Traction Control on 2010 Limited is dangerous

H

headrush

New member
I have a 2010 Limited. I have long believed my stopping distance with traction control is longer than without, but I haven't tested the theory by measuring stopping distances. I don't like the traction control on my 4runner, but it's the default setting, and we all have to turn if off manually. Hence you have to remember to turn it off every time you start the vehicle, at least when it's slippery or may become slippery. But today I determined that it is dangerous.

A fire truck was behind me with lights and sirens blaring. The car in front of me pulled of to the side of the road and I pulled off behind it. There was snow on the shoulder but my two left tires were on bare, dry pavement. I almost hit the car in front of me. That POS traction control would not stop my vehicle in a reasonable distance. With 2 tires on dry pavement.

4Runners with whatever version of traction control my 2010 has should be recalled. I think when Christmas is over I will contact the NTSB. I should have done this years ago.
 
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headrush said:
I have a 2010 Limited. I have long believed my stopping distance with traction control is longer than without, but I haven't tested the theory by measuring stopping distances. I don't like the traction control on my 4runner, but it's the default setting, and we all have to turn if off manually. Hence you have to remember to turn it off every time you start the vehicle, at least when it's slippery or may become slippery. But today I determined that it is dangerous.

A fire truck was behind me with lights and sirens blaring. The car in front of me pulled of to the side of the road and I pulled off behind it. There was snow on the shoulder but my two left tires were on bare, dry pavement. I almost hit the car in front of me. That POS traction control would not stop my vehicle in a reasonable distance. With 2 tires on dry pavement.

4Runners with whatever version of traction control my 2010 has should be recalled. I think when Christmas is over I will contact the NTSB. I should have done this years ago.
Click to expand...

I understand that was a scary incident, but it's part of understanding how systems work. I too have a 2010 LE and I intentionally ran through the same scenario, but on an empty street in Big Bear last winter with passenger tires in the ice (slick ice not just snow) and driver tires on asphalt. Yes, as expected it caused uneven traction and the ABS system freaked out.

Not sure if there are more intelligent ABS systems out there, but I didn't really expect it to go any better than it did. I had to counter steer a little to straighten it out and lifted on the brakes, but not all the way.

BUT, the point of ABS is to prevent just dragging your tires, which prevents steering and allowing a tire to spin a little bit means you can still give steering inputs while under emergency/heavy braking.

The traction control (are you holding it down for 5 seconds until the second light displays?) being turned off does not shut off the ABS. There are trucks, like the Raptor, that allow for the ABS to be turned off in certain terrain modes like Sand where locking up the tires is more beneficial than ABS.

I highly recommend you go out to empty areas and put the truck through some varied traction scenarios to get a feel for how it will respond. After a while, it becomes second nature and you'll find yourself expecting what it's going to do and how to handle it best.
 
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My Toyota has not ever let me down, but I remember once I had to make a panic stop in a different vehicle I had. I barely stopped in time, but I managed.

The feeling was simply… that I used as much braking power as was available. My foot was pressing hard on the pedal, ABS did not engage, nor did I skid, so the need was not there. The tires did their job and gripped, but the power assist was simply all that could be applied by the hydraulic system.

A different occasion in wet conditions, I did feel ABS engage and it does feel like the brakes are letting up while the ABS pump buzzes. The system can detect loss of traction faster than a driver can, so when ABS engages, it feels to the driver like it’s modulating braking assist when there was still usable power left to apply.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
You’re asking the braking system to stop a nearly 5,000 pound, high center of gravity, soft suspension SUV using only two wheels in your scenario.

It’s a bit of a stretch to stop on a dime with all four wheels on dry pavement, so I think you need to temper your expectations here. Did you do a panic stop during your test drive before you bought the 4Runner at all?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
headrush said:
I have a 2010 Limited. I have long believed my stopping distance with traction control is longer than without, but I haven't tested the theory by measuring stopping distances. I don't like the traction control on my 4runner, but it's the default setting, and we all have to turn if off manually. Hence you have to remember to turn it off every time you start the vehicle, at least when it's slippery or may become slippery. But today I determined that it is dangerous.

A fire truck was behind me with lights and sirens blaring. The car in front of me pulled of to the side of the road and I pulled off behind it. There was snow on the shoulder but my two left tires were on bare, dry pavement. I almost hit the car in front of me. That POS traction control would not stop my vehicle in a reasonable distance. With 2 tires on dry pavement.

4Runners with whatever version of traction control my 2010 has should be recalled. I think when Christmas is over I will contact the NTSB. I should have done this years ago.
Click to expand...

That's your problem right there, traction control is for traction not breaking. It has noting to do with breaking and everything to do with acceleration traction.

Sounds like you have issue with ABS as others have said. ABS improves the ability to maneuver while breaking hard. Some ABS systems are terrible and the 4Runner is definitely not terrible but it has its place. You don't want to use ABS where you need dirt to build up in front of the tire to help slow down/stop.

I think your issue was the snow not ABS, definitely not traction control.
 
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ABS (anti-lock brake system), not traction control.

All the tech in the world can't overcome the laws of physics, and situational awareness.

My advice: Get some snow and in particular ICE tires. Pay attention to your surroundings. Drive with care when snow and ice are present.

EDIT> It should also be noted that none-snow & ice tires lack grip when the temps are below about 45° F. The "bare pavement" also likely had some dirt and/or fine sand on it, reducing the available traction.

Sorry, but this is more about lack of understanding of vehicle dynamics, how conditions effect those dynamics, and just plain driver error.
 
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With no ABS, your 2 left tires would brake while your right 2 tires would slide = counterclockwise spin into the vehicle stopped on the shoulder or into the path of the approaching firetruck.
 
Totally agree with OP- having lived in the mtns for 20 years. You'll be pulling into a frozen parking lot, slowing down appropriately and then boom the ABS sense a slip and instead of helping it adds extra feet to your stopping distance.

It feels like the pedal as it's depressed suddenly releases what stopping power it was applying - scary as hell. And it's not the same as when the ABS senses a total slide and it hammers the ABS and helps. This is different and perhaps when only some wheels are sliding and some not. Scary as hell and not helpful at all.

Also love when Skynet kills the gas pedal too that's a great (not really) feature.

Skynet is going to get someone killed.
 
just use scissors and cut wheels speed sensor wires. your all problem will be solved and you will be guest of honor on your funeral.
 
Teamoatmealpie said:
Totally agree with OP- having lived in the mtns for 20 years. You'll be pulling into a frozen parking lot, slowing down appropriately and then boom the ABS sense a slip and instead of helping it adds extra feet to your stopping distance.

It feels like the pedal as it's depressed suddenly releases what stopping power it was applying - scary as hell. And it's not the same as when the ABS senses a total slide and it hammers the ABS and helps. This is different and perhaps when only some wheels are sliding and some not. Scary as hell and not helpful at all.

Also love when Skynet kills the gas pedal too that's a great (not really) feature.

Skynet is going to get someone killed.
Click to expand...


Throttle input gets reduced / suspended while ABS or traction lights are on?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Teamoatmealpie said:
Totally agree with OP- having lived in the mtns for 20 years. You'll be pulling into a frozen parking lot, slowing down appropriately and then boom the ABS sense a slip and instead of helping it adds extra feet to your stopping distance.

It feels like the pedal as it's depressed suddenly releases what stopping power it was applying - scary as hell. And it's not the same as when the ABS senses a total slide and it hammers the ABS and helps. This is different and perhaps when only some wheels are sliding and some not. Scary as hell and not helpful at all.

Also love when Skynet kills the gas pedal too that's a great (not really) feature.

Skynet is going to get someone killed.
Click to expand...

but locked brakes/tires on a frozen parking lot wouldn't cause you to slide a few feet forward anyway?
 
02SE said:
ABS (anti-lock brake system), not traction control.

All the tech in the world can't overcome the laws of physics, and situational awareness.

My advice: Get some snow and in particular ICE tires. Pay attention to your surroundings. Drive with care when snow and ice are present.

EDIT> It should also be noted that none-snow & ice tires lack grip when the temps are below about 45° F. The "bare pavement" also likely had some dirt and/or fine sand on it, reducing the available traction.

Sorry, but this is more about lack of understanding of vehicle dynamics, how conditions effect those dynamics, and just plain driver error.
Click to expand...

it's gotta be that old Toyota's unintentional acceleration glitch making its way back
 
there are many factors.. tires, brakes etc. on my oem trd pro tires and brakes. there were some braking issues. no more issues since i changed out tires and brakes. also with abs braking, and all emergency braking, you need to put your weight into the brake pedal, some people tend to go easy on the brakes when abs kicks in.
 
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