4R Fails to Start

[angrydog]

4R Fails to Start (Codes P0171 & P0174)

Hello all, So I'm at state college, PA now and temps around here have gone south (<32F). I filled up on gas on Tuesday and didn't touch it till today (Friday) and I tried to start the vehicle three times.

First time; engine ignited and turned off within a second.

Second time; engine turned on and felt vibrations, even the 2WD-4WD shifter was vibrating hard! Then the engine turned off.

Third time; engine turned on but RPM's at first were jumping from 1400-1700 for roughly 10 seconds, then went back to the normal cold start RPM of ~1200 RPM and engine didn't turn off on me this time and RPM's gradually went down as vehicle got warmed up to ~750RPM.

I knew it wasn't the battery as each time the engine turned off, my Bluetooth will still sync up with the vehicle. So I instantly called the local toyo dealership and spoke with a service manager and he said it's because of the recent weather and it's most likely due to moisture in the 'system' (guessing in the fuel lines?). He told me it wouldn't hurt to idle the vehicle for 10 minutes and also told me it would help if I took it out on a highway and open it up (throttle).

Anyways I wait 10 minutes and start driving, after .5 miles of driving the check engine light and another light came on (picture attached). So while driving I called the dealership again and got another service manager and he said the same thing as the previous guy. He also said it was okay to drive the vehicle and the CEL will reset it self. If not bring it in next week as all the tech's went home for the day.

So the point of the thread:

A] Has anyone experienced this?

B] Any gearheads here agree/disagree with the service managers' reasoning? Or is there another reasoning for this problem?

C] Reference thread for future similar problems.

Thanks for checking the thread and hopefully my 4Runner will reset the CEL itself.

 

[PaulB-2006 T4R]

I seriously doubt that at 32* the fuel line is freezing. It could start happening at 0*F but I doubt it. Does gas in PA have 10% ethanol? If yes then it is not a water problem, the ethanol dries up the water. You could try Heet fuel additive but it is over kill on the water in the gas. I live in MPLS and I've had cars sit out in sub 0* and they all fire up.

I suggest finding an OBD-II to see what codes the 4R is putting out or go to the dealership since it is most likely under warranty and have them mix it.

 

[angrydog]

Thank you, Paul and Xiao for the responses. I'm originally from Philadelphia where the car was purchased and I'm not going back for another two weeks. I do not have access to a OBD2 reader and the local Autozone doesn't have a garage/workshop. I'm definitely taking the 4R to the dealership next week to see whats up and what code it throws out. As you both of you mentioned, it's a new vehicle and shouldn't be behaving like this. Heck my '91 Corolla I had started up in below freezing any day of the week. I'll keep this thread updated and more comments are welcome.

@Paul Yes we do have ethanol added to our fuel and I'm going to hold out on adding the Heet fuel additive till I see what the dealership has to say.

 

[harper7]

Weather conditions shouldn't have anything to do with it. Plenty of us have been thru thru all kinds of conditions last winter including some in Alaskan and Canadian winters .

Did it show any symptoms before the gas fill up?Sounds like bad gas to me.As stated ,your dealer should have told you to come in to check the code the CEL is throwing to get an idea of what's going on.

Any autozone and most auto parts stores for that matter have an OBD II scanner that they will help out to get the code and then you can ask here or google to find out what it is. It will be a 4 digit number. Google like for example "Toyota OBD II code 4095" or whatever.
The yellow anti skid warning light means little as it could be anything. I was getting the anti-skid light when I first put my headers on and it was because of the missing O2 sensors before I put a SIM on.

You can reset the CEL light also by disconnecting the battery for 5 minutes and reconnecting but that resets everything electronic back to day one..Get the code before doing that if you do.

 

[harper7]

Thank you, Paul and Xiao for the responses. I'm originally from Philadelphia where the car was purchased and I'm not going back for another two weeks. I do not have access to a OBD2 reader and the local Autozone doesn't have a garage/workshop. I'm definitely taking the 4R to the dealership next week to see whats up and what code it throws out. As you both of you mentioned, it's a new vehicle and shouldn't be behaving like this. Heck my '91 Corolla I had started up in below freezing any day of the week. I'll keep this thread updated and more comments are welcome.

@Paul Yes we do have ethanol added to our fuel and I'm going to hold out on adding the Heet fuel additive till I see what the dealership has to say.

The autozone doesn't need a garage /workshop. They should just go out to the parking lot and plug it in and read it . It right down underneath your steering wheel and takes about 10 seconds. They usually won't clear it but they'll read it.

 

[angrydog]

@Harper Thanks for the reply, Well I didn't sense anything abnormal before filling up nor after as I drove the vehicle home right after filling up (~.5 miles drive to home from gas station). Then today was the first day I started it up. I have only used Exxon 93 ever in this vehicle and I just hit 4K miles. Also, I did indeed ask them If I could take the vehicle in today but they said all the tech guys were out for the day. This is a small town and its a small BMW/Toyo/Scion dealer. I won't be resetting the CEL till the dealer gets the codes.

Also I felt like the vehicle was driving in fail-safe mode or something similar as the 4R was a little hesistant to accelerate and shift.



EDIT: Alright, Let me go check it out.

 

[Quentin]

I seriously doubt that at 32* the fuel line is freezing. It could start happening at 0*F but I doubt it. Does gas in PA have 10% ethanol? If yes then it is not a water problem, the ethanol dries up the water. You could try Heet fuel additive but it is over kill on the water in the gas. I live in MPLS and I've had cars sit out in sub 0* and they all fire up.

I suggest finding an OBD-II to see what codes the 4R is putting out or go to the dealership since it is most likely under warranty and have them mix it.

My understanding was that ethanol pulled water out of the fuel, not dry it up. It can actually pull it out to the point of separation from the fuel and leave you with a fuel water mix.

Best of luck to the OP on the issue. Hope it gets resolved quickly!

 

[angrydog]

So I just went out to Advance Auto Parts (Not Autozone) and pulled four codes.

P0171 - Bank 1 System too Lean.
P0174 - Bank 2 System too Lean.
P0171^Pd - Bank 1 System too Lean.
P0174^Pd - Bank 2 System too Lean.

Pd was in superscript. This is fresh news so haven't searched Google yet, that's next.


EDIT: Btw the truck drove great without any hickups on the way to AAP.

 

[westwind77]

the ethanol dries up the water.

My understanding was that ethanol pulled water out of the fuel, not dry it up. It can actually pull it out to the point of separation from the fuel and leave you with a fuel water mix.

Oh, good ol' ethanol....Paul, ethanol ABSORBS water from the air, it does NOT dry water up!

With the old style fuel if you got water in your tank (boat/car) the water would separate out, making it easy for you to drain the water but keep the fuel, but this is NOT the case with ethanol. The ethanol in gas will retain the water and once it claims enough it will 'phase separate', creating this milky essentially nonburnable fuel that has to be removed and is considered 'toxic waste' and costs big $$$ to dispose of. I work in the marine industry with boats and the massive switch over to the new E10 fuel and the massive headaches it creates in boats because of such an 'open' fuel system. (countless seminars & trainings)

But to get back to the thread, considering many others are way father north that you are, been having colder temps, and no reported problems I doubt that has anything to do with it.

Could it possibly have been some sort of a vapor lock? I had it happen with my old SUV a few times, very similar sounding problems upon start-up.

 

[scanny]

I haven't had a chance to test 4runner in winter yet, but I must tell you that I left my old Ford Escape in airport parking for a week when it was -10 -15C ( around 4 F I think)and it started after a week just fine. So I believe there shouldn't be any issues with 4Runner as well, I would take it to dealership and demand that they either fix it or add to user manual that you can't leave the vehicle outside when it's below 0. Might be gas issue of course, but anyway let them resolve this problem.

 

[harper7]

So I just went out to Advance Auto Parts (Not Autozone) and pulled four codes.

P0171 - Bank 1 System too Lean.
P0174 - Bank 2 System too Lean.
P0171^Pd - Bank 1 System too Lean.
P0174^Pd - Bank 2 System too Lean.

Pd was in superscript. This is fresh news so haven't searched Google yet, that's next.


EDIT: Btw the truck drove great without any hickups on the way to AAP.

Could be several things. Gas cap not tightened down will throw those codes uncrew the cap and retighten it....Possibly some water in the gas. It didn't get enough gas for some reason but runs good now .Do you still have the CEL light?

 

[angrydog]

Could be several things. Gas cap not tightened down will throw those codes uncrew the cap and retighten it....Possibly some water in the gas. It didn't get enough gas for some reason but runs good now .Do you still have the CEL light?

Yes I still do have the CEL, I'm going to go and unscrew and re-tighten the gas cap. Also, the vehicle was on a SLIGHT slope while it was parked for the past few days but I don't think that would be a factor.

I also see that these codes are very common, when I Googled it. I guess this is a first for the 5th Gen 4R forum? Gonna edit the title to help future searchers. As usual I'll update this thread with any new information I get.

 

[Titanpat57]

I'd dump some dry gas in and not fill up at that station again..


WE ARE.........................................

 

[angrydog]

I'd dump some dry gas in and not fill up at that station again..


WE ARE.........................................

PENN STATE!


This was a small station but looked pretty new. It's the only Exxon near me other than one that looks like it was built in the 1920's and rarely do I see people fill up on gas there. I guess it's time to switch the shell, if I find out the cheap gas is indeed the problem.

 

[Titanpat57]

Old Williamsport boy here..

I only had it happen twice in my life, but dry gas and fresh gas cleared it up. I'm not saying it couldn't be an issue with the truck, but seems highly improbable..

good luck, please report back with your findings,

Pat

p.s. Go Penn State!!

 

[harper7]

PENN STATE!


This was a small station but looked pretty new. It's the only Exxon near me other than one that looks like it was built in the 1920's and rarely do I see people fill up on gas there. I guess it's time to switch the shell, if I find out the cheap gas is indeed the problem.

Well if I knew you were a Nittany Lion I probably wouldn't have tried to help you.:hunter:
JK lol
Pitt Panther fan here ....Used to be a big rivalry until you all got scared and went to the Big 10.

Back on topic. I'm pretty sure the CEL light won't reset itself and I stay away from the monkeys at dealerships like they have the plague . You can reset it yourself by disconnecting the neg terminal battery(outboard post) with a 10mm wrench for 5 minutes. Just back the nut off a couple of turns and pull up .You'll have to redo your stereo settings and clock again though after disconnecting.

I have my battery disconnected when working on my truck interior all the time and it's not that big of deal. I do it because I'm leary of the airbags going off when taking off panels and such. Battery disconnected and a airbag can't blow is the theory there. Airbags are big big bucks.First time you start it up after disconnecting the battery it will start and instantly stall so don't freak out,that's normal. The second time it will start and the lights should go out.

 

[angrydog]

Well if I knew you were a Nittany Lion I probably wouldn't have tried to help you.:hunter:
JK lol
Pitt Panther fan here ....Used to be a big rivalry until you all got scared and went to the Big 10.

Back on topic. I'm pretty sure the CEL light won't reset itself and I stay away from the monkeys at dealerships like they have the plague . You can reset it yourself by disconnecting the neg terminal battery(outboard post) with a 10mm wrench for 5 minutes. Just back the nut off a couple of turns and pull up .You'll have to redo your stereo settings and clock again though after disconnecting.

I have my battery disconnected when working on my truck interior all the time and it's not that big of deal. I do it because I'm leary of the airbags going off when taking off panels and such. Battery disconnected and a airbag can't blow is the theory there. Airbags are big big bucks.First time you start it up after disconnecting the battery it will start and instantly stall so don't freak out,that's normal. The second time it will start and the lights should go out.

@Pat First stop on Monday is the dealer, I just don't see whatever the problem was that spooked the computer so bad to show the CEL unless sensors these days are too sensitive. Our football team is doing bad this season IMO, we barley beat Temple this year!

@Harper Lol, Nittany Lions :ak472: Pittsburgh Panthers

I actually do need to take it to the dealer because as I was driving last night, I noticed my ECO light doesn't work nor does the instant how.hard.your.mashing.your.gas.pedal function. I guess since the CEL is on, it's running in some sort of fail-safe mode? To add to that, It feels different when starting the engine (It struggles when it first ignites).

I'm going to the dealer on Monday (This dealer isn't even open on the weekends other than for sales), I'm definitely going into the garage to see what the tech does. I also need to do the 6-month/5k tire rotation.

Btw I did unscrew and re-tighten the gas cap and drive a few, but still no go.

 

[Quentin]

Jeeez, all these PA folk....

LET'S GO.... MOUNTAINEERS! arty:

 

[angrydog]

Jeeez, all these PA folk....

LET'S GO.... MOUNTAINEERS!

West Virgina has a football team? Lol Btw did you add the Tundra to your family?

Just so some perk doesn't come in and say we're going off topic, the truck started up great this morning and I think that it was a one time hic-up.

 

[1000MPH]

Just curious, do you tend to overfill at the pump? Did you park your car in a heated garage after filling up?