THIS?! Again, low end torque is plenty in most modern SUVs...i am pretty sure that my MDX will blow ANY 4runner away in highway passing, or 0-60, or 30-60, or 1/4 mile.
- Fragile underbits gutted by semi 18-wheeler tire carcass at 60? You think that the low hanging KDSS bits or your low hanging transfer case gonna survive? You think those tin-can skids will help you problem free from a tire carcass at 60 mph?? You do have IFS arms in front too, ya know!
- as for your last point, i agree. Sad. We agree on something at least.
What vehicle dominates Colorado mountains? 4runners? Xterra? Land Cruisers? ..... or is it the Subarus, Audis, and Acuras.........
One last point...here is my MDX crash test: Vehicle details
The new Pilot will achieve the same. Check out the roof strength rating. Compare those ratings with 4runner or any BOF SUVs.
BTW, my MDX and Pilot are based on their own platform...not from a car nor minivan.
Hey [MENTION=2]Thai[/MENTION] I notice you quote and use IIHS data quite a bit. I will not deny they have helped save lives and improved vehicle safety but you have to remember who they are funded by and what their benefactors do. The insurance business only exists to make money. As an engineer I really take exception to the new small offset crash test. Sure that scenario can happen in the real world but how often are you going to be involved in a head on collision and NEVER involve any part of the rest of the front end? I guess a crowbar could get dropped point first out of the sky too but I don't see any shielding for crowbar penetration in my vehicle's roof.
Bottom line is mass wins every time yet you never see those guys testing a Prius against a pickup truck at 35 mph. You see a Prius hitting a wall so only the mass of the Prius is applicable. Let a Tahoe hit a Prius at 35 and see what happens. If they really wanted to be fair they would take an average of all weights of vehicles on the road and use that mass against their test cars in a head on collision. They will never do it though why? Nobody would ever buy a small car again after viewing the results.
I just randomly picked the Prius and Tahoe as examples of different vehicle mass so nothing against either. Take the ratings with a grain of salt and remember nothing can break the laws of Physics.
If you really wanted to be safe and protect your loved ones from harm you would make sure they were in a heavy vehicle with a good crash rating. The masses have been conditioned to believe that because their little vehicle has a five star crash rating it is safe. Sorry. It only has five stars if it hits a wall or something comparable to it's size and mass or less. Here is a quick link from the IIHS: http://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/t/vehicle-size-and-weight/qanda
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