Thai
Elite Member
Also google: IIHS small overlap crash test on Pilot. Yikes.
2016 Taco
- Thread starter Nolarola
- Start date
Also google: IIHS small overlap crash test on Pilot. Yikes.
CookieRoe
Senior Member
Cool. I love the MDX, I just can't get over those LED headlights. Meh, I'm partial to the RX (my dad has one)
Thanks for the explanation! I was throwing the idea around of getting a Pilot (actually has USABLE third row seats), but after seeing this, NO WAY. (until Honda remedies this)
YIKES!!!!!!!! Nevermind, Honda needs to RE ENGINEER the damn frame.
Back on topic: I can't recall any Toyota engine having cylinder deactivation. Maybe they know the "cons" of having one and decided it's best to invest in Atkinson's cycle technology (Mazda Millenia comes to mind as does their Prius). They are also suspiciously avoiding forced induction in their line-up (nevermind Lexus or any overseas markets) of NA gasoline engines which is also interesting (frustrating to some).
I'm a typical Toyota customer, I'm all for long term reliability.
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Thai
Elite Member
Cool. I love the MDX, I just can't get over those LED headlights. Meh, I'm partial to the RX (my dad has one)
Thanks for the explanation! I was throwing the idea around of getting a Pilot (actually has USABLE third row seats), but after seeing this, NO WAY. (until Honda remedies this)
YIKES!!!!!!!! Nevermind, Honda needs to RE ENGINEER the damn frame.
Back on topic: I can't recall any Toyota engine having cylinder deactivation. Maybe they know the "cons" of having one and decided it's best to invest in Atkinson's cycle technology (Mazda Millenia comes to mind as does their Prius). They are also suspiciously avoiding forced induction in their line-up (nevermind Lexus or any overseas markets) of NA gasoline engines which is also interesting (frustrating to some).
I'm a typical Toyota customer, I'm all for long term reliability.
Those LEDs are beautiful at night though from driver's seat!
Noise and vibrations (in Pilot) are one thing...reliability is another. Annoyance is one thing, durability is another. Whether VCM can last a long time is still in the air, but i have not heard of any MECHANICAL (thus, durability/reliability) issue with VCM. And the latest Acuras has the latest version of VCM...Mercedes came out with VCM a few decades ago. Honestly, i am not a big fan of it (never been)...but i can tell you that my MDX gets pretty damn good mileage on the highway!
If i can get over 100k miles trouble-free, then i am good. As for re-engineering frame...keep in mind that this small offset-crash test has hobbled a few Toyota newcomers too! This small offset is very tough...it nearly destroyed 4runners too. See: Vehicle details (even 2015 4runners nor Corollas did not fare much better than Pilot.)
Toyota does not use cylinder de-activation...good for them IMO. But, they are starting to use TURBOs in their Lexus line-up...available in Lexus NX200t, and soon in IS200 etc. (And remember Supra Turbo?)
Someone with better knowledge can say more, but Atkinson's is NOT without fault. Atkinson has poor power down low (low RPMs) i think. Thus, Atkinson has NOT been popular until hybrids came along (which fits perfectly since electric power has tons of torque down low).
Whiplash Willy
New member
Even though the 2016 Tacoma's frame is made of stronger materials, and reinforced, sadly, they still kept it a C-Channel Frame...
CookieRoe
Senior Member
Those LEDs are beautiful at night though from driver's seat!
No doubt!!
Noise and vibrations (in Pilot) are one thing...reliability is another. Annoyance is one thing, durability is another. Whether VCM can last a long time is still in the air, but i have not heard of any MECHANICAL (thus, durability/reliability) issue with VCM. And the latest Acuras has the latest version of VCM...Mercedes came out with VCM a few decades ago. Honestly, i am not a big fan of it (never been)...but i can tell you that my MDX gets pretty damn good mileage on the highway!
Good points.
As for re-engineering frame...keep in mind that this small offset-crash test has hobbled a few Toyota newcomers too! This small offset is very tough...it nearly destroyed 4runners too. See: Vehicle details (even 2015 4runners nor Corollas did not fare much better than Pilot.)
That test is brutal, but will save lives. Toyotas are strong cars, no doubt they will "fix that". I was in an offset head-on in 1996. Demolished my Jeep and destroyed the other Oldsmobile, luckily I walked away from that one. Dude in the Olds didn't (airlifted, but lived)
Toyota does not use cylinder de-activation...good for them IMO. But, they are starting to use TURBOs in their Lexus line-up...available in Lexus NX200t, and soon in IS200 etc. (And remember Supra Turbo?)
don't forget the Celica All Trac Turbo!
Someone with better knowledge can say more, but Atkinson's is NOT without fault. Atkinson has poor power down low (low RPMs) i think. Thus, Atkinson has NOT been popular until hybrids came along (which fits perfectly since electric power has tons of torque down low).
I remember the Mazda used a supercharger to overcome the inherently weak engine. ............. if memory serves, they were supposed to do battle with Lexus under the spin-off company, "Amati".....
Answers in red.
Thai
Elite Member
Still a c-channel frame?
Toyota...
Very true...but that did not affect Tundra sales one bit...i doubt that many (if any!) customers know about boxed vs C-frame to begin with. Toyota did this to save cost and weight.
Thai
Elite Member
That's the thing...2015 4runners were facelifted with Toyota having full knowledge of this IIHS test!! This is why some Corolla owners are pissed! How can you re-design or facelift a vehicle with full knowledge of this crash test AND still blow it?! :shrug:
Subaru Outback in 2013 made an emergent minor facelift to address this crash test...and had a full redesign in 2015! THAT is dedication to safety.
Hint: Lexus division seems to be getting the dollars instead of Toyota...see 2015 Lexus CT200h...facelifted and did wonderful in small offset.
CookieRoe
Senior Member
but isn't one advantage to a C-frame that it's easier to repair as well as "work on". From what I understand, for example, if you want to install side steps, its more difficult to install on a boxed frame vs. a C-frame. Box frames are stronger, yes, but is a boxed frame really necessary on a mid sized truck (medium duty)???
Very true. I can't defend Toyota on that, I'd be ticked off as well. Like I mentioned, I trust they will FIX this, they usually are good about that. Regarding subis, its a shame more people don't know more of Subaru cars crash tests. I remember back in the 80/90s they did pretty terrible. They really turned it around. Anyway, people equate subis with all wheel drive and longevity (and reliability) but not so much safety.
On a personal note: Lately I like Honda cars more than Toyotas. However when it comes to SUVs, I only seriously look at Toyotas. (hence my 07 Civic....@170,000miles and 4Runner )
CookieRoe
Senior Member
OMG, that Runner got RIPPED apart. :jaw: yeah, Toyota better "get on it".
T4R2014
Elite Member
Nissan believed it was necessary on the current Frontier. As does Toyota, on the 4Runner and LC. The Hilux(overseas) uses a boxed frame. Toyota pickups sold in the US until 1995 came with fully boxed frame. The frame cost cutting started when they released the Tacoma. I'm guessing that Toyota's reason(as Thai stated) behind this was not only cost, but because the majority of customers never used the boxed frame to its potential to begin with, let alone were able to distinguish it from a c-channel.
I could be wrong, but larger trucks such as the Unimog use c-channels(please correct me if the Unimog uses a boxed frame!) on purpose because they intend for the vehicle's frame to flex over the terrain along with the suspension. However, I don't think that this is part of Toyota's reason to use a c-channel.
Btw, most side steps are attached to the body. Rock sliders are always attached to the frame. If I recall correctly, the FJ cruiser frame(fully boxed) came with pre-threaded holes in the frame for rock sliders. The only major downfall of a boxed frame is that they can hold moisture and rust from the inside out. Toyota can give it a fully boxed frame if they really want to.
CookieRoe
Senior Member
Side steps are attached to the body? Learn something new everyday.
Well, I think you nailed the reason. Cost cutting on Toyota.
Thai
Elite Member
I used to think this...and still do to some degree. But, today's metal are very strong. There are all types of metals...normal ones, high tensile, ultra-high tensile, etc.. Magnesium is used a lot nowadays to save weight. (You can tell that i did a little reading into MDX's structure!
) So, potentially, Toyota could be using ultra-high tensile steel reinforcement (for example) and thicker gauge C-frame and that may equate (or better?) a fully boxed frame of ordinary metal and ordinary gauge. Just my 101% guess.But by using C-frame (strong one), you save a lot on weight vs. a fully boxed one! And what is #1 thing to advertise these days for SUV and truck manufacturers?? Fuel economy! Imagine a 4wd Tacoma with the 3.5L V6 engine noted above getting maybe 18 mpg and 26 mpg. Drooling, no?
Toyota rep + Tacoma name + great fuel economy = Colorado (the truck, not state) can kiss my a$$!
Again, 101% guess by me...but Toyota is not THAT stupid to ruin a legend in this day and age with competition heating up! They do not want to do what Honda did to the Civic a few years back!
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T4R2014
Elite Member
If it's anything like the 3rd Gen or 5th Gen, you can take a peak under your 4th Gen(if it has side steps) and see how they attach.
Thai may be on to something here. Who knows.
2014 Warthog
New member
MattAK
New member
Of course now all your doing is making me want to go look
I'll save you some time.
:AK47: :flamethrwoer2: :redbrick: 2016 Taco :gun5: :lasercannon: :sniper:
i like
I like it. good to see an actual change from 2005 to now in design. I didnt like the boxy look of the 5th Gen 4Rs when they came out but they grew on me and i started liking them so much that i just got rid of my 09 tacoma for one. I think it will be a lot more different in person.
I like it. good to see an actual change from 2005 to now in design. I didnt like the boxy look of the 5th Gen 4Rs when they came out but they grew on me and i started liking them so much that i just got rid of my 09 tacoma for one. I think it will be a lot more different in person.
Lester Lugnut
New member
I have a Tacoma and hang out over there. It amazes me how often I see 10 people with the same reply in a thread. Not many read what has already been posted.
