blk-4runner
Banned
You should come with us to hollister hill this weekend on Sunday the 23rd and test them out.
4th Gen Disconnecting Sway Bar Set-Up
- Thread starter BlackWorksInc
- Start date
You should come with us to hollister hill this weekend on Sunday the 23rd and test them out.
BlackWorksInc
New member
Oooh, a Sunday run I can probably do and I'd like to stress test it a bit...
BlackWorksInc
New member
Okay so, I decided to say screw it on going back to SJ to cut the 17mm flat spots (ironically a light zap from the impact and the pin held fast, didn't even need to use vice grips like I had thought without the 17mm flats) and tried to install my Frankenstein-like monstrosity in today with mixed results. For the most part it works like I designed, for the most part...
The install went okay with the vehicle in the air, though I realized very quickly I had designed my jig with the sway bar upside down... which meant that the disconnect was now on the passenger side instead of the driver's side! DOH! The good news is that it didn't matter in terms of the design or installation.
The biggest issue during install was that the heim joints had significantly less range of motion than I needed (as I had suspected) and my offset spacer was slightly off; compounded with the limited range of motion I had to get a longer bolt and some over sized nuts to create a longer offset spacer. I also had to cut the heim joint sway bar link down some as well because the lack of motion made it difficult to install and remove.
After I installed it I drove it a few hundred feet to get the suspension to reset to normal and tried to remove the section. This is where I ran into a couple problems.
~Though I designed the entire joint further back behind the scrub zone of the tire, I still had slight contact at full turn. Whether this is due to the reversal of the sway bar when I fabricated it or the result of improper measurements I am not entirely sure. This would be fairly easy to correct I believe, should be able to reduce the bridge between the pins from 1" to .5" and set the pins back an additional .25~.5" and gain the clearance I originally planned for.
~The next issue was that no matter what surface level I had the vehicle on the bar contacted the lower spring perch of my OLW 2.5" coilovers. This isn't entirely a new issue as I have seen small impact scuffs where the OEM bar must have been contacting in the past, I have the sway bar relocation blocks installed, but I feel this might be due to the OLW coilovers being a bit beefier than the stock units more than an error on my side. Still unacceptable in my book as I want this unit to fit most any OEM and Aftermarket set-up as I may switch to different lift kits in the future. I haven't entirely considered a fix for this issue.
~The next issue I ran into was a combination of the limited range of motion of the heim joints and the sway bar contacting the spring perch; this slightly limited the full right turn position as the sway bar couldn't physically articulate the entire way, not by much if any amount noticeable to the driver. Still unacceptable for my design standards and will probably be alleviated when addressing the prior two issues.
I decided the issues I ran into were just too restrictive to properly test the prototype and swapped back to my OEM sway bar for the moment. Something to note though; who ever said they didn't notice a difference without a front sway bar must be on crack or drive like a grandma. I took two turns near my work I always take sharp and hard with the swaybar disconnected and I thought I was not only driving a GM or Ford truck, but that I was gonna flip my rig! So yeah, not doing that again!
I was hoping that the prototype would fit and function roughly 100% and I could just make my adjustments to small details on paper and call it done; but that's why its called a prototype. So far I would say that the prototype proved my concept and proposed functionality; albeit there were enough small problems that I couldn't properly field test it.
At this point I'm going debating if I should try and adjust the design I have currently or scrap it and start from the ground up (not entirely sure where I'd go with that really since this design seemed most logical in the first place.) Not giving up on the design since it does actually work and just needs some adjustment, I am just not entirely sure when I will get the time and materials to make a second prototype; I do have one or two other projects I wanted to test out before Fall.
The install went okay with the vehicle in the air, though I realized very quickly I had designed my jig with the sway bar upside down... which meant that the disconnect was now on the passenger side instead of the driver's side! DOH! The good news is that it didn't matter in terms of the design or installation.
The biggest issue during install was that the heim joints had significantly less range of motion than I needed (as I had suspected) and my offset spacer was slightly off; compounded with the limited range of motion I had to get a longer bolt and some over sized nuts to create a longer offset spacer. I also had to cut the heim joint sway bar link down some as well because the lack of motion made it difficult to install and remove.
After I installed it I drove it a few hundred feet to get the suspension to reset to normal and tried to remove the section. This is where I ran into a couple problems.
~Though I designed the entire joint further back behind the scrub zone of the tire, I still had slight contact at full turn. Whether this is due to the reversal of the sway bar when I fabricated it or the result of improper measurements I am not entirely sure. This would be fairly easy to correct I believe, should be able to reduce the bridge between the pins from 1" to .5" and set the pins back an additional .25~.5" and gain the clearance I originally planned for.
~The next issue was that no matter what surface level I had the vehicle on the bar contacted the lower spring perch of my OLW 2.5" coilovers. This isn't entirely a new issue as I have seen small impact scuffs where the OEM bar must have been contacting in the past, I have the sway bar relocation blocks installed, but I feel this might be due to the OLW coilovers being a bit beefier than the stock units more than an error on my side. Still unacceptable in my book as I want this unit to fit most any OEM and Aftermarket set-up as I may switch to different lift kits in the future. I haven't entirely considered a fix for this issue.
~The next issue I ran into was a combination of the limited range of motion of the heim joints and the sway bar contacting the spring perch; this slightly limited the full right turn position as the sway bar couldn't physically articulate the entire way, not by much if any amount noticeable to the driver. Still unacceptable for my design standards and will probably be alleviated when addressing the prior two issues.
I decided the issues I ran into were just too restrictive to properly test the prototype and swapped back to my OEM sway bar for the moment. Something to note though; who ever said they didn't notice a difference without a front sway bar must be on crack or drive like a grandma. I took two turns near my work I always take sharp and hard with the swaybar disconnected and I thought I was not only driving a GM or Ford truck, but that I was gonna flip my rig! So yeah, not doing that again!
I was hoping that the prototype would fit and function roughly 100% and I could just make my adjustments to small details on paper and call it done; but that's why its called a prototype. So far I would say that the prototype proved my concept and proposed functionality; albeit there were enough small problems that I couldn't properly field test it.
At this point I'm going debating if I should try and adjust the design I have currently or scrap it and start from the ground up (not entirely sure where I'd go with that really since this design seemed most logical in the first place.) Not giving up on the design since it does actually work and just needs some adjustment, I am just not entirely sure when I will get the time and materials to make a second prototype; I do have one or two other projects I wanted to test out before Fall.
ARK_SWAMP_RIDER
New member
In your OP you mentioned the "benefits" of running without the swaybar. My understanding is the front swaybar limits flex. Have you actually measured this? One of the first things I did when I switched to my Icon extended travel was remove the swaybar, but I never took measurements. Since I'm only driving my 4runner on road now, I decided to put the swaybar back on. Even with an extended travel front setup, the swaybar didn't change the amount of droop at all. I know I hear about removing it a lot, so I'm thinking I'm missing something and figured this would be a good place to ask.
Great work btw, that looks very promising!
Great work btw, that looks very promising!
the sway bar has one job, to keep the tires as close to level as possible in relation to each-other. So the big issue is on up travel, in most off road cases, you will be driving on an uneven surface (one wheel needs to be stuffed and the other needs to be reaching for the ground. BUT, the stuffed tire (via the Sway bar) is pulling the opposite tire up with it. this can be an issue if you are of camber as it will make the side that is not being stuffed compress slightly potentially sending onto you side.
Now to be honest, I have been running both of my 4th gens with no sway bars ever since I did the coil overs, and I can corner at speed with confidence.
ARK_SWAMP_RIDER
New member
That makes sense, thanks. I was measuring a single wheel, not both in relation to one another.
I have driven quite a bit without a swaybar and didn't think it was too bad. However, after putting it back on, I can say it is much flatter in turns.
BigBluePile
New member
Interesting project!
having fun
New member
I can't remember where/or who, but, they ramped there 4r up a 18"-24" on one side. With and w/out the SB, they showed a 3 1/2" difference in compression travel.
zopperman
Moderator
hey [MENTION=66389]BlackWorksInc[/MENTION]
check this out
bjmoose fabricates 2nd gen sway bar disconnect - Tacoma World Forums
check this out
bjmoose fabricates 2nd gen sway bar disconnect - Tacoma World Forums
BlackWorksInc
New member
Yeah his idea is similar to the original one I used as a reference (the red one in the thread), though I don't approve of his choice in materials. He's using "Plain Steel" when he should be using a Chromoly steel (I believe I settled on 4140 if I remember right) to match the strength and properties of the sway bar properly, not to mention using the proper welding rod as well. The reason for choosing the harder to machine, more expensive steel was because it has better mechanical properties and is essentially the same as the sway bar. Where as his unit is now weakest at the welds and the material he is using, this means that over time or under serious strain when connected that section of sway bar will bend/break easier than if it was solid/uncut or using 4130 or 4140 steel (the closest approximation based on research of the metal used in an Automotive sway bar without doing a lab test).
I would have to say that while his idea isn't bad, his execution has me worried for the longevity and durability of his design. I'd post in his thread about some suggestions or even link my project, but I have no account there. lol
zopperman
Moderator
Gotcha. I can link it over there if you want with my TW account :behindsofa:
Also notice the taco sway is solid steel?
BlackWorksInc
New member
I did find that interesting, I wonder why they made the Tacoma's Solid and the 4Runner/FJ Cruiser's Hollow? If you want to link it there, that's fine with me I don't mind.
BlackWorksInc
New member
Not that I am aware of, the link I posted in the first post of the thread was to a member on the FJ Cruiser forums who had someone make a one-off piece. I am not sure if they still make them per order or not.
My own design actually works, but I never got around to making a second prototype to fine-tune the design and adjust measurements and tolerances. So at the moment, its a proven design; but requires some detail work to make production ready.
JustSomeName
New member
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/general-discussions/167446-group-buy-3rd-5th-gen-sway-bar-links.html
This guy seems to make them, but not sure if they're good or not.
BlackWorksInc
New member
The only issue is those are rear sway bar links for the 4th gen last time I checked and even if you did make front disconnects you still have the issue of the sway bar becoming a hazard under flex.
Just something to point out.
JustSomeName
New member
i know you probably dont have them, but what do you think of the design of his disconnecting rear links? ive been back and forth on whether or not I want to get them and haven't heard much about them from any 4th gen members here on t4r
BlackWorksInc
New member
I honestly don't know why you need to disconnect the rear sway bar, if you have extended links on the rear it shouldn't limit axle articulation on most lifted 4Runners.
But his design is similar to what I was going to do for my disconnecting link on the front, as long as the hardware/material can stand up to the stress it shouldn't be an issue.
JustSomeName
New member
correct me if im wrong, but isnt the idea to disconnect the rear swaybar is so that the rear axle has the abilty to flex without being limited by the swaybar connecting it to the frame?
Similar threads
