4runner on road traction control... or lack there of!

Z

Zeusmotorworks

New member
Maybe I'm not using the proper search terms. Hell, I've built aircraft and race cars, but can't figure this one out. All I find are posts of people wanting to DISABLE on road traction control...

As of today, the Wife's about had it with her 2014 TE Premium. She traded a 6MT FJ (full time "4WD") for it and felt VERY safe in the FJ, and utterly NOT safe in the 4runner. Reason is that she fish tailed the 4runner a couple weeks ago in the rain turning at a stop sign. Ass end jumped out on her with no "beeps" or any throttle intervention what so ever. (I thought these trucks had on road traction control) Then today, she almost slid backwards down a hill due to wheel spin on wet pavement. Again, I thought the traction control button was supposed to turn off this feature that her's does not seem to have. What gives?

Background, the Wife is NOT a normal Wife. She once shredded up the scene on her then CBR600 (108lbs, seriously), off roads, and still has a Triumph Street Triple. She's not a "bad driver" or ignorant/lacking in skill. Although I was not with her for these two events, I'd bet the farm that they are accurate accounts.
 
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Forgot to add, both trucks have the exact same tires. I mean THE same tires. Was a part of the deal on the trade. So that's out as a variable. Granted, the FJ had the huge benefit of both ends pawing at the Earth.
 
Take it to the shop bro. The VSC (Vehicle Stability Control) works so well on these vehicles you can't even do doughnuts on a frozen parking lot in the winter. Seriously. It also has a roll back feature that clicks and beeps a bit but you can't roll back either. Pushing the button disables the VSC but when you turn the vehicle off it resets. Again, if your wife is not making crap up take it in. If there is a problem though there should be a light on the dash. The VSC uses multiple sensors that will ultimately control the ABS independently per wheel and also retard the throttle if necessary.
Oh, and both ends of your FJ do not "paw" the earth in a slippage situation as VSC overrides it.
 
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1engineer said:
Take it to the shop bro. The VSC (Vehicle Stability Control) works so well on these vehicles you can't even do doughnuts on a frozen parking lot in the winter. Seriously. It also has a roll back feature that clicks and beeps a bit but you can't roll back either. Pushing the button disables the VSC but when you turn the vehicle off it resets. Again, if your wife is not making crap up take it in. If there is a problem though there should be a light on the dash. The VSC uses multiple sensors that will ultimately control the ABS independently per wheel and also retard the throttle if necessary.
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It's going in. Even with no lights, no codes, TRAC pops up on the dash if you press the disable button. VSC too if you hold it down more than three secs. Guess that's the part that has me worried. No offense to any techs here, but I hate dealerships and parts stores these days because seems no one can diagnose anything that they can't read on a screen. If there were codes, it would be a no brainer because I KNOW they would find the code(s) at least. With the FJ's I at least know fairly well how to diagnose multiple codes as multiple codes rarely apply to their individual meanings.

1engineer, thanks for the reply. In past forums I was used to helping folks vs asking for help.
 
1engineer said:
Seriously. It also has a roll back feature that clicks and beeps a bit but you can't roll back either.
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LOL, that even works. Just experienced it in the drive way myself (driveways fairly steep). She'd told me that it "got mad at her" if she let it roll back, but I'd not seen/heard it myself. First time she said that, was amused that it had a roll back alarm... but told her she was crazy anyway. After 20-ish years of marriage, you can guess where that came from and went :target:
 
This is probably one of the better VSC systems out there. I know you don't get much snow there but around here in the winter it will not let you get out of shape in 2 or 4WD. It does well.
 
No problem. Anyone who knows a little bit hates to take it to the dealer. Good luck and report back with the results. It should be easy to test in a wet parking lot to see if it is fixed.
On the roll back feature you have to press the brake firmly when you come to a stop on a hill. If you just barely press it and then let up it will give you all those noises.
 
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The owners manual defines it as Vehicle Stability Control (VSC) and on my 14 TE NON Premium it is always on whenever I get above a certain speed. It can be disengaged when using 4wd but even then if you run it above a given speed it re-engages automatically. I have found it to be a wonderful function in my Tundra. It allowed me to drive a narrow winding mountain road almost like I was in a Corvette. I never heard a beep or felt any feedback through the pedals. I belatedly figured it out later that week when I realized I had literally feathered all 4 inside treads on my tires and had to drive with a steering wheel vibration for another 15,000 miles before I got new tires.

You see, while I thought I was Mario Andretti and choosing the perfect line through all those corners, the VSC was actually controlling wheel speed at all four corners electronically through the brakes and throttle control. Without me ever noticing any feedback (it was blinking in the dash but my eyes were outside). So while I was hammering through the corners the brakes were actually dragging the inside tires to "assist" me around them. This is the ONLY thing I could think of to explain why ALL 4 tires had the same scalloping pattern after that 90 mile drive.

While it is a great add on to aide in stability of a vehicle it is not a foolproof device that will automatically fix overdriving that vehicle. It can be overridden with a heavy foot. I'm willing to bet your wife was driving in an area where the rain had been pretty recent and the road was still slick from fluids coming up with the moisture. I hate driving on roads that have had fresh rain and haven't had a chance to displace the oils and goo that washes up but not off. I don't care who you are or what the vehicle is, any rear wheel drive is still going to get squirrelly on a road like that if it is pushed hard enough. I'm not questioning your wife's skills or her comfort level with the 4R. I just don't think the VSC is completely to blame in this instance. At some point the person behind the wheel needs to take some responsibility for losing control of their vehicle. At least until they come out with those self driving ones that we just have to tell a destination to and then sit back and watch.

In 35 years of driving I cannot recall in any incident where I lost control of a car that I could honestly say I was not a contributing factor. Better to learn from something than to blame an electronic device. Besides, how do we know the VSC didn't help her pull it out of the slide instead of just doing a slow loop?
 
3wbdriver,

Appreciate your feedback on the VSC. However, that was not so much in question. The "fishtail" was not her getting "sideways", just the rear stepping out more than she had never experienced in all her driving of her 2007 FJ on the same tires. It's understood that the FJ had the advantage of both wheel sets having power. I figure if she could always keep the nose of my 500whp rally car without VSC pointed in the right direction with four 255s spinning, the 4runner in a 3mph turn should be pretty manageable. The concern was that she was experiencing what she would describe in both instances as excessive wheel spin. Of greater concern, single wheel spin vs two. She knows the difference having experience both on and off tarmac with 4 and 2 wheeled machines.

BTW, both our FJs were 2007s. Mine chimes at you if the VSC cuts in. Although she didn't get hers out of shape, I regularly do. Does the 4runner give you the same feedback?
 
Zeusmotorworks said:
3wbdriver,

Appreciate your feedback on the VSC. However, that was not so much in question. The "fishtail" was not her getting "sideways", just the rear stepping out more than she had never experienced in all her driving of her 2007 FJ on the same tires. It's understood that the FJ had the advantage of both wheel sets having power. I figure if she could always keep the nose of my 500whp rally car without VSC pointed in the right direction with four 255s spinning, the 4runner in a 3mph turn should be pretty manageable. The concern was that she was experiencing what she would describe in both instances as excessive wheel spin. Of greater concern, single wheel spin vs two. She knows the difference having experience both on and off tarmac with 4 and 2 wheeled machines.

BTW, both our FJs were 2007s. Mine chimes at you if the VSC cuts in. Although she didn't get hers out of shape, I regularly do. Does the 4runner give you the same feedback?
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Yes, it does let you know. Light flashes, noises are made etc.
 
Doesn't rain a lot here in Denver (mostly snow or dry) but on my Limited I don't even think I could spin or kick the back out with the AWD/full time 4x4. Anytime I've tried to "test it out" the lights blink and it brings things back in line immediately. It's not as active as the Grand Cherokee I had before but seems to be just a hare further and always there when I need it (or at least when it thinks I need it)

Worst case you could "upgrade" to a LE. Haha.
 
Just for chits, what tires are on the 4runner and at what pressure? Anything else done to the 4runner?

Sounds like something isn't getting or reacting to the signals. Even my 4th gen starts reeling you back in before you even knew you were in trouble. I wouldn't expect anything different from a 2014.
 
Traction Control and VSC

You probably have enough good input but I decided to reply anyway.

During a light rain I turned off Trac but not VSC, Hit the power in a right turn and got good wheel spin but no fishtail. Turned Trac on, tried the same turn again and no wheel spin, I could feel the traction control grabbing and relasing and it just took off. This was in 2wd.
.
Unless your wife really got on the power, I agree with the need to go to the dealer and hope they know how to test and fix it.
 
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bimrunner said:
Yes, it does let you know. Light flashes, noises are made etc.
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And after all this, the data is saved in the computer. I saw it when playing with techstream. I could see my Trac and VSC activity from a recent off-road trip showing speed, gear and maybe date.

Is it being sent to Toyota or the NSA?
 
Thanks for all the replies folks. It's going in.

As for the tires, General Grabber AT2s in stock size. No other mods to the truck.
 
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Hey Zeus, welcome to the forums.
Yep same Saker from the FJCforums....
I have a 14T4R SR5 Premium and I tested my traction control (inadvertantly) and it works. Seems something is going on not for it to over-ride the wheelspin on yours.

Please keep us abreast to the outcome!
 
Saker said:
Hey Zeus, welcome to the forums.
Yep same Saker from the FJCforums....
I have a 14T4R SR5 Premium and I tested my traction control (inadvertantly) and it works. Seems something is going on not for it to over-ride the wheelspin on yours.

Please keep us abreast to the outcome!
Click to expand...

Nice seeing a familiar screen name... yep one of each in the stable now. Really like the 4runner barring this issue. Hell, if they'd wack at least a foot off the back behind the wheels, I'd get one for me too!
 
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