2019 Blown PRO for Sales

[Jetboy]

PM me your cell number if you would...I am calling you the next time I need a vehicle! I just looked up used Lexus LX570's and the 2019 models with 10,000 miles (which compares to the year and miles on the 2019 supercharged Pro) is around $75,000-$80,000. I was having to go to 40,000 or more miles and back to 2015-2016 to get me to $50k or below! That may not matter to the OP, but as you can tell from my list, I always stick to the newer vehicles as I like to know how they have been treated in the time prior to me owning it! With that said, not everyone is like that so I see both sides for sure!

Prices have jumped recently on all used cars. So it's probably fair that you're looking pre-2016 at $50k in today's market.

I wouldn't have too much concern about miles or age - especially with a used LX570. They're mostly used as glorified minivans. I'd actually guess it'd be kinda hard to even find one that's been used offroad in a meaningful way if you tried. It's probably more likely that you'd find the 4lo actuator sticky from having never been used.

A very low mile used 4Runner with mods that was traded in throws up a lot more red flags to me than a 3 or 4 year old LX570 with 50k miles.

 

[EddieV4runnin]

I wouldn’t do it, we all know Superchargers will grenade the engine after 10k.

 

[jrandom]

I wouldn’t do it, we all know Superchargers will grenade the engine after 10k.

While maybe exaggerating a bit the only thing I would consider getting with a SC is an older 5VZ-FE 3rd gen

50k for the "PRO" the OP's looking at, noway, so many other things, like mentioned a LX or an LC easily had for that price, and for one why did someone sell the PRO to begin with?

 

[TrailRunnin14]

I wouldn’t do it, we all know Superchargers will grenade the engine after 10k.

All of that forced induction!


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[VB.TRD.Pro]

I wouldn’t do it, we all know Superchargers will grenade the engine after 10k.

That Pro still has 3k miles of life left. Better hurry!

 

[MIKE969]

I love how people comment on the side effects of a supercharger who don’t have one. Just because you can’t afford one doesn’t mean you should dog on it. Also the added power does not over power the brakes and steering capabilities. It makes the vehicle more enjoyable to drive.


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Okay let's break down your logic:

a) You don't (can't) know until you experience. Yes, I'll be sure to reserve all judgement on crack until I start smokin’ that pipe. Right.
b) You know the income and net worth of every single 4runner owner and one can't afford a SC if one doesn't have one installed. Got it.
c) Reliability is not affected when you install a SC. Right, because the laws of physics don't apply to SCs or the 4runner.

Ok, here are the facts.

The 4runner (and all cars) have powertrain, suspension and brake components designed to operate within a specific range of power and torque. The stock engine output is 270HP, 278 lb-ft of torque, so all of these components are designed to withstand, at least, that amount of force. The stock suspension and braking systems are also designed to control and counter these stock outputs from a vehicle dynamics perspective.

Because the 4runner is generally very reliable in stock form, we can assume that most of these components are over-engineered and overbuilt, meaning they can handle more power and torque than the engine is capable of. How much more? That's the true question. It might be a lot, it might be just a little but you won't know unless you're the engineer who designed them. All these components form a "chain", and a chain is only as strong as its weakest link. You will eventually find out what that link is.

Even if every component can, by design, handle the added power and torque output of a SCd engine at full throttle, each component will wear faster. A SC will only DECREASE reliability and longevity. At a minimum, you're increasing the number of components, and by extension, potential failure modes. How much reliability is decreased and how much faster components will wear depends on:

- The quality of the components installed (SC kit)
- The competence of the mechanic that installed the components
- The engine/transmission tuning post installation
- How often the power and torque outputs of the engine exceeds it stock maximum outputs (how often you floor it)
- How durable the rest of the vehicle components are by design, as described above.

You can only control 1 variable, the gas pedal (which you probably won't be too gentle on if you're installing a SC). The rest is ultimately out of your control.

The decrease in reliability might be negligible, or it might be severe, but you will never know until something breaks. That might happen just around the corner of the dealership, or in the middle of nowhere in the desert, or even never. If the increase in power is worth that tradeoff to you, all the best. It's a free world, it's your money, knock your socks off. But the tradeoff is real, and inevitable. Pretending it’s not doesn't change the facts.

 

[TrailRunnin14]

Okay let's break down your logic:

a) You don't (can't) know until you experience. Yes, I'll be sure to reserve all judgement on crack until I start smokin’ that pipe. Right.
b) You know the income and net worth of every single 4runner owner and one can't afford a SC if one doesn't have one installed. Got it.
c) Reliability is not affected when you install a SC. Right, because the laws of physics don't apply to SCs or the 4runner.

Ok, here are the facts.

The 4runner (and all cars) have powertrain, suspension and brake components designed to operate within a specific range of power and torque. The stock engine output is 270HP, 278 lb-ft of torque, so all of these components are designed to withstand, at least, that amount of force. The stock suspension and braking systems are also designed to control and counter these stock outputs from a vehicle dynamics perspective.

Because the 4runner is generally very reliable in stock form, we can assume that most of these components are over-engineered and overbuilt, meaning they can handle more power and torque than the engine is capable of. How much more? That's the true question. It might be a lot, it might be just a little but you won't know unless you're the engineer who designed them. All these components form a "chain", and a chain is only as strong as its weakest link. You will eventually find out what that link is.

Even if every component can, by design, handle the added power and torque output of a SCd engine at full throttle, each component will wear faster. A SC will only DECREASE reliability and longevity. At a minimum, you're increasing the number of components, and by extension, potential failure modes. How much reliability is decreased and how much faster components will wear depends on:

- The quality of the components installed (SC kit)
- The competence of the mechanic that installed the components
- The engine/transmission tuning post installation
- How often the power and torque outputs of the engine exceeds it stock maximum outputs (how often you floor it)
- How durable the rest of the vehicle components are by design, as described above.

You can only control 1 variable, the gas pedal (which you probably won't be too gentle on if you're installing a SC). The rest is ultimately out of your control.

The decrease in reliability might be negligible, or it might be severe, but you will never know until something breaks. That might happen just around the corner of the dealership, or in the middle of nowhere in the desert, or even never. If the increase in power is worth that tradeoff to you, all the best. It's a free world, it's your money, knock your socks off. But the tradeoff is real, and inevitable. Pretending it’s not doesn't change the facts.

Like all things in life, time will tell.


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[MIKE969]

Like all things in life, time will tell.

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It will, and reliability will most likely be excellent still for most people. I sincerely wish everyone a long, trouble free 4R ownership experience, SC or stock.

 

[bamma]

A good condition 2017 Land Cruiser for that price would be in the 100k mile range. They run a long time, and I'd pick the Cruiser too, but the price for a low mile Cruiser will be a decent amount over $49k.

 

[02SE]

While maybe exaggerating a bit the only thing I would consider getting with a SC is an older 3VZ-FE 3rd gen

50k for the "PRO" the OP's looking at, noway, so many other things, like mentioned a LX or an LC easily had for that price, and for one why did someone sell the PRO to begin with?

I believe you're thinking of the 5VZ-FE.

 

[bamma]

While maybe exaggerating a bit the only thing I would consider getting with a SC is an older 3VZ-FE 3rd gen

50k for the "PRO" the OP's looking at, noway, so many other things, like mentioned a LX or an LC easily had for that price, and for one why did someone sell the PRO to begin with?

Not arguing per se, just curious, where are people finding a low mile LX or LC for $49k or less? Sure, the LX pre 2016 refresh maybe, but you are probably looking at closer to $60k for a 2016+ LX or Land Cruiser at under 50k miles. As others have seen on Mud, I have access to auction listing data, and even the low mile auction cruisers aren't selling for under $50k unless you are super lucky, or they need repairs, but there are very few cruisers as it is. I will say I did get lucky with the purchase of my 30k mile 16 cruiser last year at $53k, and if you can find a similar one, go for it. I was able to knock the seller down partially because he was a retired NBA player and didn't care (received a free car with his new job or he would have just traded in) and partially because one rear entertainment screen was broken and the Toyota list price is $7k so I talked him down(got one from a Mud member for $200 thankfully). I couldn't find another sold listing that cheap in over a year of looking nationwide unless it had been wrecked or was super rusty, both non-starters for me. I only pulled the trigger because of the price, as my 2011 Land Cruiser didn't need to be upgraded.

Dollar for dollar, a 4Runner will hold its value better than a Cruiser. I own both, and both are great vehicles. I always lean Cruiser, and own 3, but you have to pay a premium for one.

The other thing to keep in mind, as well built as Cruisers are, they have a few common failure points that the 4Runner does not seem to have. Pre 18 Cruisers all have the radiators fail around 100k miles, the water pump and starter (PITA to change) are close behind. Then there is the valley coolant leak as well as the cam tower leak (more prevalent on Alabama built Tundra motors than the Japanese counterpart put in the Cruiser, but it still happens). I've personally owned two 200 series Cruisers and two 5th Gen 4Runners. The 2012 4Runner had one lock actuator go bad, and no other issues other than the damn airbag, and Toyota did not take care of me well on that, but that is a whole other story. The 2011 Land Cruiser had the water pump and radiator replaced. The 2020 4Runner is new so no issues, the Cruiser had a idle pully go bad at 33k miles. Other than that no issues, but I know the radiator will have to be replaced at some point due to a faulty design that causes the top of the radiator to crack.

For general use, especially on road with no armor, I'd say the 4Runner is actually more reliable. Getting off-road, the Cruiser is definitely stronger and less prone to off-road caused mechanical failures and the motor will do better with armor than the 4R.

 

[Friggin Idiot]

Take into consideration your needs and what you did and didn't like about the 4Runner before it met its untimely end. Did you feel like you needed more power? Was the acceleration sluggish? Did you ever go read the SC threads on here before or after the SC Pro was an option? Do you tow on hot days in terrain?
Sure you can consider longevity, but how long are you going to keep your next vehicle (SC Pro, LC, GX, whatever) before you think about moving on? Is there anything you decided you'd want instead of the 4Runner? Are such vehicles available and within your budget? All of these need answered before you even get to the question of price, value of modifications, and whether or not the SC Pro is truly an option.
Yes, adding a SC is a lot of money. The Magnuson kit is more mild than the URD/Whipple kit and didn't require replacing any of the fuel system. It also required flashing the ECU instead of using a piggy-back ECU. For long term reliability I'd put the Magnuson kit ahead of the URD/Whipple, yet it's the URD/Whipple kit that I have on my truck. IIRC the Magnuson will also run on regular fuel instead of "the highest octane available" for the URD/Whipple (mine gets fed BP's 93).
While I decided the SC was a viable option for me, it was an easier pill to swallow than starting over on payments and modifications. OP has the option to choose a different vehicle with 8 cylinders and/or more gears in the tranny. These are things I was very interested in, but at the time were not significantly different enough to create a fuel mileage gap to make the switch appealing. $50k is no small amount, and at that price point very few are willing to make sacrifices for what they want.
Have you test driven a 20+ T4R with all the electronic gadgets and nanny "features"? Are they things you consider features or additional systems which are going to increase the long term ownership cost with issues and repairs which would not be required on a pre-20? Personally I'm not a fan, but I drive my vehicle not my phone while on the road. I also enjoyed the more simple rough & rugged appeal of the 4Runner, where even the Limited models were too much gadgetry. Each of these are things that OP should consider, and it's a personal choice. I hope he's the more typical 4Runner driver on the forums who may be distracted by shiny, but not swayed by it. OP, I also wouldn't let anyone rush the decision. If they sell that SC Pro, then let them. Sure they're not commonplace, but you can at least make one if it's truly what you want. Better to take your time and spend money where it is most important to you, on what you want and need.

 

[jrandom]

Well deserved criticism for hastily replying

I believe you're thinking of the 5VZ-FE.

Yes that is exactly what engine I was referring too, apart from having a timing belt, my limited experience with them has been really good.

Not arguing per se, just curious, where are people finding a low mile LX or LC for $49k or less? Sure, the LX pre 2016 refresh maybe, but you are probably looking at closer to $60k for a 2016+ LX or Land Cruiser at under 50k miles.

Only clarifying my brain fog post, around these parts there are bunches of late-model Lexus available with low-med mileage, also consider our cost of living is also ~roughly 25% less than where you live, of course understanding that doesn’t mean that used cars are 25% less but they are cheaper, else they don’t sell or get shipped abroad. Land cruisers on the other hand, yes, you are looking at a much older model year for that rate, and as you mentioned, apart from known issues, will run nearly indefinitely. So it is really all a weight of averages.

So my point was only that for that amount of money you can get a stronger engine and reliability, versus god knows what with who built and how was it ran.

Yes, I agree, a new stock/base 4runner is a very cost effective solution by any measure of comparison to other new Lexus or LC lines. The assumption of mine was OP wanted more power, I just think there is a better way to get it, that’s all

 

[ForRun]

I wouldn’t wait. In my area I've seen dads walk in and buy their 16 yr old loaded whatever they wanted without even negotiating. Someone will buy it and not even blink an eye. I've not shopped lately but know that pros hold value.

 

[chcg12]

I asked this on another thread, but i think you're right. i have a contact that i can get the pro for $1,000 under MSRP..just trying to figure if i should pull the trigger or wait for redesign..also wonder if the new generation will cause the 5th gen to lose value..or maybe they will still maintain..thoughts ? Thanks

 

[ForRun]

I asked this on another thread, but i think you're right. i have a contact that i can get the pro for $1,000 under MSRP..just trying to figure if i should pull the trigger or wait for redesign..also wonder if the new generation will cause the 5th gen to lose value..or maybe they will still maintain..thoughts ? Thanks

Toyota is pretty tight lipped on what the future holds. What if the redesign turns into a green gutless ride uni-body and lower ground clearance the 5th gen will sky rocket in resale. If the next gen is packed with a V8 and Lexus comforts, history of the 4runner has held value on older gens.
Go with your gut. If you can swing it go for the Pro now, if you have doubts, wait. good luck

 

[maxp0wer]

Seems like a decent price if you want the SC. IMO, 2019 is a good year, since you get the Fox suspension, but no TSS. Sure, car play would be nice but is that worth more than a SC??

 

[EddieV4runnin]

While maybe exaggerating a bit the only thing I would consider getting with a SC is an older 5VZ-FE 3rd gen

50k for the "PRO" the OP's looking at, noway, so many other things, like mentioned a LX or an LC easily had for that price, and for one why did someone sell the PRO to begin with?

I know those are great motors, but I don’t get why so many with 5th gens dislike the Supercharger. Realistically the reliability of the 1GR like that of any other motor will go downhill if you beat on it and don’t maintain it. I’m supercharged and it’s made the experience of going over mountain passes an enjoyable one. I think my next mod will be 4.56 gears, and even with the engine RPM being slightly higher at freeway speeds I doubt anything will down faster than a stock block.

 

[jrandom]

I know those are great motors, but I don’t get why so many with 5th gens dislike the Supercharger. Realistically the reliability of the 1GR like that of any other motor will go downhill if you beat on it and don’t maintain it. I’m supercharged and it’s made the experience of going over mountain passes an enjoyable one. I think my next mod will be 4.56 gears, and even with the engine RPM being slightly higher at freeway speeds I doubt anything will down faster than a stock block.

I don’t dislike them at all. The reason I mentioned the 5vz-fe is that you could get one oem (and it was like a third of the price) I am just not big on the 1gr-fe price tag, fuel requirements and this is minor? but what it seemingly takes to get it to calibrate/tuned, you have to add an additional (another expense) ECU? Maybe that isn’t as big a deal as it seems, from the little I have researched on the subject it seems that the way you can tune a Subaru is what you want, you can literally flash through the OBD port. Again, total noob when it comes to tuning/calibration. So please, correct/educate me.

Reliability, I would not feel comfortable buying a late model used truck with one (new off the lot, maybe) simply because of too many unknowns for that kind of price tag, would I by a third gen with one for a few thousand bucks? Sure! A 2019 for $50k nah, pass, unless I knew who owned it, installed it and how it was treated

I’m not opposed to supercharging, it would just be the last thing I did. I would opt to regear first. It’s easier, far less expensive, and you have range of options. You could literally swap out gears when you do a seasonal tire change. I guess you could swap boost pulleys the same way

 

[Jetboy]

I know those are great motors, but I don’t get why so many with 5th gens dislike the Supercharger. Realistically the reliability of the 1GR like that of any other motor will go downhill if you beat on it and don’t maintain it. I’m supercharged and it’s made the experience of going over mountain passes an enjoyable one. I think my next mod will be 4.56 gears, and even with the engine RPM being slightly higher at freeway speeds I doubt anything will down faster than a stock block.

The biggest issue I have is that they're $6k plus installation. For what you get - it's a lot of $ that may be better put toward a different vehicle. They were $4k list price when Toyota sold them and you could often get a better deal - like free labor to install - as part of a new car purchase. At $6k+ - at least for me the value proposition isn't there for me when I compare that to trading my '15 for a '15 LC200 that I could do for about $10k.

What the 4R really needs is a new transmission. A better transmission would go a long way toward making the stock 4Runner engine work a lot better. With and without the SC. So I've kinda been sitting waiting on the next gen Tundra to see if that's a good indication of the future of the 4Runner.