4 wheel low with V8?

[Thai]

In sand or mud, i would favor locked diff(s) (not center diff) over ATRAC.

 

[M1911]

lol a "locking center differential" is completely different than a "locked front/rear differential" and I can promise you it won't "dig you deeper" or put you in a worse situation than it would if you didn't have it. If that were true, ARB would be out of business and all of the off-road guys would be running open diffs lol. All of this traction control, fake limited slip is garbage compared to an actual locked differential. Get a wheel or two off the ground and you'll figure it out. Semi-flat land or in the mall parking lot it's probably perfectly fine. In my personal experience, it's a VERY limited, beginners off-road system. Different strokes for different folks.

You were talking about SAND. That's different from rock hopping. Out in sand, you don't need a front or rear locker. Are they helpful when rock hopping? Sure. But sand isn't rock hopping.

 

[Justinlhc]

You were talking about SAND. That's different from rock hopping. Out in sand, you don't need a front or rear locker. Are they helpful when rock hopping? Sure. But sand isn't rock hopping.

Yes, I'm talking about sand and I never mentioned anything about "rock hopping". Where did you hear you don't need lockers in sand???? lol, I'll have to let the guys know to remove/disengage their lockers before going out in the dunes lol. :lmao:

 

[Justinlhc]

When it comes to being on ice or any slippery, off-camber situation, I'd take A-TRAC any day!

I'd hardly call a sophisticated system like A-TRAC "garbage", as you put it, and it can handle quite a bit more than the local mall parking lot. In fact, A-TRAC would run circles around a locked differential in a parking lot... literally! :biggrin2:

Don't get me wrong... ARB air lockers, OX Trax lockers, and even spools definitely have their place (I even loved the e-locker in my '98 Tacoma), but for the vast majority of us 4Runner owners, A-TRAC keeps us smiling!

Now you got me hoping for a snow day!
~Doozi

I said "garbage compared to...." because it really is. Go get yourself into an off camber situation with one wheel in the air and let me know how it works out for you. I don't mean to knock ATRAC, but it's really not something I'd rely on to mess around in MOAB lol.

 

[M1911]

I see. So, your GC came from the factory with lockers front and rear?

Didn't think so.

So what is it you are complaining about again?

 

[Justinlhc]

I see. So, your GC came from the factory with lockers front and rear?

Didn't think so.

So what is it you are complaining about again?

When did I say it came with lockers and what does that have to do with anything? Are you having trouble reading or are you upset that you dont know what youre talking about when it comes to off-roading? Its ok little buddy. We all had to start somewhere.

 

[Justinlhc]

You're not real familiar with being on topic on message boards are ya? Its ok little buddy. We all had to start somewhere.

Riiiiiight. At what point in my posts did I mention something that didnt pertain to the topic being discussed? Did you have something knowledgable to add or are you just trying to take a jab at me for some odd reason?

I'd be happy to hear your opinion on the topic so feel free to include that in your next reply.

 

[anotherrunner83]

I took my 08 V8 up into the mountains this weekend and encountered about a foot or so of snow. This was the first trip of this kind with this truck. I've played in snow, mud, and sand with both of my previous 4Rs (88 and 94). The truck is INCREDIBLE in snow. It never slipped until I made it slip and ATRAC quickly shut it down. I ran all day in a foot or so of snow, up and down hills and never had to lock up the center diff.

To the bickering about the GC, I guess you can compare a GC to a 4R off road, and it may have an edge in certain circumstances, but that's really where the comparisons end. With more transmission issues than trucks on the road, it's hard to make a comparison of any kind with Jeep. It's not even in the same league with the quality and dependability of a Toyota.

 

[M1911]

When did I say it came with lockers and what does that have to do with anything?

You were talking up your GC and talking down the 4Runner because of the fact that is has ATRAC and not lockers. Your GC didn't come with lockers either. Both are reasonable offroad within their limits. Neither is a Jeep Rubicon.

Buy yourself a Rubicon or put lockers on your 4Runner or get a rare 2009 4Runner TE with a rear locker or get a 2010 TE with a rear locker.

Are you having trouble reading or are you upset that you dont know what youre talking about when it comes to off-roading? Its ok little buddy. We all had to start somewhere.

You are really being condescending. Knock it off.

 

[thmastr]

All years the same. Maybe this will be useful.

thanks JB

 

[Justinlhc]

You were talking up your GC and talking down the 4Runner because of the fact that is has ATRAC and not lockers. Your GC didn't come with lockers either. Both are reasonable offroad within their limits. Neither is a Jeep Rubicon.

Buy yourself a Rubicon or put lockers on your 4Runner or get a rare 2009 4Runner TE with a rear locker or get a 2010 TE with a rear locker.


You are really being condescending. Knock it off.

Yeah, and your last post wasn't? :nono:

I didn't know I'm not allowed to compare the 4WD system of another vehicle in a thread where people are asking and comparing 4WD systems of various vehicles. :bash:

I'm not sure if you missed it, but if you want to go start a thread strictly dedicated to Toyota or ATRAC or whatever, go for it. The original topic of this thread started with this:

Does the V8 4Runner have a low range in 4 wheel drive? I forgot to notice.

Also some dumb questions:

> what advantage does full-time 4WD have?
> does the limited slip center mean it's a true 4 wheel drive?
> or does true 4 wheel drive happen with the locker?
> is the new 4Runner considered best in class in off-roading?

Thanks!!

And SEVERAL others continued to post about Jeeps, Grand Cherokee and other vehicles:

Quick response:
5. 4runner is probably the top 3 best off-roaders. The other competitors are: Land Rover Discovery SII and Jeep Grand Cherokee. All three of these SUVs have plus and minus. Grand Cherokee is probably in 3rd place, but no clear winner. It is up to the individual to weighs the pluses and minuses.

Thai,


I traded in a 2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited on the 2004 4Runner Limited (both 4.7l V8). The two vehicles are very very different. I had the Quadra-trac II in my Jeep, as the Quadra-drive had just come out and there were a lot of complaints about binding and reliability. It sounds like the Quadra-drive (which uses viscous couplings to transfer torque across the axles) works similarly to the Toyota system. Not so with Quadra-drive II. It automatically (and seamlessly) transfers torque back and forth, but not side-to-side. Yes, a JGC can get stuck with three wheels spinning and one with traction. Didn't happen to me, thankfully, but after the first couple of years of ownership, I stopped taking it into the muck for reliability reasons (I wanted to get back home :rolleye2: ).

I'll try the center diff lock next time I head out. The manual really sucks in its explanation of how it works and why one would want to use it.

I don't know what the Land Rover's reliability is like, but if it's anything like the Jeep's, the 4Runner is #1. Besides, the 4Runner is much more spacious. There's barely enough room for a sleeping bag and a small flashlight in the back of a Discovery. The rear seats are cramped, and the damn thing looks like a white box of animal crackers.

Thanks, Fish! As for QuadraDrive issues, check out this link:

Jeep Grand Cherokee (horror stories!) - Toyota 4Runner Forum

It is not nearly as effective as Jeep leads people to believe.

You may think Quadradrive is not as effective, and I wouldn't argue with the fact that Jeep's have poorer quality, but I saw a GC with Quadradrive 2 go up the side of a moguled hill that others in the group couldn't do. (The rest of the group consisted of Cherokees, a Pathfinder, and Envoy & a Xtera.)

Course, we did wind up towing him back after he went thru the drink too fast.

I agree with both Thai and davefisher. An article I read basically said full time 4WD is the same as AWD, but AWD is not the same as full time 4WD because it doesn't have a low gear. The article goes on and says the second gen Escalade is not a true SUV because it's AWD and not 4WD.

So chill out. :moon:

 

[Justinlhc]

To the bickering about the GC, I guess you can compare a GC to a 4R off road, and it may have an edge in certain circumstances, but that's really where the comparisons end. With more transmission issues than trucks on the road, it's hard to make a comparison of any kind with Jeep. It's not even in the same league with the quality and dependability of a Toyota.

Although I've never heard of any major transmission issues nor did I ever experience any when I owned one, I will agree about the quality and dependability, but we're talking about 4WD systems and such, not reliability/dependability. : Solid axle > IFS

Before the Toyota bodyguards attack me for saying something unholy about a Toyota design, I love Toyota and I've owned SEVERAL of them and still own SEVERAL of them, but I'm not going to act like everything they have is perfect or the best there ever is or will be. The topic is about comparing the 4Runner's off-road capabilities to other similar vehicles off-road capabilities. :cheers:

 

[anotherrunner83]

the new jeep GC is independent all the way around...no more solid axles

Jeep - 2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee - Capability - Handling

 

[JB.]

Riiiiiight. At what point in my posts did I mention something that didnt pertain to the topic being discussed? Did you have something knowledgable to add or are you just trying to take a jab at me for some odd reason?

I'd be happy to hear your opinion on the topic so feel free to include that in your next reply.

You're quick, that's for sure. That post wasn't up very long. I was referring to the conversation as it was picked up recently, but in looking at the original thread post, I saw how yours fit and so deleted. Not in time, though.

Plenty of people, including myself, have run up and down and all around Pismo dunes with nothing more than a center locker. Do trucks with more lockers do better on the big dunes? Of course, but characterizing center lockers as being inadequate in sand (if that's what you're doing) is not the reality I'm familiar with. That includes plenty of dry, desert sand, too.

On the dunes I used 1st gear high which means less aggressive ATRAC than low range. If I couldn't make one of the big dunes, the truck just sank pretty quickly. I don't recall any ATRAC intervention.

There are quite a few people around who started out with 4th gen runners and slowly built them with more lockers, solid axles, body lifts, etc. I've heard almost nothing but high praise for ATRAC among those folks even though the needs of some them eventually outgrew it.

 

[Thai]

Although I've never heard of any major transmission issues nor did I ever experience any when I owned one, I will agree about the quality and dependability, but we're talking about 4WD systems and such, not reliability/dependability. : Solid axle > IFS

Before the Toyota bodyguards attack me for saying something unholy about a Toyota design, I love Toyota and I've owned SEVERAL of them and still own SEVERAL of them, but I'm not going to act like everything they have is perfect or the best there ever is or will be. The topic is about comparing the 4Runner's off-road capabilities to other similar vehicles off-road capabilities. :cheers:

Body-on-frame > unibody

Isn't reliability and/or durability a factor in off-roading to some degree? Isn't it nice to be able to make it there AND come back home in one piece? Wouldn't a failed component affect capability of a vehicle?

At least with ATRAC, you can always add a locker to complement it. And ATRAC has its place off-road. A good combo is rear locker with ATRAC controlling the front axle.

 

[Justinlhc]

You're quick, that's for sure. That post wasn't up very long. I was referring to the conversation as it was picked up recently, but in looking at the original thread post, I saw how yours fit and so deleted. Not in time, though.

Plenty of people, including myself, have run up and down and all around Pismo dunes with nothing more than a center locker. Do trucks with more lockers do better on the big dunes? Of course, but characterizing center lockers as being inadequate in sand (if that's what you're doing) is not the reality I'm familiar with. That includes plenty of dry, desert sand, too.

On the dunes I used 1st gear high which means less aggressive ATRAC than low range. If I couldn't make one of the big dunes, the truck just sank pretty quickly. I don't recall any ATRAC intervention.

There are quite a few people around who started out with 4th gen runners and slowly built them with more lockers, solid axles, body lifts, etc. I've heard almost nothing but high praise for ATRAC among those folks even though the needs of some them eventually outgrew it.

No, I never said anything was bad about a "center locker". The only thing a center locker does is allow you to have 50/50 power to both front and rear axles which a lot of other 4WD vehicles already have or they have a straight 50/50 only. I don't have a problem with the center diff at all.

In the sand, your tires are pretty much constantly slipping when under power. Does that mean ATRAC is constantly applying brake pressure to the wheels? (That's a serious question FYI). If so, I really don't see how that could be a good thing. :shrug:

 

[Justinlhc]

Body-on-frame > unibody

Isn't reliability and/or durability a factor in off-roading to some degree? Isn't it nice to be able to make it there AND come back home in one piece? Wouldn't a failed component affect capability of a vehicle?

At least with ATRAC, you can always add a locker to complement it. And ATRAC has its place off-road. A good combo is rear locker with ATRAC controlling the front axle.

Well, I guess you can twist it and turn it to favor Toyota anyway you want. I thought we wanted a fair, unbiased comparison. :

 

[Thai]

Well, I guess you can twist it and turn it to favor Toyota anyway you want. I thought we wanted a fair, unbiased comparison. :

You're a weird guy...when someone argues with you with facts, you go run and cry foul! Where did the solid axle > IFS come from? So, it is not ok for me to mention BOF > Unibody? But it is OK for you to throw in SA > IFS?? :shrug:

Why did you buy a Toyota? Isn't reliability and durability the main reason? Isn't that a major plus when off-roading? Jeep GC's QDII system is hardly better than ATRAC...and a far cry from lockers. I agree with you...locker(s) is a good thing to have off-road, but ATRAC is not a limp system as you implied...because the Jeep GC's system is not any better. Now, if you talk about the Rubicon, then i can see your point better.

Lets take your 4runner. A stock 4th gen 4runner will be more off-road capable than your 4runner when it was stock. Yes, your 4runner is smaller and can fit into tighter places...but capability-wise, the 4th gen has a better crawl ratio, way better traction devices, and way better brakes. Oh yeah, the engine and torque is not even close.

Lets talk about YOUR 4runner right now. Your 4runner has a rear locker...wonderful! However, your front diff is open. A 4th gen 4runner has ATRAC on ALL 4 wheels. Now, if a 4th gen owner puts in a rear locker (like what you have done), then that 4th gen 4runner is better than your 4runner in off-road capability because it has traction control on the front axle (aka similar to LSD) while you're completely open.

 

[Thai]

The topic is about comparing the 4Runner's off-road capabilities to other similar vehicles off-road capabilities. :cheers:

Ok...so what vehicles are you talking about so that we can talk more about?

(And if you haven't notice yet, then you should know that i am not bias to Toyota, nor any one brand either.)

 

[eskimochaos]

Anyone else notice the severe flexing of the LCA's in that new JGC commercial? I mean the entire arm flexes backwards. They arent even steel - I believe they are aluminium

IRS - seriously? The things uneducated buyers can be convinced of.