4.0L Motor

[1engineer]

Here are the exact differences between the last 2 versions of the 1GR-FE engines but not mentioned in the pdf as it came out before ,is that they added the smog pump in 2013 to the latest(our) version. FJ's came with the same engine as ours.View attachment 131046



Not so fast unless you know for sure the ECU doesn't slowly tune(adapt) itself if you feed it the right fuel.......Supposedly Toyota has adaptive ignition timing so if you run high octane fuel for a long time the engine will adapt ,advancing the spark ,resulting in higher efficiency, greater power and torque as well as reduced fuel consumption. Now it being enough to offset the higher fuel cost is subjective.

Here is the Prado article,using the same 4.0L discussing it and I've seen it in print from Toyota with the higher HP ratings using higher octane. Welcome to Land Cruiser Owners On Line

I had read an article awhile back similar to that but also written by a 3rd party. My concern is twofold: 1)While the Prado is similar to the 4Runner nobody knows if the ECU programming is the same. 2)No Toyota Corporate documentation that supports the 3rd party stories nor is there anything in owner or service documentation to that effect.

I would think that if the 4Runner could be more efficient and powerful simply by running 93 Octane for a thousand miles Toyota would really use that as a marketing tool. So, while it COULD be true I (and the Toyota guys I know) are going to wait for proof. It makes sense for it to be true unfortunately there is no definitive proof. Somebody needs to dyno a 4Runner stock, buy 93 Octane for a few thousands of miles, document the hell out of it and dyno it again.

 

[alexb]

I had read an article awhile back similar to that but also written by a 3rd party. My concern is twofold: 1)While the Prado is similar to the 4Runner nobody knows if the ECU programming is the same. 2)No Toyota Corporate documentation that supports the 3rd party stories nor is there anything in owner or service documentation to that effect.

I would think that if the 4Runner could be more efficient and powerful simply by running 93 Octane for a thousand miles Toyota would really use that as a marketing tool. So, while it COULD be true I (and the Toyota guys I know) are going to wait for proof. It makes sense for it to be true unfortunately there is no definitive proof. Somebody needs to dyno a 4Runner stock, buy 93 Octane for a few thousands of miles, document the hell out of it and dyno it again.

Sounds like a great plan. Can't wait to hear back in a few months and know your results! :bounce:

Does anyone make any kind of flash tool or tune these engines at all? Back when I had my G37 there were companies like COBB or Osiris that could custom tune, or for less money sell a programmer with some good pre-loaded tunes for various mods and fuel octanes. It'd be interesting to see the results of changing the mapping for higher octane and maybe even cold air intakes, or exhausts.

 

[Jeremy556]

You guys would be right if you could get the ECU tuned for 91 and the additional power. The 91 does not give you the additional power, the programming does. Running 91 in the 4Runner will just cost you more at the pump with no advantage. The 91 is required for the tune, not the other way around lol.

The ECU has the tune, it's just waiting for the knock sensor to tell it to kick in. The old 1GR-FE did, too.

 

[Jeremy556]

Here are the exact differences between the last 2 versions of the 1GR-FE engines but not mentioned in the pdf as it came out before ,is that they added the smog pump in 2013 to the latest(our) version. FJ's came with the same engine as ours.View attachment 131046



Not so fast unless you know for sure the ECU doesn't slowly tune(adapt) itself if you feed it the right fuel.......Supposedly Toyota has adaptive ignition timing so if you run high octane fuel for a long time the engine will adapt ,advancing the spark ,resulting in higher efficiency, greater power and torque as well as reduced fuel consumption. Now it being enough to offset the higher fuel cost is subjective.

Here is the Prado article,using the same 4.0L discussing it and I've seen it in print from Toyota with the higher HP ratings using higher octane. Welcome to Land Cruiser Owners On Line

If you run Techstream in data capture, or Torque logging, you can capture timing advance and compare between tanks, I have.

When I lived at low elevation, I would run 93 octane when towing, as the difference made it worthwhile for the extra price, 87 the rest of the time. Since moving to high elevation, I run 91 all of the time, as it has needed every bit of help it can get. Now that I have 4.56 gears, I may switch to 85.

 

[ZJumper]

So after reading these posts I'm a bit confused as Toyota's website (since 2010's came out) has always had the 4Runner 4.0L listed at 270 hp. Tacoma 4.0L has been listed as 236.

So what's correct?

 

[Jeremy556]

I had read an article awhile back similar to that but also written by a 3rd party. My concern is twofold: 1)While the Prado is similar to the 4Runner nobody knows if the ECU programming is the same. 2)No Toyota Corporate documentation that supports the 3rd party stories nor is there anything in owner or service documentation to that effect.

I would think that if the 4Runner could be more efficient and powerful simply by running 93 Octane for a thousand miles Toyota would really use that as a marketing tool. So, while it COULD be true I (and the Toyota guys I know) are going to wait for proof. It makes sense for it to be true unfortunately there is no definitive proof. Somebody needs to dyno a 4Runner stock, buy 93 Octane for a few thousands of miles, document the hell out of it and dyno it again.

They got hammered years back (FJCs) for requiring "Premium Fuel" and chose to instead publish reduced numbers for 87 octane.

 

[Jeremy556]

So after reading these posts I'm a bit confused as Toyota's website (since 2010's came out) has always had the 4Runner 4.0L listed at 270 hp. Tacoma 4.0L has been listed as 236.

So what's correct?

Both/neither.

4runner uses the "new" 4.0 with dual VVTi, the Taco uses the "old" 4.0 with single VVTi.

 

[ZJumper]

From [MENTION=85467]BobsTrail[/MENTION]:
The 1GR-FE is the 4.0 L (3956 cc) version, designed for longitudinal mounting in RWD and 4WD pickup applications. It has a 94 mm bore and a stroke of 95 mm. Output is 236 hp (176 kW) at 5200 rpm with 266 lb·ft (361 N·m) of torque at 4000 rpm on 87 octane, and 239 hp (178 kW) at 5200 rpm with 278 lb·ft (377 N·m) at 3700 rpm on 91 octane. This engine features Toyota's VVT-i, variable valve timing system on the intake cam and a compression ratio of 10.0:1. Service weight, including fluids, is 166 kg (366 lb).

An updated version of this engine features Dual VVT-i, increasing output to 254 hp (189 kW) and 270 lb·ft (366 N·m) on 87 octane and 285 hp (213 kW) and 289 lb·ft (392 N·m) on 91 octane. Inside, the 1GR uses a "taper-squish" combustion chamber design with matching pistons to improve anti-knocking and engine performance, while also improving intake and fuel efficiency. Toyota adopted a siamese-type intake port, which reduces the surface area of the port walls and prevents fuel from adhering to such walls. This engine has special cast-iron cylinder liners cast into the block, which are a spiny type to improve adhesion between the liner and cylinder block. With these special thin liners it is impossible to bore the block. In the event of cylinder wall damage (scoring, deep protrusions, etc.), the entire cylinder block must be replaced. For increased block rigidity, the 1GR also receives a high temperature plastic insulator/protector, which fills the empty space between the outer portion of the cylinders and block material common to open deck engines. For increased cooling efficiency, the 1GR employs water passages between the bores of the engine. There are two such passages for each bank for a total of four. This reduces cylinder hot-spotting and keeps combustion chamber temperatures more uniform.

A bolt-on TRD supercharger kit is available on the Tacoma and FJ Cruiser.

Applications (with VVT-i) in model years:

2003-2009 Toyota 4Runner / Hilux Surf (GRN210/215)
2007-2011 Toyota Land Cruiser (GRJ200)
2003-2009 Toyota Land Cruiser Prado (GRJ120/121/125)
2005–present Toyota Tacoma (GRN225/245/250/265/270)
2005 Toyota Hilux (GGN10/20)
2005-2006 Toyota Tundra (GSK30)
2007-2009 Toyota Tundra (GSK50/51)
2005–present Toyota Fortuner (GGN50/60)
2007-2009 Toyota FJ Cruiser (GSJ10/15)
Applications (with Dual VVT-i) in model years:

2010–present Toyota 4Runner (GRN280)
2010–present Toyota FJ Cruiser
2012–present Toyota Land Cruiser
2009–present Toyota Land Cruiser Prado (GRJ150/155)
2010–present Toyota Tundra (GSK50/51)
2012–present Lexus GX 400 (URJ150)

The parts in red contradict Toyota's HP claim.

I do understand if this info was a cut/paste from Wikipedia or source like it as accuracy can be suspect.

 

[intense1776]

I had read an article awhile back similar to that but also written by a 3rd party. My concern is twofold: 1)While the Prado is similar to the 4Runner nobody knows if the ECU programming is the same. 2)No Toyota Corporate documentation that supports the 3rd party stories nor is there anything in owner or service documentation to that effect.



I would think that if the 4Runner could be more efficient and powerful simply by running 93 Octane for a thousand miles Toyota would really use that as a marketing tool. So, while it COULD be true I (and the Toyota guys I know) are going to wait for proof. It makes sense for it to be true unfortunately there is no definitive proof. Somebody needs to dyno a 4Runner stock, buy 93 Octane for a few thousands of miles, document the hell out of it and dyno it again.

I am a former Subaru owner and did a lot of work tuning my (turbo) ECU. On a Subaru motor, it uses a "Dynamic Advance Multiplier (DAM)" to adjust the amount of advance throughout the closed-loop circuit. Low octane fuel, 90+ degree California days, heat soaked inter cooler, etc., all reduced the DAM. Octane booster on a crappy tank, dry ice on the inter cooler, new high quality tank of fuel, all increased the DAM. Once the ECU was run at a low DAM for too long, it was necessary to reset the ECU entirely, to recalculate the DAM immediately (there was even a trick process to max out the DAM in less than a 1/2 mile of driving).

I am not suggesting the 1GR ECU is the same, but all ECU's use (among others) knock sensors and intake temps to adjust timing to protect the motor. While Toyota may not call it a DAM, they will use a similar system.

I realize this debate may never be settled in the naturally aspirated world, but there is absolutely no question that any ECU will pull timing on low quality fuel. Using "Top Tier", high octane gas is much more reliable and consistent energy source for the ECU to maintain the maximum timing. Will high octane fuel ADD power over the base ECU map? If there is any increase, it will be negligible, and not likely consistent. It WILL help prevent the ECU from PULLING timing, however. At your non-name brand stations that are only meeting minimum detergent standards, fuel quality is a very real problem, especially in the long term. Google "Top Tier Gas" for more info on high grade fuel.

I'll pay $5 more per tank for high octane to achieve reliable and consistent power. I also change brands every 8-10 months to use a different detergent to clean my engine internals of buildup that one type of detergent may leave behind. After seeing the inside of a number of motors using the cheapest gas vs. Top Tier Gas, it is worth it. I would love a nice tune though

 

[8borerifle]

I have a 2012 Mustang GT 412 horsepower on 93 Oct. and 402 on 87. I have noticed NO difference in power, gas mileage or drivability going from 87 to 93. maybe at the drag strip, but not on the street. Now I run only 87! I really doubt you would notice a difference in a heavy vehicle like my 2011 4Runner.

 

[Whiplash Willy]

I have a 2012 Mustang GT 412 horsepower on 93 Oct. and 402 on 87. I have noticed NO difference in power, gas mileage or drivability going from 87 to 93. maybe at the drag strip, but not on the street. Now I run only 87! I really doubt you would notice a difference in a heavy vehicle like my 2011 4Runner.

When you have 400HP, how easy is it to feel a 10hp difference?

 

[chmura]

I participated in the BMW European Delivery Program that BMW offers US buyers to pick up their newly purchased car in Munich Germany.

In Germany they have 98 octane and sometimes gas stations have 102 octane fuel. When I got my car back into the states I can clearly feel the difference in power when using 91 octane fuel.

 

[Jeremy556]

I participated in the BMW European Delivery Program that BMW offers US buyers to pick up their newly purchased car in Munich Germany.

In Germany they have 98 octane and sometimes gas stations have 102 octane fuel. When I got my car back into the states I can clearly feel the difference in power when using 91 octane fuel.

In EU, the numbers shown for octane rating are RON, in the US, it is AKI ((RON+MON)/2). AKI will be 4-6 lower than RON for the same fuel.

 

[chmura]

True.

91 octane in the USA = 96 octane in Europe.

I was tanking up with 102 octane in Europe (roughly 97 octane US).

Again, my M3 in Europe was behaved so much better especially at the 6k-8200rpm range than it did in the USA. Roughly $9 a gallon for fuel in Europe though.

 

[mountain mike]

In my opinion, oil change on 5th Gen is no big deal, You have to get underneath the vehicle to remove oil drain plug on just about engine. While you're down there and in the case of a 2014 SR5 2WD, you remove 11 bolts and one push pin, then spin off a housing, dump old filter replace/reassemble/done.

11 bolts to change the oil? Considering most vehicles have a oil drain plug, and a screw on oil filter, that seems quite excessive.

I loved how the 4.0L before updated VVTI had the oil filer on the top of the engine. It was so easy to change the oil. Going from that design to a "new" design with the stupid cartridge that is much more of a pain in the a$$ was a big mistake by Toyota IMHO. Anyone who says Toyota did this to pump up the service departments would be correct.

 

[Lester Lugnut]

Anyone who says Toyota did this to pump up the service departments would be correct.

In that case I am completely incorrect.

If you would, compare the internal structure of the earlier single VVT-i(the one with the filter on top) and the newer dual VVT-i(filter down below) and tell us where the oil filter could have been relocated to.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

11 bolts to change the oil? Considering most vehicles have a oil drain plug, and a screw on oil filter, that seems quite excessive.

I loved how the 4.0L before updated VVTI had the oil filer on the top of the engine. It was so easy to change the oil. Going from that design to a "new" design with the stupid cartridge that is much more of a pain in the a$$ was a big mistake by Toyota IMHO. Anyone who says Toyota did this to pump up the service departments would be correct.

Actually my understanding it has to do with the dual VVTi set-up and second Prius loving ding bats as well as corporate shylocks.

Many vehicles are going to the canister style filters because it allows the manufacturers to control variables in filters more finely. Not to mention reduce costs on service parts by using just the filter elements and not the entire assemblies. Not to mention it creates a smaller toxic waste footprint for the dealerships apparently to dispose of mostly filter media vs. combined rubber, metal, and fiber.

 

[Whiplash Willy]

11 bolts to change the oil? Considering most vehicles have a oil drain plug, and a screw on oil filter, that seems quite excessive.

I loved how the 4.0L before updated VVTI had the oil filer on the top of the engine. It was so easy to change the oil. Going from that design to a "new" design with the stupid cartridge that is much more of a pain in the a$$ was a big mistake by Toyota IMHO. Anyone who says Toyota did this to pump up the service departments would be correct.

Most vehicles also don't have skid plates either. You can reduce the amount of bolts you need to undo/redo by driving around without skids....

I will give you the previous gen 1GR-FE had a more convenient oil filter type, and location, but then again, you had to change the oil twice as often. Changing the cartridge filter every 10k miles really isn't a big deal. Changing the Screw-on filter on my wife's GX470 requires you to remove the skids as well, and really isn't much easier then changing the oil on the 5th gen. The 5th gen takes like 10 more min....

There are alot worse things that Toyota did to the 5th gen besides use a Cartridge Filter (Which BTW, manufactures are moving towards). A good example would be the Air Injection Pump introduced in the 2013 MY.

 

[mountain mike]

In that case I am completely incorrect.

If you would, compare the internal structure of the earlier single VVT-i(the one with the filter on top) and the newer dual VVT-i(filter down below) and tell us where the oil filter could have been relocated to.

I don't know about you, but I am do not engineer engines for a living so I couldn't tell you. I would just seem logical they could have put it in another place and they didn't need to make a cartridge style element. The design they "upgraded" was a lot easier to use. You can buy an oil filer relocation kit aftermarket so I would guess Toyota could figure out a better place to put it.

 

[mountain mike]

Most vehicles also don't have skid plates either. You can reduce the amount of bolts you need to undo/redo by driving around without skids....

Didn't realize we were counting the skid plate bolts. That makes more sense. Still more of a pain to change. I had a 2010 FJ with the canister style oil filter down below. My dad has a 2008 FJ with the screw filter up top and it is much easier to change his oil than it was on my 2010.
The old style was just so slick and worked so well I don't know why they changed it.
The new engine, to me, didn't seem to get better gas mileage or have better power. They should have just left it alone.