CyberNinja
New member
I have a 1999 4R Limited that I have fallen in love with. Pound for pound, it is the best car I have ever had. I like it so much that I have often toyed around with the idea of completely rebuilding it and bringing it back to showroom condition (new motor, etc). Now if I can find another 3rd generation in pristine condition, then I would consider dropping the digits to have instant Nirvana. If you are like me, you are constantly scanning Craigslist for their 4R ads. If you do, then you have no doubt seen the low mileage 4R's posted for sale by 405 Motors in Woodinville, WA. I had identified a 2002 4R LTD with 48K miles on it and became instantly infatuated with this truck. First thing I did was Google "405Motors" to see what type of footprint they have on the internet. The first few pages of results netted nothing amiss and they actually had some pretty good reviews on Yelp and other sites. Still not convinced I came to T4R.org and searched their name and found a little over 2 pages of posts with similar concerns to mine. Honestly what I read was many posts from users that seemed to be upset at the prices that they were charging but I could not find anything tangible on them to say otherwise (one post by a member offered a bit more and I PM'd him and he had good personal insight). Yesterday I took the time to make the drive to the dealership and spent a good hour looking at 7 4Runners and also 1 Lexus/land cruiser. I used the 3rd Generation buyers guide found on this forum as a guide (great post btw. If you are in the market for a used 3rd generation 4R, highly recommend). Here is an in depth review of 405 Motors:
Horrible Communication
I set up an appointment with them (a week in advance) to view the 2002 4R w/48k. I got pre-approved with financing and was prepared to drive the 2002 home. That Saturday morning, 2 hours before my appointment, I gave them a call just to reconfirm prior to making the drive. The salesperson who answered the phone told me that the 4Runner was not there, that it was getting brakes installed and not due until Monday. This was the first red flag. I was pretty upset, especially because I never got a phone call about this and had an appointment. I could not get a hold of my salesperson, Bari, until that Monday who told me that the vehicle was out for 2 weeks, because it was getting it's differential replaced! This was red flag #2. For one, that is a major repair for 48K miles and secondly, two weeks to fix this? Even so, in my quest to have a nearly new 4Runner, I told them to let me know when it was back, so that I could pick it up and have my mechanic look at the vehicle. If it checked out, I was committed to buy it. The price is high, no doubt, but the vehicle is worth what someone will pay for it and if it was as advertised, I was willing to pay for it.
The Dealership
I made the trek out there, it took me about an hours drive from Tukwila. I was actually surprised at how many vehicles they had on the lot and how many people were there shopping. That was a good sign, unfortunately the only good thing I could find about them. I entered the sales office (clean, semi organized) and found 4 people on the phone. They addressed me immediately, told me they have no sales people and that the car was out on the lot, unlocked. To have a look and let them know if I want to test drive. That I liked. No pressure. I anxiously trotted to the 2002 and it looked beautiful from 100 yards. The closer I got, the less beautiful she was. A scratch here, a nick there, still no biggie. First thing I did was get down on my knees and view the rear end, where they changed the differential. The first thing I noticed was fresh black paint on the undercarriage followed by a mass amount of rust. Not normal wear and tear rust but an unbelievable amount of rust/cancer. It was obvious that they were trying to cover this up. This is a major issue for this rig. Secondly I popped the hood and had a good look at the engine. Again, major rust over critical parts, especially the frame. Honestly I was pretty shocked to see how bad the rust was. After that, I did not even bother to look at the rest of the truck. At that point I was ready to leave. However, knowing that there were no real tangible reviews of this dealership that I could find, I decided to have a good look at all of their Toyota 4Runners and report my findings.
Every one that I looked at, the same exact thing. A crap load of rust all over the undercarriage followed by a mass of rust in the engine area. I am not exaggerating when I say that it was horribly consistent. There was a beautiful Lexus/LandCruiser that I spent some time in. Great outside, great interior but absolutely horrible rust everywhere. What a shame. In each case, where it was possible, I viewed the owners guide which included original dealership locations, and every single time, it was New York where the car's originated from. I propose that New York and all East Coast regions require an undercoat each year that they require a smog/inspection. These cars are making their way to the West Coast to unsuspecting buyers and it is a huge injustice to the less informed.
I also walked around the dealership, all the way to the back where their International work crew were processing new arrivals. I saw dead batteries all around cars, wires pulled out of the dashes, bald tires, etc. It was pretty obvious that they were somewhat of a chop shop, doing what needed to be done to get those cars on the lot.
The most troubling thing I saw were young families looking for vehicles from them. I hope this helps others who are caught up in the fantasy of having a low mileage 3rd generation as I was. On my way home I stopped off at the auto store and bought a bunch of car goodies to spoil my 1999 4R for even thinking of trading her in.
Horrible Communication
I set up an appointment with them (a week in advance) to view the 2002 4R w/48k. I got pre-approved with financing and was prepared to drive the 2002 home. That Saturday morning, 2 hours before my appointment, I gave them a call just to reconfirm prior to making the drive. The salesperson who answered the phone told me that the 4Runner was not there, that it was getting brakes installed and not due until Monday. This was the first red flag. I was pretty upset, especially because I never got a phone call about this and had an appointment. I could not get a hold of my salesperson, Bari, until that Monday who told me that the vehicle was out for 2 weeks, because it was getting it's differential replaced! This was red flag #2. For one, that is a major repair for 48K miles and secondly, two weeks to fix this? Even so, in my quest to have a nearly new 4Runner, I told them to let me know when it was back, so that I could pick it up and have my mechanic look at the vehicle. If it checked out, I was committed to buy it. The price is high, no doubt, but the vehicle is worth what someone will pay for it and if it was as advertised, I was willing to pay for it.
The Dealership
I made the trek out there, it took me about an hours drive from Tukwila. I was actually surprised at how many vehicles they had on the lot and how many people were there shopping. That was a good sign, unfortunately the only good thing I could find about them. I entered the sales office (clean, semi organized) and found 4 people on the phone. They addressed me immediately, told me they have no sales people and that the car was out on the lot, unlocked. To have a look and let them know if I want to test drive. That I liked. No pressure. I anxiously trotted to the 2002 and it looked beautiful from 100 yards. The closer I got, the less beautiful she was. A scratch here, a nick there, still no biggie. First thing I did was get down on my knees and view the rear end, where they changed the differential. The first thing I noticed was fresh black paint on the undercarriage followed by a mass amount of rust. Not normal wear and tear rust but an unbelievable amount of rust/cancer. It was obvious that they were trying to cover this up. This is a major issue for this rig. Secondly I popped the hood and had a good look at the engine. Again, major rust over critical parts, especially the frame. Honestly I was pretty shocked to see how bad the rust was. After that, I did not even bother to look at the rest of the truck. At that point I was ready to leave. However, knowing that there were no real tangible reviews of this dealership that I could find, I decided to have a good look at all of their Toyota 4Runners and report my findings.
Every one that I looked at, the same exact thing. A crap load of rust all over the undercarriage followed by a mass of rust in the engine area. I am not exaggerating when I say that it was horribly consistent. There was a beautiful Lexus/LandCruiser that I spent some time in. Great outside, great interior but absolutely horrible rust everywhere. What a shame. In each case, where it was possible, I viewed the owners guide which included original dealership locations, and every single time, it was New York where the car's originated from. I propose that New York and all East Coast regions require an undercoat each year that they require a smog/inspection. These cars are making their way to the West Coast to unsuspecting buyers and it is a huge injustice to the less informed.
I also walked around the dealership, all the way to the back where their International work crew were processing new arrivals. I saw dead batteries all around cars, wires pulled out of the dashes, bald tires, etc. It was pretty obvious that they were somewhat of a chop shop, doing what needed to be done to get those cars on the lot.
The most troubling thing I saw were young families looking for vehicles from them. I hope this helps others who are caught up in the fantasy of having a low mileage 3rd generation as I was. On my way home I stopped off at the auto store and bought a bunch of car goodies to spoil my 1999 4R for even thinking of trading her in.
