4th gen e-brake riddles. Need help

[werminghausen]

I checked my 4th gen T4R (4.7L) e-brakes before driving to the yearly inspection.
Bummer: Braking was bad. Engine could pull off with below 1000 rpm with e-brake fully engaged.
I think the gas station is required to test e-brakes here with 1500rpm.

I tried to adjust pads with the small star wheel at each side drum.... did not help much.
The fact that I never use the e-brake might not help here in general.

So I thought I need to do the e-brake job and bought a set of replacement parts from Beck Arnley: pads and all hardware. Not sure about the quality with Beck Arnley. Some parts like the star wheel I did not use from their kit. The old one was better.
I did not buy new drums/disks because the old one seemed fine.

I installed the pad set (what a pain job) , adjusted the pads with the star wheel and
tested the new pads.......NO!

It was slightly better but not much. The car could still take off below 1000rpm.

Then I removed the middle console and adjusted the cable in addition. There was a lot of slack.
But the adjustment did not do much either. But now the brakes at least did hold 1200rpm.
I then was driving around with pulled e-brake to break it in...did not do a thing.
Then I removed the drums again and cleaned everything as good as possible. No improvement. No help came that day.

I am honestly at a loss what my problem might be?

What factors am I missing?
Brake pad quality from Beck Arnley?
Bad Bowden cable (too soft/damaged, not allowing enough force to develop on the brake pad)?

Or is the T4R design just so poor that it cannot hold the 1500 rpm torque of the V8?

Please help.

Martin

 

[Warwicke36]

Why do you need your 4runner to hold at 1500 rpm? Our state requires it to hold at idle for state inspection purposes. Thats less than half of the 1500 you're after.

 

[Bassturd]

Maybe the drum portion of the rotor that the shoes push up against is oversized? Sounds like you’ve checked and adjusted about everything else.

 

[werminghausen]

Why do you need your 4runner to hold at 1500 rpm? Our state requires it to hold at idle for state inspection purposes. Thats less than half of the 1500 you're after.

It is not me, it is the local state inspection.

 

[Warwicke36]

It is not me, it is the local state inspection.

Wow seems excessive. Do the inner hats of the rotors have a rust ridge. Are the pads only making contact with that ridge (in other words bottoming out on a very small contact area) before hitting the rest of the inner hat (drum like area)?

 

[AuSeeker]

Sound like you don't have the shoes adjusted properly, you should tighten the shoes/star adjuster until it locks up the drum/rotor then back the adjustment off until you can just turn the drum/rotor.

 

[gaber6]

Sound like you don't have the shoes adjusted properly, you should tighten the shoes/star adjuster until it locks up the drum/rotor then back the adjustment off until you can just turn the drum/rotor.

Then after the inspection back it way off so you don't burn it up.

 

[werminghausen]

Wow seems excessive. Do the inner hats of the rotors have a rust ridge. Are the pads only making contact with that ridge (in other words bottoming out on a very small contact area) before hitting the rest of the inner hat (drum like area)?

.


The drum looked almost new to me inside, no ridge at the edge from wear.
So I am assuming the pad is touching the drum properly.

I also adjusted the pads already very tight. The pads will drag some in that state.

But for my flavor the brake pads really don't grab or bite as I'd expect to be honest.

Does Beck Arnley has a bad reputation?

It seems there is no easy cure.

 

[AuSeeker]

.


The drum looked almost new to me inside, no ridge at the edge from wear.
So I am assuming the pad is touching the drum properly.

I also adjusted the pads already very tight. The pads will drag some in that state.

But for my flavor the brake pads really don't grab or bite as I'd expect to be honest.

Does Beck Arnley has a bad reputation?

It seems there is no easy cure.

The owner;s manual says you should only get 5 to 7 clicks when depressing the E-brake pedal to fully engage the E-brakes, if you're getting more clicks than that then you still have some slack in the cables/adjustments somewhere.

 

[werminghausen]

The owner;s manual says you should only get 5 to 7 clicks when depressing the E-brake pedal to fully engage the E-brakes, if you're getting more clicks than that then you still have some slack in the cables/adjustments somewhere.

Thanks, yes I read about the amount of clicks but in my case I don't hear any clicks. I don't know why. There is no slack in my cables any more. if I go any further e-brakes will engage/drag without stepping on the e-brake.
Question is why do I not notice or hear any clicks?

Martin

 

[werminghausen]

Massachusetts inspection requirement:
I read now that they test the ebrake in MA up to 1300rpm. Some interpretation said from 1000- 1300 rpm. However technically they can decline me if the car moves at 1200.

I am doing one attempt tomorrow and try to get the sticker. I tightened pads and cables so the ebrake is dragging a bit now but it holds 1200rpm...no more.

I [again] cannot explain why that is happening with new pads and everything in order .
If I fail inspection I am at a loss. I could buy ceramic brake pads possibly if people think they will bite much better.

The other mystery is: no klicking down at the ebrake pedal! Is there an explanation to it?

Thanks Martin

 

[MikeinNH67]

Mine doesn't really click either or maybe it's just too quiet to hear. If they fail it you could try bedding them similar to as you would normal brakes. Run them down pretty tightly then drive a bit to heat them up so some brake pad material gets embedded into the drum part, release it before coming to a full stop. That may give you some stickiness to the brakes.

Otherwise maybe it's time for new cables, they may be stretching like a rubber band.

 

[werminghausen]

Thanks Mike.
Yes probably you are right that the old cables are too elastic. I don't think the steel tension cable itself is the issue but the coil sleeve around holding against the tension of the cable could be damaged and cause an elastic effect?
Has anyone exchanged these 2 e-brake cables? How difficult is this?
Best, Martin

 

[Montego Murph]

I never see this tip listed anywhere, but I had good results with this:

When adjusting the star wheels, compress the brake calipers first so that the brake pads aren't dragging on the rotor. That makes it a little easier to determine when the e-brake shoes are contacting the rotor and to start backing off.

It's been a few years, but I think I adjusted mine as "tightened the star wheel until I couldn't turn the rotor with just my hands, then backed it off 4? clicks" and it's been working flawlessly since then. My parking spot is on an incline so I use mine daily.

 

[AuSeeker]

Massachusetts inspection requirement:
I read now that they test the ebrake in MA up to 1300rpm. Some interpretation said from 1000- 1300 rpm. However technically they can decline me if the car moves at 1200.

I am doing one attempt tomorrow and try to get the sticker. I tightened pads and cables so the ebrake is dragging a bit now but it holds 1200rpm...no more.

I [again] cannot explain why that is happening with new pads and everything in order .
If I fail inspection I am at a loss. I could buy ceramic brake pads possibly if people think they will bite much better.

The other mystery is: no klicking down at the ebrake pedal! Is there an explanation to it?

Thanks Martin

I was going to check my pedal sooner and report back but it slipped my mind....however I did recently check and my E-brake pedal does indeed click when I depress it, although it is very subtle and hard to hear/feel when depress the pedal slowly, much more noticeable when depressed quickly which makes the clicks/ratcheting more audible, also the pedal doesn't click/lock into the first click/position until about halfway down.