2nd Gen 4R is killing batteries . . . why?

T4R4ME

New member
So this probelm started about eight years ago when the 4R was three years old (its a '95). I went out to start it one day and it was a bit hard to start, almost like if something was draining the battery. If it would sit for just an hour or two, it would start fine, but overnight it would get harder and harder to start. Even after a long drive when it had time to fully charge the battery and then sitting overnight, it would be hard to start. Also, once it started doing that, if I were to put more of a strain on the electrical system - like in the rain with the wipers, lights, ac, stereo, and fogs on - everytime I came to a stop, I could see my voltage dropping and I had to turn off everything unnecessary (stereo and fogs) and put it in neutral and rev it up a little just to keep it going.
I got the vehicles electrical system checked out and everything was fine as I was told. Got the battery checked and it wouldn't hold a charge. I got a new battery and thought that would be the end of it.
Well, almost exactly a year later, it started doing the same thing. At the time, I was using DieHard (Sears) batteries. I thought the problem might be with the batteries, so I went with another brand. I heard good things about Optima batteries and wanted a Yellow Top. But, I couldn't afford the $150 or whatever they were back then, so decided to give Costco batteries a try. I heard that they were ok for the price and they have a good warranty. I took my losses with the DieHard and went with Costco.
Just about a year later, the same thing happens. So, I take that battery back to Costco and get it exchanged for a new one, no problem. At this same time, I'm also realizing that the probelm is not so much with the batteries, but with the 4R. So, I first take it to the guy that has done all of the electrical work on the 4R and he finds nothing except a slight drain from the headunit which was wired constant. He put that on a switched circuit and it took care of that drain. I also mentioned it to my mechanic who has a couple of these 2nd Gen 4Rs and knows them inside out. He took a look at the stock system and couldn't find anything that could be causing that.
Sure enough, a year later, same thing. So, by then I thought maybe I just have too many accessories for these smaller stock size batteries to handle. I finally got what I wanted, an Optima Yellow Top. That was three years ago. After it made it past one year and then two, I thought maybe probelm solved. But no, that one went out on me this week. The Yellow Top made it three years and didn't start to show problems in the same way as the others. It would start up fine, but over the last couple of weeks, I noticed my lights getting dimmer and dimmer, especially at a stop and the voltage getting lower. Finally, a couple of nights ago going through the In 'n Out drive-thru, it dropped so low, it couldn't even power the amp. I tried to condition the battery once I pulled it and then charge and it charges fine, it just won't hold a charge.
So, for now, its back to the cheap Costco batteries. Just because they're warranted for 100 months with a 36 month free replacement, they're fairly inexpensive and there is no hastle when returning one. I was tempted to get another Yellow Top since Costco has them now. They have an 84 month warranty on them with a 36 month free replacement. But I figured I'd go the cheap route for now.
So, after all that, any ideas what could be causing this? I've searched and can't find anything. Also asked a few knowledgable people, and they can't really give me an answer. I do have a fairly good amount of aftermarket electronics in there (stereo with one amp a sub and components in the doors, fogs, cb, scanner, alarm). But I wouldn't think that could cause the batteries to prematurely die.
Thanks!!!
 
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Well my immediate guess would be that your alternator but since it was checked out fine then i highly doubt it. That same thing was happening in our Celica, i went through 3 batteries in 3 years. i found out that a light in the cargo area wouldn't shut off so i cut it off and so far no problems. (BTW i use the ever start batteries from Wal-Mart, cheap but effective) It could also be other "constant" things, like a light or a radio.
 
gizmopt2002 said:
Well my immediate guess would be that your alternator but since it was checked out fine then i highly doubt it. That same thing was happening in our Celica, i went through 3 batteries in 3 years. i found out that a light in the cargo area wouldn't shut off so i cut it off and so far no problems. (BTW i use the ever start batteries from Wal-Mart, cheap but effective) It could also be other "constant" things, like a light or a radio.

Thats what I would think, but, on a new battery, it can sit for a week and start up fine. If it had a slow drain, after sitting for a couple of days, the battery should be dead. This isn't the case. The only time I have starting problems is when the battery just wont hold a charge anymore. This seems to be after a year or so with most batteries.
 
i am in the same boat with battery trouble. i have been at the 4 to 6 month interval though. the only thing i can think of is even though the alternator tested good last time, maybe its going bad. i read a recent article which i wish i could find, but in a nutshell it said that alternators go bad in the phases. and it can take a long time. i guess i will bite the bullet and just buy a new one. i have noticed my acceleration seems bogged down not sure if thats any relation. also i wondered if your battery meter on your dash moves when you use your turn signal> good luck
 
I am just going th throw my 2cents in here. If you are running alot of accessories like extra lights/fog lamps etc.. maybe your alt is your problem. Could be that your Alt is not strong enough to keep a good charge on it. Could possiby explain why when your driving at night in rain with all your accessories running that when you stop your alt is trying to recharge your battery to the best of it's capabilities while running at very low rpm. because you say that if you turn off some stuff and put in neutral and rev the engine and you can watch the volts rise. I think the reason when your driving down the highway and everything seems to work fine and when you come to a stop and things start to act weird is that at highway speeds or just below your rpms are much higher and causes the alt to charge faster. I say try a bigger alt. Or at worst you could throw a battery kill switch in there if you do not want to spend much more money.

On a side note I would start looking at bad/dirty grounds to body etc. bad/dirty grounds will drive a person insane!


-kv
 
kingvandal said:
I am just going th throw my 2cents in here. If you are running alot of accessories like extra lights/fog lamps etc.. maybe your alt is your problem. Could be that your Alt is not strong enough to keep a good charge on it. Could possiby explain why when your driving at night in rain with all your accessories running that when you stop your alt is trying to recharge your battery to the best of it's capabilities while running at very low rpm. because you say that if you turn off some stuff and put in neutral and rev the engine and you can watch the volts rise. I think the reason when your driving down the highway and everything seems to work fine and when you come to a stop and things start to act weird is that at highway speeds or just below your rpms are much higher and causes the alt to charge faster. I say try a bigger alt. Or at worst you could throw a battery kill switch in there if you do not want to spend much more money.

On a side note I would start looking at bad/dirty grounds to body etc. bad/dirty grounds will drive a person insane!


-kv

Damn, beat me to it.
The Toy alts don't have a very high output to begin with (60A on the early models), and an alts output varies w/RPM, full output being at high RPMs. Additionally, while your alt may test good, the brushes may be worn and it may not be operating at it's peak.

Also, if one of the diodes in the diode-trio is bad, it may be draining the batt when the engine is off, but still charging when running. (Hence it dies overnite.)
 
Also, if one of the diodes in the diode-trio is bad, it may be draining the batt when the engine is off, but still charging when running. (Hence it dies overnite.)

Nice. I just learned something new :) Thanks!
 
captwalker87 said:
You get an internally regulated alternator wet, bye bye charging system. I'm on my forth before I figured it out.

You must clean your engine compartment a lot. I make sure to cover mine up well before I do. Haven't had that issue yet.
 
Dead Battery club

Mine has the same prob - Works for a bit then the battery dies.. I am tempted to get a yellow top as well.

Argh..

I have to go get one in the morning..
 
i think i am back in the same boat, i replaced both battery and alt and last week the truck died again. my only hope is the alt that autozone sold me was bad. i will let you all know when i go back home again and change it out, as i plan to have it tested. and if that wasnt bad enough my jeep also went dead a couple of days ago, and all the people here at my condo didnt want to give me a jump...go figure, so i picked up a prestone jump it which i am very happy with.
 
got my new battery today

I had a new 90 buck battery installed today and it works fine now.. but I am going to ask my mech to find out how much if any the alt is putting out. In jeep world there is an alt company called Mean Green that put out higher output starters and alternators.

Does anyone know if there is other alternators in the toyota family that put out more oomph but still fit?

I have found Mean Green on the web and sent them an email asking them if they make one for my 1990..

jim
 
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this is not an attack on you personally, but i refuse to get a different alt then oem required. the truck was designed to work with that one, and it should. i want to get to the root of the problem and not delay another problem. i just dont get it, becaue the voltage regulator is built into the alternator right? so with a new alt and battery, no lights left on or anythign like that i should be good to go i would think. if i am missing somethign please let me know lol. thanks.
 
i thought i would throw this up too, i am thinking of selling it, not due to this, as i will fix before i sell, but i am going to alaska for 2 years and wont need a car because the village only has a few miles of paved roads, and doesnt go anywhere. oh yea and gas is over 4.25 a gallon
 
Alaska

There is a guy in Alaska that posts - his 4runner is blue and he really likes his up there.. the problem now is the permafrost is no longer staying frozen.. if I were going there - I would not hesitate taking a 4runner up there.. by the way - we pay 4.20 a gallon here in Vancouver. (cdn)

I found out that mean green does not have their alternators for 4runners on their website (have emailed them though) and also maybe the Tacoma or Landcruiser has one that puts out more amps - maybe even the old supra - and possibly that will work (higher amp)
 
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Re: got my new battery today

jimwww said:
I had a new 90 buck battery installed today and it works fine now.. but I am going to ask my mech to find out how much if any the alt is putting out. In jeep world there is an alt company called Mean Green that put out higher output starters and alternators.

Does anyone know if there is other alternators in the toyota family that put out more oomph but still fit?

I have found Mean Green on the web and sent them an email asking them if they make one for my 1990..

jim

Yep, Mean Green has them for our 4Rs, a bit pricey though. There are a couple of people on here running them I believe. One of these might work for you. Theres also Load Boss which seems to have good reviews. Or, you could do what I did and have it rebuilt with a h/o stator. I sent it to a place here in NorCal called Boyle Future Technology. I've heard good things from them on other forums. I spoke with them a couple of times and they were very knowledgable and helpful. I sent them my alternator and got it back in 2 days. I can't speak to the performance of it as I've only had it in a couple of days.

Originally posted by markdifferent
this is not an attack on you personally, but i refuse to get a different alt then oem required. the truck was designed to work with that one, and it should. i want to get to the root of the problem and not delay another problem. i just dont get it, becaue the voltage regulator is built into the alternator right? so with a new alt and battery, no lights left on or anythign like that i should be good to go i would think. if i am missing somethign please let me know lol. thanks.

You are correct, but it was also designed to work with the stock accessories. I'm not sure of your exact set-up. Through the years, I have added fog lights, a cb, scanner, alarm and audio system. All these things draw current from the alternator when the vehicle is running. I really notice the low alternator output at night when its raining (wipers, lights and a/c on) and I have the fogs and sound system on. It makes sense that the alternator is just not keeping up with all the electronics.
Also, doing the Big 3 upgrade is next on my list of things to do. That can only help things more. I am almost convinced that the combination of the h/o alternator, bigger battery and Big 3 will resolve my issues.
Good luck all. Hopefully we all get these issues resolved!!!
BTW markdifferent, whats your purpose of going to Alaska? You almost make it sound like you'll be out in the middle of nowhere. Thats a big change from Louisiana. Sounds fun for a little while, but 2 years is a long time. Hope you enjoy it!!!
 
i will be going to a remote village called bethel, as a travel nurse. this is as i said a 2 year assignment. i dont want the 1990 4 runner i have to just sit when i am gone, i may as well sell it and let someone else get a good deal on it as i did. also i get a limited ammount of weight allowed to ship there.
 
markdifferent said:
i will be going to a remote village called bethel, as a travel nurse. this is as i said a 2 year assignment. i dont want the 1990 4 runner i have to just sit when i am gone, i may as well sell it and let someone else get a good deal on it as i did. also i get a limited ammount of weight allowed to ship there.


From Wikipedia:

Bethel is a city located in Bethel Census Area in the U.S. state of Alaska, 340 miles (540 km) west of Anchorage. According to 2005 Census Bureau estimates, the population of the city was 6,262.

Bethel is the largest community in western Alaska and the 9th largest municipality in the state. It lies inside the Yukon Delta National Wildlife Refuge, the largest wildlife refuge in the United States. It is an administrative and transportation hub for the 56 villages in the Yukon-Kuskokwim Delta.

Bethel is home to the premier mid-distance dogsled race, the Kuskokwim 300. The "K300" is considered by many of the world's elite mushers to be the greatest sled-dog race in the world, even though other races receive more media attention. The K300 is so highly acclaimed because of the warmth and energy of the community volunteers, the dedication of the race's sponsors, and the high prize purse. In the spring, traditional dancers from all over Alaska and the world gather for Cam-ai (pronounced Cha-Mai) Dance Festival.

Though the region is flat and generally treeless, local residents enjoy snowmachineing, skiing, bicycling, kayaking, caribou hunting, salmon fishing, and access to the surrounding 56 villages in the Yukon-Kuskokwim Delta.

Precipitation averages 16 inches a year in this area, with snowfall of 50 inches. The average low in July is 49
 
If you know how long it takes to drain...ie 4 days. Then charge th it back up, pull out the main fuse or most of the reg. fuses and see if it still has a drain or dies in 4 days, usually just the radio/clock fuse is live 24/7, the rest should not be, if the battery is still dead after four days, then that area has a short, if the battery does not die, and you need to start all over again using the trial and error method with the other fuse block. If you have a amp draw meter you can see which fuse block is drawing juce when the car is not running and then follow the wires and work your way back to the fuse block.

good luck.
 

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