4 SPD AUTO vs. 5 SPD AUTO?
- Thread starter albelee
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ToolmanJohn
New member
albelee said:
No choices for the 2005 V6 or All V8 4runners. Same 5 speed tranny.
The V6 2003-2004's came with a 4 speed.
Mark86
Super Moderator
albelee said:
You don't have a choice with transmissions for 2005. You can only get a 5-speed on the 4Runner. The only choice you have is whether to go with the V6 with multi-mode 4WD (2WD, 4HI, 4LO) or the V8, which has full-time 4WD (always in 4HI and you have a 4LO option).
Fro-Runner
New member
Yeah......Toyota should have originally put the 5spd tranny in both the V-6 and V-8's! I feel as if the 2003/2004 V-6 Runner owners got the shaft with the 4 spd jobbie!
ToolmanJohn
New member
I like the 4Speed
I don't believe an extra gear makes any difference. Think about how many years all automatics were 3 speeds. Then the overdrive came, then 4 speeds, 5 speeds, 6 speeds, and 7 speed automatics are not far behind.
Why? Adding complexity without benefit. I know that one more ratio will mean nothing for everyday driving. Will it be better on fuel? Will it be better at towing? Will it be more reliable? If 5 speeds make it quicker, how quick can it possibly get with the same motor, will the tranny weigh more and negate any quickness? Does it matter?
If anyone feels betrayed by the "improvement" of a 5 speed, by all means trade up. You'll have to trade up nearly every year as they keep making "improvements" to get new buyers.
Thankfully, I know this is a vehicle I will keep a damn long time. If I do end up with another vehicle in the future it will be an AWD sedan, IN ADDITION to the 4runner. Just waiting for the NISSAN boneheads to get AWD into the Maxima with 300HP. I would buy this year if they made it.
I don't believe an extra gear makes any difference. Think about how many years all automatics were 3 speeds. Then the overdrive came, then 4 speeds, 5 speeds, 6 speeds, and 7 speed automatics are not far behind.
Why? Adding complexity without benefit. I know that one more ratio will mean nothing for everyday driving. Will it be better on fuel? Will it be better at towing? Will it be more reliable? If 5 speeds make it quicker, how quick can it possibly get with the same motor, will the tranny weigh more and negate any quickness? Does it matter?
If anyone feels betrayed by the "improvement" of a 5 speed, by all means trade up. You'll have to trade up nearly every year as they keep making "improvements" to get new buyers.
Thankfully, I know this is a vehicle I will keep a damn long time. If I do end up with another vehicle in the future it will be an AWD sedan, IN ADDITION to the 4runner. Just waiting for the NISSAN boneheads to get AWD into the Maxima with 300HP. I would buy this year if they made it.
ToolmanJohn
New member
What would the reason have been?
If the 4runners were identical except for the motors, why get the 235 HP V8 vs the 240 HP V6? They had to have a 5 speed to make it a bit more different than the V6, which is what the 4runner has had for a long time. And they had to "compete" with other manufacturers that are offering 5 pseed and 6 speed auto trannny's.
Now that the V8 has gotten a HP bump with the addition of V V T-i this year, they can give the V6 the 5 speed as well. The two motors are now differentiated by marketing (V8 has more HP than V6). They plan these changes years in advance, so it's just designed to keep the models
'fresh".
I expect that both motors will get HP bumps before this 4th generation changes to 5th with redesign. NISSAN has a 270hp V6, Toyota will follow suit.
fo'runner said:Yeah......Toyota should have originally put the 5spd tranny in both the V-6 and V-8's! I feel as if the 2003/2004 V-6 Runner owners got the shaft with the 4 spd jobbie!
If the 4runners were identical except for the motors, why get the 235 HP V8 vs the 240 HP V6? They had to have a 5 speed to make it a bit more different than the V6, which is what the 4runner has had for a long time. And they had to "compete" with other manufacturers that are offering 5 pseed and 6 speed auto trannny's.
Now that the V8 has gotten a HP bump with the addition of V V T-i this year, they can give the V6 the 5 speed as well. The two motors are now differentiated by marketing (V8 has more HP than V6). They plan these changes years in advance, so it's just designed to keep the models
'fresh".
I expect that both motors will get HP bumps before this 4th generation changes to 5th with redesign. NISSAN has a 270hp V6, Toyota will follow suit.
bulldog-yota
New member
answer to original question, is the same as above, you dont have a choice the V8 only comes with a 5 speed for all years, the V6 03-04 4 spd, later 5 spd.
Pending on your use of the vehicle 5spd can make a big difference.
I dont know what the final drive on the new 5 spd V6 is, but I did the comparison for the 5spd V8 final drive vs 4spd V6 final drive some time ago.
Transfer case V6 and V8 is 2.566
FInal drive V6 3.909 V8 3.727 (so those that went to 33" tires can gain that back by swapping the V8 gears for V6 gears in the diff about 5%)
V6 gears
1st 2.804
2nd 1.531
3rd 1.000
4th 0.705
V8 gears
1st 3.520
2nd 2.042
3rd 1.400
4th 1.000
5th 0.716
SO the V8 has a 20% shorter 1st gear ratio (with diff) than the V6 showing why the V8 is a better option offroad and towing. Also 2nd is 27% shorter and so on till top gear where the V8 is 3% taller (an extra gear helps).
so if you tow or go offroad the 5 spd has a significant advantage with much lower gears in the first 3 speeds, less strain on engine and tranny. also if you add bigger wheels/tires you will notice the effect far less.
Also for people living in very hilly/mountain areas you will have less of a tendency to shift between gears.
Even if you dont do any of these the 5 speed will leave the 4 spd in the dust at a traffic light, with the same engine, all day long. Shorter gears get you up to speed on a heavy vechile so much quicker.
If none of these are important to you, dont worry about it. In normal day to day tooling around town it will make a marginal/unnoticeable difference.
Pending on your use of the vehicle 5spd can make a big difference.
I dont know what the final drive on the new 5 spd V6 is, but I did the comparison for the 5spd V8 final drive vs 4spd V6 final drive some time ago.
Transfer case V6 and V8 is 2.566
FInal drive V6 3.909 V8 3.727 (so those that went to 33" tires can gain that back by swapping the V8 gears for V6 gears in the diff about 5%)
V6 gears
1st 2.804
2nd 1.531
3rd 1.000
4th 0.705
V8 gears
1st 3.520
2nd 2.042
3rd 1.400
4th 1.000
5th 0.716
SO the V8 has a 20% shorter 1st gear ratio (with diff) than the V6 showing why the V8 is a better option offroad and towing. Also 2nd is 27% shorter and so on till top gear where the V8 is 3% taller (an extra gear helps).
so if you tow or go offroad the 5 spd has a significant advantage with much lower gears in the first 3 speeds, less strain on engine and tranny. also if you add bigger wheels/tires you will notice the effect far less.
Also for people living in very hilly/mountain areas you will have less of a tendency to shift between gears.
Even if you dont do any of these the 5 speed will leave the 4 spd in the dust at a traffic light, with the same engine, all day long. Shorter gears get you up to speed on a heavy vechile so much quicker.
If none of these are important to you, dont worry about it. In normal day to day tooling around town it will make a marginal/unnoticeable difference.
Fro-Runner
New member
THANKS Bulldog-yota for explaining that in GREAT detail for those who did NOT understand where I was coming from about being pissed at Toyota. The '05 V-6 w/5spd tranny will kick the socks off an '03-'04 V-6 w/4spd tranny all day long. From the 0-60 to the uphill slope climbs. I can notice the difference in just trolling around so. Calif pulling the numerous 1000-3000 ft hills we have here. The 4 spd tranny has too long of gearing ratio between 2nd-3rd-4th for good continous power. This also comes into reverse effect when going down the hill.....as the longer gears will cause a driver to ride thier brakes more. Thanks again Bulldog-yota! Now, if I could just get Toyota to update my '04 V-6 with modern day 5 spd tranny hardware!
bulldog-yota
New member
Easy fix, just trade it info'runner said:
While you are at it get the new V8, you will really notice a difference then
Fro-Runner
New member
he he he......After you trade yours my friend. Actually, I have gave it serious thought but since I just bought it in May '04; I'd probably would end up more of the sucker in the deal.
ToyotaDoodz
New member
Coming from an 4sp 3rd GEN to a 5sp 4th GEN, the 5 speed DOES make a difference. The power transfer is smoother across the speed range. It was very noticeable to me on the first test drive. It also gives you more options in 4LO and a better granny 1st gear.
iFORCE
New member
JB. said:Originally posted by iFORCE
You plan on racing backwards?
I promised the old lady I wouldn't put any racing miles on the odometer.
Ahhh... going to keep the horses in the stables. you know you got to let the horses out once in awhile... otherwise they get cramped and tempermental.
btw, where in Nevada do you live? I'm coming to visit! well... I'm heading to Las Vegas in 4 days for 5 days.
JB.
New member
iFORCE said:btw, where in Nevada do you live? I'm coming to visit! well... I'm heading to Las Vegas in 4 days for 5 days.
Ya kinda scared me with that "comin to visit" line. Thought I was gonna have to clean the barn there for a second.
That's exactly the part of Nevada I live in. I'm recently removed from the gaming business, (hopefully, for good) but I can't shake the 20 year habit of working graveyard. I'm actually on my way to catch some zzzzz's right now. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...
2005 SPT V6
New member
Thats correct. Thats why I opt for the 2005V6 because of the 5speed trans.
bulldog-yota said:
bulldog-yota
New member
Reverse:
03-04 V6 2.393
V8 3.224
It was an PDF on Toyota's press site about the 4Runner, which I downloaded at the time.
I dont know what the ratios for the new 5spd V6 are, but I would suspect they would be the same as the V8. However i can't confirm it.
03-04 V6 2.393
V8 3.224
It was an PDF on Toyota's press site about the 4Runner, which I downloaded at the time.
I dont know what the ratios for the new 5spd V6 are, but I would suspect they would be the same as the V8. However i can't confirm it.
