2wd Automatic to 4wd Manual Swap - Need some help/have some questions.

[TheManOutside]

Hello there!

First and foremost, NO, I am not/cannot sell my rig or trade to get a 4x4, so please don't even bring this up. Thanks

Alright, so, I have a 1997 2wd, automatic 3.4L 4runner. I am hoping to try and do a hefty conversion this summer - swapping out the transmission for a manual and adding front diff's to make it 4wd. I pretty much have the very basics covered, I just have a few questions and confirmations on a few things...

First of all - PARTS! I have a pretty fuzzy idea of the parts I need (hopefully I can find a donor truck and part it out, but they're hard to come by, so we'll see..). I've been reading up on a lot of others posts (found a transmission swap for a 2nd gen 4runner tutorial, shouldn't be that much different?)(ChildrenofBodom's amazing build thread)(ETC....), and so far....
here's what I think I'll need...

R150F Transmission (and T-Case, I have no idea which one though)
Front differential with matching gears to rear
Driveshafts, front and rear
Flywheel, pressure plate,pilot bearing, disc
Shifting assembly (not 100% what this is, is it just the actual shifter handles?)
Clutch Stuff (pedal, master cylinder, hydraulic cable etc.)
R150F 5VZ-FE Bellhousing (little confused on this but I think this is the correct part?)
4x4 Manual Engine ECU (Not sure what the part number is for the one I need)
5VZ Slave Cylinder
4WD Front Spindles and CV Axles
Wire harness to ECU.
VSV, canister, check valve, hoses, manifold for ADD.
LOTS OF TIME
:bounce:

Ok, I don't think I missed anything too important (I probably missed like half the things I need), if so, please help me out and let me know. I hope to get this project started pretty soon (within a month if possible), so any help at all is greatly appreciated! Also, I am not completely mechanically stupid, I've changed mufflers, helped my friend with new suspension, new brake stuff, etc. so I know this will be a HUGE step up as far as difficulty, but I believe I can do it, and I will (hopefully lol) be having help from multiple people.

I will post other responses if I have more questions (guaranteed I will).

I also plan to document this whole project and post it up here as I go through it, and build it almost as a instruction manual for other people that also want to do this conversion.

Thank you for taking the time to read this if you did. Again, ANY help is still help (whether it's just a tip or something major). Thank you!

 

[TheDurk]

Wire harness to ECU, engine and TC plus 4x4 relay.
VSV, canister, check valve, hoses, manifold for ADD vacuum system.


What are you going do do about gauge console?( 4x4 indicator). Do you want a Clutch switch?

With a manual ECU and harness, you still need to carefully study the truckside (non-engine) plugs (usually two) that will go into the new ECU from the body/chassis. They will likely NOT match up. Some wires will likely need to be repinned and possibly the connectors will need to be changed. This can be tedious, but needs done.You will need detailed EWD for both donor and your truck, with pin-outs. I've helped a couple people with this part.

 

[TheManOutside]

Wire harness to ECU.
VSV, canister, check valve, hoses, manifold for ADD.

Thank you! I have added this to the list in my first post. I think this is a good way to do it to eventually have the most complete list possible. Thank you again!

 

[TheManOutside]

What are you going do do about gauge console?( 4x4 indicator). Do you want a Clutch switch?

With a manual ECU and harness, you still need to carefully study the truckside (non-engine) plugs (usually two) that will go into the new ECU from the body/chassis. They will likely NOT match up. Some wires will likely need to be repinned and possibly the connectors will need to be changed. This can be tedious, but needs done.You will need detailed EWD for both donor and your truck, with pin-outs. I've helped a couple people with this part.

I was not really thinking about doing this swap to 100% exactly match the factory way, so for the 4X4 indicator I was thinking of just having a simple LED either in the dash or somewhere else (my gauge console doesn't have the PRND2L lights so I was thinking somewhere around where it's supposed to be could work) And by clutch switch do you mean a clutch start cancel switch? If so, no, I don't need it but if it's easy to install I might as well. Also, how do I know which truck side plugs are the ones you mentioned? So far, the only thing I'm worried about is wiring, and I have found an EWD for my truck that I will definitely be using. Thanks!

Also, what's a VSV? I can't find anything on Google.

 

[TheDurk]

Also, what's a VSV? I can't find anything on Google.

Vacuum Switching Valve. (It's a pair, one does 2wd, the other does 4wd). They sit on the driver's fender and take electric signals from the 4x4 relay and control the vacuum applied to the front diff actuator through two hoses. Get it from your donor truck; they are NOT cheap.

 

[TheManOutside]

Alright.. so now, the only things I'm really worried about is the wiring and making sure I have every required part. Based on my list, would you say it looks pretty complete? And for the wiring, would I need to switch out my wiring harness completely for the donor trucks harness or just make changes where needed on the current harness (such as the ECU for example)? Sorry for having endless questions (I have more, don't worry), I just wanna do this right the first time.

 

[02_SE_Runner_DAD]

Watching.

 

[TheDurk]

Alright.. so now, the only things I'm really worried about is the wiring and making sure I have every required part. Based on my list, would you say it looks pretty complete? And for the wiring, would I need to switch out my wiring harness completely for the donor trucks harness or just make changes where needed on the current harness (such as the ECU for example)? Sorry for having endless questions (I have more, don't worry), I just wanna do this right the first time.

Well, I haven't done one myself. I bought a 5-speed 4wd new in '99. I've just helped people with some wiring issues which is something I do on here. There are several good threads on here by those who have done both 4wd and 5-speed conversions.

Here is one to look at where I helped.

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/155303-possible-5-speed-swap-input-appreciated.html

Check the comments of others who had also done them and look for THEIR build threads. And of course, search. You have a lot of homework to do, and more after you find your donor.

I'd say a full harness swap is easier, as yours is missing a lot of functions and it would be harder to loom those in piece by piece. But again, study that when you have your donor and do what is easier. I might be wrong. Strongly recommend you find a 4wd 5-speed as donor, ideally your same year and engine, rather than mixing and matching. It will make your life much easier. The ECU evolved each year so the fewer changes involved the better. The more repinning the more chance for error, and it can be a beyotch tracking those down.

Good luck. There are lots of people on here who will help.

 

[TheManOutside]

I've been reading tons of threads and doing tons of homework, and I will definitely keep doing so until the project is completed. There is one build thread I read (by Jon (that's his username) I believe) where he swapped his automatic out, after it strawberry milkshaked, with a 5speed. He didn't do hardly any wiring so maybe I'm in luck, but then again I'm also adding 4wd. Thank you so much for your help so far, I will update this thread if I have any more questions.:thanks:

 

[TheDurk]

I've been reading tons of threads and doing tons of homework, and I will definitely keep doing so until the project is completed. There is one build thread I read (by Jon (that's his username) I believe) where he swapped his automatic out, after it strawberry milkshaked, with a 5speed. He didn't do hardly any wiring so maybe I'm in luck, but then again I'm also adding 4wd. Thank you so much for your help so far, I will update this thread if I have any more questions.:thanks:

Well, if you keep your existing ECU and use a j-shift type TC, you would really only have to wire up the ADD. Go to manual hubs, which the 3G 4Runner never had, you can skip that. Just need to by-pass the Park/Neutral switch that will go away and fudge a dash indicator, or live without it.

Thing is, you will have a CEL from the auto trans that is not there that you will never get rid of. You are in Kalifornia, so I would assume this is a non-starter for you. You'll never pass emissions (smog. in Kali-speak.)

I can't find a user named just Jon, they all have a last name and there's a dozen of them. But I bet he's from a non-emissions testing state.

 

[jmsdad]

I just did what you're planning to do...well, not quite complete yet....front 4WD components is not 'in' yet, but I don't foresee any problems putting them in. Check out my thread...


http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/193312-bought-another-3rd-gen-what-do.html



With yours being a 97 model year and living in CA, you will definitely need a manual harness/ECU (part # 89661-3D310) if you want to get pass emissions and still drive it around on the streets. For engine control, the cheaper and easier way to go is to buy the manual ECU and the four manual ECU connectors and re-pin the auto harness.

You can buy a one/two day suscription to TIS for the wiring diagrams, but if you can get your hands on the Toyota EWD manual ( I prefer this) for your truck, that's even better because everything electronic/wiring related will be at your fingertips. Check on ebay for the manual. I was able to get mine for $20shipped---money well spent.

If you haven't done anything like this before, you're in for a surprise....be it a learning/eye-opening experience or a worst nightmare. Like was stated, RE-SEARCH and READ and then READ some more and take notes. Make it your goal and lots of effort to see the project thru and in the end, you'll be rewarded. I know lots of folks who start on projects like these and never finish because they get tired out/lost motivation/interest along the way. I hope you're not one of those.

Good luck and READ!

 

[jmsdad]

Just need to by-pass the Park/Neutral switch that will go away and fudge a dash indicator, or live without it.

Durk....4WD dash indicator is there...wiring and all, just no bulb. To make it light up when the T-case lever is shifted to 4WD, just twist in a bulb and splice in one wire/ground the other from the T-case 4wd position sensor. Easy peasy.

 

[TheDurk]

I just did what you're planning to do...well, not quite complete yet....front 4WD components is not 'in' yet, but I don't foresee any problems putting them in. Check out my thread...


http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/193312-bought-another-3rd-gen-what-do.html



With yours being a 97 model year and living in CA, you will definitely need a manual harness/ECU (part # 89661-3D310) if you want to get pass emissions and still drive it around on the streets. For engine control, the cheaper and easier way to go is to buy the manual ECU and the four manual ECU connectors and re-pin the auto harness.

You can buy a one/two day suscription to TIS for the wiring diagrams, but if you can get your hands on the Toyota EWD manual ( I prefer this) for your truck, that's even better because everything electronic/wiring related will be at your fingertips. Check on ebay for the manual. I was able to get mine for $20shipped---money well spent.

If you haven't done anything like this before, you're in for a surprise....be it a learning/eye-opening experience or a worst nightmare. Like was stated, RE-SEARCH and READ and then READ some more and take notes. Make it your goal and lots of effort to see the project thru and in the end, you'll be rewarded. I know lots of folks who start on projects like these and never finish because they get tired out/lost motivation/interest along the way. I hope you're not one of those.

Good luck and READ!

Good post. I just wonder, is swapping all four connectors really easier than swapping the whole engine herness? As I said, I haven't done an auto to 5-speed, but I hate swapping big connectors. Lots of chances to screw up. Did you splice or pull the pins from the connectors?

EDIT: I looked at your thread. Wow, you swapped engines, too. Here is my answer:

Some notes....I was at pic-n-pull and looked at a 95 2wd toyota pickup with a 22RE. Two of the ECM connectors fit the 96 4Runner manual ECM so I cut that off and had to order the other two remaining connectors. I bought a 96 5speed ECM for $50 shipped and re-pinned the auto harness. With over 54 wires to re-pin, I made one mistake.... which was the camshaft sensor. I put it one space off ( in E7 #10 instead of E7 #11). I had a P0340 DTC right away and a solid check engine light. A little double-checking and I was able to find the mistake and get it squared away.

Good job to get only one wrong. And great work on the whole thing. Better you than me. But if you had the entire correct engine harness for that ECU available, would you have used it?

 

[jmsdad]

Good post. I just wonder, is swapping all four connectors really easier than swapping the whole engine herness? As I said, I haven't done an auto to 5-speed, but I hate swapping big connectors. Lots of chances to screw up. Did you splice or pull the pins from the connectors?

Cost and availability.

Try locating a used manual harness for a 4Runner. They're rare as most 4runners came with Auto trannys.

When swapping in the long block into the 96 4runner, I thought about putting in the manual harness/ECU from the 97 Tacoma parts truck but decided against it because some the wires although they had the same function had different color wires. Also I'll have to get it 'referee' as a 97 Tacoma. In the interest of simplicity and easier troubleshooting in the future, I decided to stick with the Auto harness and re-pin them instead.

No spicing at all. Pins were pulled from the 4row auto connectors and inserted into the appropriate locations on the 2row manual connectors hence the wire harness is not as organized/stream-lined as before.

 

[TheDurk]

Cost and availability.

Try locating a used manual harness for a 4Runner. They're rare as most 4runners came with Auto trannys.

When swapping in the long block into the 96 4runner, I thought about putting in the manual harness/ECU from the 97 Tacoma parts truck but decided against it because some the wires although they had the same function had different color wires. Also I'll have to get it 'referee' as a 97 Tacoma. In the interest of simplicity and easier troubleshooting in the future, I decided to stick with the Auto harness and re-pin them instead.

No spicing at all. Pins were pulled from the 4row auto connectors and inserted into the appropriate locations on the 2row manual connectors hence the wire harness is not as organized/stream-lined as before.

Yeah, that's my point. I'm saying the ideal for the OP here is to find a single donor truck, a 5-speed 4wd, same engine, of as close a year as possible, and score his trans, TC, bell/clutch parts, front drivetrain, ECU and harness in one fell swoop. He might spend a lot of time looking, but it makes the whole job a lot easier. He might even buy a whole wreck, and make money parting out the engine and lots of other stuff. And that way you are sure you get all the pieces and they fit together.

Did you upgrade shocks and springs? I know the 2wd are different p/n's. I don't know how important that is.

 

[TheManOutside]

Ok, so I think I pretty much have an idea of all the parts I will need. still a little confused on wiring, but I'll figure it out eventually. So, what I'm going to try and do is find either a salvaged/wrecked 4Runner or Tacoma (manual 4x4) as close to the year of mine as possible. How do I find the year btw? VIN #? If for whatever reason I can't get one my exact year, or I have to get a Tacoma, I can just buy a used ECU online and plug it in, correct?

Also, I'm interested in what jmsdad said about re-pinning the connector of my current harness. This seems like a much easier way to do the wiring as opposed to re-wiring EVERYTHING.

And I completely forgot about Cali-dumb laws-ifornias emissions stuff. I can pass if I just get a new ECU, right? I don't see why I shouldn't pass but then again... California.

One last thing - is there any welding or fab work required? I remember reading somewhere that the crossmember has to be moved up about 8" and that id have to fab front diff holders or something. Is this true?

 

[TheDurk]

Ok, so I think I pretty much have an idea of all the parts I will need. still a little confused on wiring, but I'll figure it out eventually. So, what I'm going to try and do is find either a salvaged/wrecked 4Runner or Tacoma (manual 4x4) as close to the year of mine as possible. How do I find the year btw? VIN #? If for whatever reason I can't get one my exact year, or I have to get a Tacoma, I can just buy a used ECU online and plug it in, correct?

Also, I'm interested in what jmsdad said about re-pinning the connector of my current harness. This seems like a much easier way to do the wiring as opposed to re-wiring EVERYTHING.

And I completely forgot about Cali-dumb laws-ifornias emissions stuff. I can pass if I just get a new ECU, right? I don't see why I shouldn't pass but then again... California.

One last thing - is there any welding or fab work required? I remember reading somewhere that the crossmember has to be moved up about 8" and that id have to fab front diff holders or something. Is this true?

Much easier? Say that again after you re-pin 54 wires in four connectors. But that's a call you can make when you find your donor. In the meantime, here is a present, you're going to need it:

http://wilbo666.pbworks.com/w/file/fetch/48443657/Wire%20Harness%20Repair%20Manual%20%28RM1022E%29.pdf

 

[TheManOutside]

Much easier? Say that again after you re-pin 54 wires in four connectors. But that's a call you can make when you find your donor. In the meantime, here is a present, you're going to need it:

http://wilbo666.pbworks.com/w/file/fetch/48443657/Wire%20Harness%20Repair%20Manual%20%28RM1022E%29.pdf

WOW. THANK YOU. Time to read! Now I just have to do is find a donor vehicle... and I have to know whether any fab work is required or not. is there any?

 

[TheManOutside]

Just thought of something... If I were to swap my transmission with the R150F, would I still be able to drive the truck without any 4wd parts installed (no connected front diff, driveshaft, etc.)? Just curious because I think it would be nice to test the transmission before going further onto 4wd, but if I must I must.

Oh, and here's Jon's build thread.
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/145595-bawlzdeep-build.html
He used his automatic ECU I'm pretty sure, has the CEL on but he took the bulb out, and I'm assuming he also passed emissions (he also lives in California).

 

[JBurt]

I've always wondered if you could keep the automatic ecu, find a way to trick it into thinking there were shift solenoids, and use the diff from a manual hub Tacoma. You'd have to lock the axles every time, but it would solve some other problems