285/70/17 vs 285/75/17

[Jetboy]

Had a hard time finding any great pics of the difference when I was swapping tires. Thought it was worth making a thread just to show side by side. After going through a bit of issues with Toyo AT2's I decided to change to AT3's and go up one size. On paper AT2's are 32.8, the Cooper AT3's are 33.8, and the other tire in the image is a Cooper HT Plus in a 275 60 20 - and they are 33.01 height. On paper...

Keep in mind that the AT2 is about half worn out, so it's going to be smaller. IIRC that one has around 12-15k miles on it. The Coopers have about 10k on them (they wear a lot better per mile - but they're used for street driving mostly, so it's not really apples/apples).

I did have to do the body mount chop to fit the 285/75/17's. Not possible on mine without either a new lower control arm set, or cutting the body mount a little bit. The coopers are narrow for the stated width - okay by me. They're pretty true to height.

FWIW - it's not optical illusion here. The 275/60/20 Cooper is the widest tire of the bunch at the tread. The 285/70/17 Cooper is the narrowest tire overall and at the tread.

 

[LandCruiser]

It even varies within the tire size.

My 285/70/17 tires in terms of outer diameter when new

Destination MTs>KOs (gen 1)>Blizzaks.

 

[DesertCanyons]

285/70R17 tires vs 275/60R17

Thanks for the comparison photos. I just mounted Falken AT3W LT285/70R17 on 17x8.5" wheels. The truck got taller right away. Then I did the ICON 3" lift.

Now I need to raise the garage door by a couple of inches.

It's odd that 60% of 275 mm is wider than 70% of 285 mm.

 

[Jetboy]

I thought it was interesting that the narrowest tire label is the widest. Also btw all three are mounted and about 35psi. The 17 tires are both on 7.5 wide wheels and the 20s are 7.0 wide wheel.

Also the Cooper at3s lack rim protection in any meaningful way. The Toyo tires are really good. The HTplus street tires also have better rim protection.

 

[dweh54]

After going through a bit of issues with Toyo AT2's I decided to change to AT3's and go up one size.

Could you share what your issues were? I was considering this tire as a replacement because they get some love in the jeep world.

I am a fan of the 285/75r17. I had 315/70r17 Duratracs (12.7 inch wide tread) and hated how that wide tire behaved on a jeep that spent 90% of its time on road.

 

[Jetboy]

[MENTION=183417]dweh54[/MENTION] - long story short I went through 7 tires and couldn't get a set to balance - some would balance initially but then go out of round after a few miles. Some wouldn't balance at all - ever. Not even brand new with the sticker on them. They were out of balance by pounds of weight, not ounces. It was so bad that I bought the 20's you see above for street tires because I was just tired of the sawing steering wheel and vibrations.

My 4runner spends most of its miles on the streets and goes on a lot of long distance road trips. I live in SLC, Utah, which has a lot of great offroad areas within a day's drive, but almost none within an hour's drive. So I end up doing a lot of long distance highway to and from. Last year I went from Utah to Yosemite, Lake Tahoe twice, Moab 3 times, Ouray/Telluride, Colorado, Montana, and Great Basin National Park in Nevada. The 20's are fine for moderate trails like Blackbear/Imogene pass. I didn't think too hard about running around those on street tires. But they're not great for going much harder than that. And they're not very good for going fast on rough roads because you can't air down that far without risking a pinch flat. I think the AT3's will be pretty good for mixed use. But it's too early to tell. What I can say is that they're balanced!!! and run smooth and quiet on the highway. And they're on the more street use side of ATs.

Here's a bit more details about it. http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/153173-5th-gen-wheel-tire-thread-32.html#post2901757

Other than the balance I liked the AT2s generally. Good traction offroad. Quiet on the street. Durable. But if you're going to go with an AT instead of an MT I think balancing is kinda important.

 

[TravelWest01]

285 75 17 Are BIG

Had run 285 70 17 for a few years before went up to the 75s. Big difference, had to do a lot of trimming. I do like the off-road performance, but 75s are really pushing it.

 

[DesertCanyons]

Hunter Road Force balance

[MENTION=183417]dweh54[/MENTION] - long story short I went through 7 tires and couldn't get a set to balance - some would balance initially but then go out of round after a few miles. Some wouldn't balance at all - ever. Not even brand new with the sticker on them. They were out of balance by pounds of weight, not ounces. It was so bad that I bought the 20's you see above for street tires because I was just tired of the sawing steering wheel and vibrations.

...

Here's a bit more details about it. http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/153173-5th-gen-wheel-tire-thread-32.html#post2901757

Other than the balance I liked the AT2s generally. Good traction offroad. Quiet on the street. Durable. But if you're going to go with an AT instead of an MT I think balancing is kinda important.

Did you find a Hunter Road Force balancing machine? With my Falken AT3W Wildpeak LT285/70R17 on 17x8.5" wheels the first shop could not balance them. The cheapo machine kept signaling to add weight, then subtract weight. I stood and talked to the guy the whole time he was mounting the tires and installing the TPMS sensors. We had a good conversation about tires, family and stuff. But when it came to balancing those big tires he couldn't get it right and finally admitted that the machine was not up to the task. He actually told me there was shop up the street that had the Hunter Road Force machine. I went there and paid $100 for 5 wheels and was glad I did. I got a $50 break from the first shop on the balance so the better balance cost me $50 extra. You'll pay that much or more for that kind of balance.

The Hunter Road Force finds the out of round spot for both the tire and wheel and places a mark where the two should be lined up to optimize the balance. The shop then deflates the tire to break the seal and moves the tire on the rim to line up those points. Then they inflate the tire and spin it again to find the weights required to balance the wheel and tire.

For a bit more info do a search for Hunter and see the machine for yourself.

 

[JSparky]

Good to know, thanks for sharing. My 33's are looking a little small with the height I'm at so I'll probably be bumping up to 34's on my next set. Already chopped the body mounts so hopefully won't have to do anything else major to fit them.

 

[Jetboy]

Did you find a Hunter Road Force balancing machine? With my Falken AT3W Wildpeak LT285/70R17 on 17x8.5" wheels the first shop could not balance them. The cheapo machine kept signaling to add weight, then subtract weight. I stood and talked to the guy the whole time he was mounting the tires and installing the TPMS sensors. We had a good conversation about tires, family and stuff. But when it came to balancing those big tires he couldn't get it right and finally admitted that the machine was not up to the task. He actually told me there was shop up the street that had the Hunter Road Force machine. I went there and paid $100 for 5 wheels and was glad I did. I got a $50 break from the first shop on the balance so the better balance cost me $50 extra. You'll pay that much or more for that kind of balance.

The Hunter Road Force finds the out of round spot for both the tire and wheel and places a mark where the two should be lined up to optimize the balance. The shop then deflates the tire to break the seal and moves the tire on the rim to line up those points. Then they inflate the tire and spin it again to find the weights required to balance the wheel and tire.

For a bit more info do a search for Hunter and see the machine for yourself.

Yeah. This was with a road force machine. They were calling for so much weight you have to layer two or three stacked layers of tape weights. That sn't going to ride well even if you do get the machine to zero. But we couldn't ever get close to zero in dynamic balance. They just aren't round. Did all the usual stuff like testing the wheel and trying to match the best position on the wheel. The wheels run true. And the bigger at3s balanced with no issues. The worst one has about 4 ounces total.

These were the p rated 285s. Maybe the LT Toyo are better?

 

[codyHTX]

It's odd that 60% of 275 mm is wider than 70% of 285 mm.

the 60% & 70% are used to calc sidewall height. the 285 and 275 are the mm description of tire width. but still interesting that a labeled 285 is narrower than 275

275/60/20 height = (275mm / 25.4mm/in *60% *2)+20in = 32.99"
285/70/17 height = (285mm / 25.4mm/in *70% *2)+17in = 32.71"

 

[Judd94]

I was gonna put Toyo AT2s P285/70R17 on mine but after seeing this I guess not. I don’t wanna be dealing with issues after they’re mounted up.

 

[Asugm13]

Nice!

Had a hard time finding any great pics of the difference when I was swapping tires. Thought it was worth making a thread just to show side by side. After going through a bit of issues with Toyo AT2's I decided to change to AT3's and go up one size. On paper AT2's are 32.8, the Cooper AT3's are 33.8, and the other tire in the image is a Cooper HT Plus in a 275 60 20 - and they are 33.01 height. On paper...

Keep in mind that the AT2 is about half worn out, so it's going to be smaller. IIRC that one has around 12-15k miles on it. The Coopers have about 10k on them (they wear a lot better per mile - but they're used for street driving mostly, so it's not really apples/apples).

I did have to do the body mount chop to fit the 285/75/17's. Not possible on mine without either a new lower control arm set, or cutting the body mount a little bit. The coopers are narrow for the stated width - okay by me. They're pretty true to height.

FWIW - it's not optical illusion here. The 275/60/20 Cooper is the widest tire of the bunch at the tread. The 285/70/17 Cooper is the narrowest tire overall and at the tread.

Going to do the same tire and size when my St Maxx are done.

Your 4runner is what I'm going for, low lift, big tire, low overall weight, daily driver and actually wheel it. Tire to lift ratio is perfect imo.

Not to get side tracked to much.... I know you have a hidden winch mount, did you make yours or go with someone's?

 

[Jetboy]

I was gonna put Toyo AT2s P285/70R17 on mine but after seeing this I guess not. I don’t wanna be dealing with issues after they’re mounted up.

If you go that size - I would highly recommend going with the LT version. I like the light weight of the P rated. There's no reason we need E rated tires. It's overkill. But maybe a C rated tire would be be great if they were available. BFG is making a C rated KO2 in this size. You should see a billion of them for sale used as soon as the JLs are rolling out in large numbers. It might be worth waiting and buying those.

I still think it may be fine to run P rated tires, but these simply didn't balance or stay balanced. My street tries are P rated again. I didn't hesitate to buy them. It may even be something weird like how the distributor handled them or that just this particular size and model has a bad set of molds or manufacturing tooling. I can't say for sure.

 

[Jetboy]

Going to do the same tire and size when my St Maxx are done.

Your 4runner is what I'm going for, low lift, big tire, low overall weight, daily driver and actually wheel it. Tire to lift ratio is perfect imo.

Not to get side tracked to much.... I know you have a hidden winch mount, did you make yours or go with someone's?

Thanks. It's kinda what I should be driving. In my dreams I'd be driving a LC200 with a supercharger and 40's. But this seems to be a good balance for me of budget, capability, and comfortable driving. I would probably have been just fine with 285 70 17s. I rarely go anywhere that the larger tire is necessary. I just felt like it was worth the size up since I run smaller street tires most of the time and more sidewall means potentially a softer ride on the rocky roads. If the AT3s were $300+ each, I'd probably have just gone with 285/70/17's again. (I had a credit for the value of the Toyos so I was paying for the difference from there.)

I might have gone for the ST Maxx if it were similarly priced. It's a tougher tire and probably better for people who do more offroad miles than me. They are remarkably quiet. My brother has them on his Tundra in a 285 75 18 - basically a narrow 35" tire. I was amazed when I drove it the first time. The ST Maxx in this size were something like $100 each more expensive.

I built my own hidden winch mount. It's very similar to most of the others. I would be inclined to probably buy one of the half-bumper winch mounts or build one. I've started doing some trails that are harder than I ever really thought I would when I did the winch mount. So I end up scraping the bumpers more than I though I would. I do have a new front bumper cover in my garage for whenever I end up selling it - because I found one locally as a new takeoff from someone putting on a full bumper for $150 and it's the same color. So that's my plan as of now. Just replace the plastic down the road. It's cheap even for a new one.

 

[Jetboy]

Good to know, thanks for sharing. My 33's are looking a little small with the height I'm at so I'll probably be bumping up to 34's on my next set. Already chopped the body mounts so hopefully won't have to do anything else major to fit them.

I think these run just a bit small. For example the ST Maxx in the same size is 34 tall and these list as 33.8. I was able to keep the full liner in place - but I did push the front on both sides a bit further in and cut a bit more bumper plastic along the bottoms where the normal trimming happens. I also had to heat the firewall side of the fender liner a tad bit to keep it from rubbing. I just heated it up and pushed it back to cool. No problem since then. No need for any work on the pinch weld or anything on the exterior. So it's pretty minor overall. Very minor compared to what it would take for 35's.

I haven't had a chance to fully flex the rear, so I don't know for sure about bump stop drops or not. Probably not, but I'll have to find out. I don't think the front needs anything else.

 

[Asugm13]

Update?

I think these run just a bit small. For example the ST Maxx in the same size is 34 tall and these list as 33.8. I was able to keep the full liner in place - but I did push the front on both sides a bit further in and cut a bit more bumper plastic along the bottoms where the normal trimming happens. I also had to heat the firewall side of the fender liner a tad bit to keep it from rubbing. I just heated it up and pushed it back to cool. No problem since then. No need for any work on the pinch weld or anything on the exterior. So it's pretty minor overall. Very minor compared to what it would take for 35's.

I haven't had a chance to fully flex the rear, so I don't know for sure about bump stop drops or not. Probably not, but I'll have to find out. I don't think the front needs anything else.

What is your initial impression with the 34s and stock gearing? MPG loss, drivability, and on/ off road improvement or negatives?

I know the At3's have pretty much no side wall but would it be worth the extra Lbs/$ of a different tire I.E. BFG Ko2 or Falken At3?

Figuring the weight would be evenly distributed into the sidewall and closer to rim area not just in the tread where it would effect power the most.

 

[Jetboy]

What is your initial impression with the 34s and stock gearing? MPG loss, drivability, and on/ off road improvement or negatives?

I know the At3's have pretty much no side wall but would it be worth the extra Lbs/$ of a different tire I.E. BFG Ko2 or Falken At3?

Figuring the weight would be evenly distributed into the sidewall and closer to rim area not just in the tread where it would effect power the most.

General thought is that they're just fine with stock gearing - as long as you keep your weight reasonable. Off road - I think the auto works fine with stock gearing. I have not ever thought I needed lower gears anywhere I can go in the 4Runner. On the trip to the Rubicon that was 3 part days of offroading and 1400 miles of highway I averaged 14.7mpg on the dash including all of the driving on and off road. That's about 16mpg corrected for tire height. Overall I'm happy with that.

Unloaded on the highway with the 285/75/17 I get about 17.5-18 on the dash. As compared to the 275/60/20's that are 33.0 tall and P rated - they get about 19.5 on the highway on average. So the extra inch of height and extra weight and rolling resistance translates to about 1-2mpg loss.

Where it's not very good is towing. With my small teardrop camp trailer I struggle to maintain highway speeds outside of 3rd gear. At 65mph it's okay. At 80mph - it's running in 3rd gear almost all the time up near 5k rpms. And it gets horrible mileage too.

If I could buy something less than 4.56 gears - I'd already have changed them. I think 4.56 is too low for 33" tires and good highway mileage. I would swap 4.30 gears tomorrow if I could or 4.10.

 

[mudmancrash]

285/75/17 First Impressions

Running 17x9 Fuel Hostage rims, -12mm offset/4.5 backspacing.

Went from:
285/70/17 Terra Grappler G2 32.5's P-rated (45 lbs)

• Quiet
• Decent mud/dirt traction
• Wondered if I should re-gear, felt sluggish
• Not happy with wet traction in heavy rain/standing water
• Not happy with snow traction

Went to:
285/75/17 Falken Wildpeak A/T3W 34's E-rated (65 lbs)
First impressions:

• Quiet, better ride quality
• No dirt/mud yet
• Not sure I need to re-gear (will wait and see)
• Better grip on wet pavement
• Much better grip on snow/ice

I am obviously pleased with the Falken's so far. Did NOT have to do a BMC -- kinda surprised by that -- but to fit the G2 285/70's we put in SPC UCA's with the right castor and did quite a bit of fender trimming up front. With the wider-than-stock wheels, the Falkens are measurably wider than the G2's on the same rims, despite what some online have said about them empirically being a slightly narrower tire in this size. On a side note, they fill the wheel wells much better.

I still have to adjust the lower links to correct the diff angles in the rear, given the height of the lift, although I knew they were already off before installing the Falkens. This will move the rear tires towards the rear somewhat.

On the re-gearing question, these new tires and the rear bumper should have made me feel like re-gearing was more needed than before. I did install an AFE air intake on the same day as installing the new tires, so that may have helped. Will have to pull a load and drive more...

 

[SpeedyKevin]

Running 17x9 Fuel Hostage rims, -12mm offset/4.5 backspacing.

Went from:
285/70/17 Terra Grappler G2 32.5's P-rated (45 lbs)

• Quiet
• Decent mud/dirt traction
• Wondered if I should re-gear, felt sluggish
• Not happy with wet traction in heavy rain/standing water
• Not happy with snow traction

Went to:
285/75/17 Falken Wildpeak A/T3W 34's E-rated (65 lbs)
First impressions:

• Quiet, better ride quality
• No dirt/mud yet
• Not sure I need to re-gear (will wait and see)
• Better grip on wet pavement
• Much better grip on snow/ice

I am obviously pleased with the Falken's so far. Did NOT have to do a BMC -- kinda surprised by that -- but to fit the G2 285/70's we put in SPC UCA's with the right castor and did quite a bit of fender trimming up front. With the wider-than-stock wheels, the Falkens are measurably wider than the G2's on the same rims, despite what some online have said about them empirically being a slightly narrower tire in this size. On a side note, they fill the wheel wells much better.

I still have to adjust the lower links to correct the diff angles in the rear, given the height of the lift, although I knew they were already off before installing the Falkens. This will move the rear tires towards the rear somewhat.

On the re-gearing question, these new tires and the rear bumper should have made me feel like re-gearing was more needed than before. I did install an AFE air intake on the same day as installing the new tires, so that may have helped. Will have to pull a load and drive more...

Are you able to fit the spare?