5100's and top hats help

[r32]

Dumb question.

Ordered 5100 shocks kit to replace all four shocks. Also ordered T1 and T12 springs from wheelers.

Just got the shocks in hand and realized the 5100's don't come with top hats. I see guys ordering the KYB SM5640 mount kit.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00C7S0KA8/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_RzKBAbQYNXG4H

I need two of these for the front.

But what do I order for the rear? From manual diagram looks like there are some washers, cushions and a lower bracket?

 

[MRpink]

You don’t need anything additional for the rear, all the parts are included. Just pay attention to the bushing orientation. Check out my build thread for a photo (screenshot toward the bottom): http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/236245-mrpinks-build-thread.html#post2673337

BTW, I have the same setup, you’re gonna enjoy it!

 

[NicNac]

I assume this is for a 4th gen? From a quick search it looks like the rear shocks are mounted in the same manner as my 3rd gen. Should be some washers sandwiching some bushings up top and on the bottom a bolt runs through a bushing with washers on either side. Their should be a washer in the middle of the sandwich up top and it is very important that it still has a sort of collar on it and that it has not rusted off as this protects the shock from wallering out the mounting hole, if the collar is still there you can reuse it. Other than that as long as the other washers and bolt are in good shape you can reuse them. According to MRPink it should've came with new bushings if not you should probably buy some new ones, should be fairly easy to find.

 

[r32]

Thanks guys. Appreciate the fast feedback, as I plan to get it done this weekend. Looks like I have everything I need then.

My first time playing with shock stuff, but I'm excited to try something different and learn things in the process. Will be great experience for when I sell my 4th gen for a 6th gen which I plan to trick out more than this one which I've had since I bought it new in 2008.

Nice writeup Mr. Pink. That will help me! I've been confused on where to set the clip on the shock to create a slight lift in front to get rid of the factory rake.

 

[Terminator03]

Pardon my ignorance, but I’ve read tons of info regarding lifts, spacers, shocks, etc., but haven’t seen anything about these T1/T12 springs. How do they compare to springs such as the FJ, or Tacoma? The reason I ask is someone did shocks and springs on my ‘04 and it rides and handles very well, is slightly higher than most of the stock heights I’ve read listed, but I carry weight in the rear (tools for work) and it’s currently about 5/8” lower in the rear as a result. I never measured it prior to building the storage deck, and loading the tools, but it looked very level, or possibly slightly raised in the rear prior to the load out. What I have for suspension is the yellow/blue factory Toyota Bilsteins, and probably the springs that went with them since the front coils appear thicker than what I’ve seen in pics of stock springs. Not sure what model these came from, but someone in another thread suggested they were likely Bilstein HD from a Tacoma. Anyway, I am just looking at possibly changing the rear springs to something slightly heavier than what I am running to handle the weight, but not ruin the ride quality so I’m curious on the specs of these springs and why they were chosen over others. Sorry for the long post, just wanted to add my current setup since it’s not stock.

 

[r32]

Thanks. I did a ton of reading on here before i ordered and it got overwhelming a bit. It really came down to how much I wanted to spend. Looking at the 6112's, TRD's shocks that require a mod, and 5100's, along with FJ springs, T1/T2, or Old Man Emu (OME) springs.

After reading a lot, I just decided there is no reason for me to pay a ton of money for really high end shocks and springs, as I only do light offroading. My stock setup has lasted 9 years with lots of light offroading through the southern California deserts, Utah, Colorado, Oregon, and a lot in the Sierras which is near where I live.

I'll let you know how they feel, once I install them this weekend. Going to do the measurements today.

 

[Rodtheviking]

Thanks guys. Appreciate the fast feedback, as I plan to get it done this weekend. Looks like I have everything I need then.

My first time playing with shock stuff, but I'm excited to try something different and learn things in the process. Will be great experience for when I sell my 4th gen for a 6th gen which I plan to trick out more than this one which I've had since I bought it new in 2008.

Nice writeup Mr. Pink. That will help me! I've been confused on where to set the clip on the shock to create a slight lift in front to get rid of the factory rake.

The top hats need to go on correctly per side, just match the old ones to it for right and left.

 

[r32]

What is the torque setting for the lock nut at top of front shocks, when tightening to put spring on?

Manual states 18ft-lbs for this nut, but is that what Bilstein also suggests?


2008 4WD Sport

Got my shocks and springs and will have a local shop put the springs on the front shocks since I don't want to mess with the compression part. Just waiting for the new top hats to arrive today.

After doing much research, I decided to go with a zero setting for the 5100 retaining clip. It seems like the zero setting provides plenty of lift when combined with the T1/T12 springs. Any higher and I feel like it would be way to much lift, creating a higher center of gravity which I don't want, and also too much for my 17" tires.

I hope it turns out good.

 

[r32]

Shit.

I called a local place and asked how much for strut assemblies. They said $75 total to do both. Drove there with all the parts.

Super nice guy doing the work and I have him the proper diagrams straight from the manual, etc. They came out misaligned and he told me I could take a punch at time of install and twist around a little to get the right alignment.

That statement the norm?

The mechanic who was very nice but extremely hard of hearing (despite large hearing aid) only wrote me up for $30 total. I left pretty happy.

But like an idiot, I didn't inspect close enough in the bad lighting of their shop and when I got home I noticed on both of them, the top bushing above the top hat squeezed out from the plate. *&^%$!

I assume this is not at all normal and I need to take them back tomorrow and fix? Or are the bushings from the KYB top hats so soft, there is no way to fix and they are likely to do it again upon tightening?

Not only that, despite me giving him large prints of alignment diagram for coin and top hats, the alignment is still off. He told me the alignment could be adjusted by placing a large punch through the bottom hole and twisting carefully until it's aligned. True or false?

Not happy right now.

 

[Terminator03]

Shit.

I called a local place and asked how much for strut assemblies. They said $75 total to do both. Drove there with all the parts.

Super nice guy doing the work and I have him the proper diagrams straight from the manual, etc. They came out misaligned and he told me I could take a punch at time of install and twist around a little to get the right alignment.

That statement the norm?

The mechanic who was very nice but extremely hard of hearing (despite large hearing aid) only wrote me up for $30 total. I left pretty happy.

But like an idiot, I didn't inspect close enough in the bad lighting of their shop and when I got home I noticed on both of them, the top bushing above the top hat squeezed out from the plate. *&^%$!

I assume this is not at all normal and I need to take them back tomorrow and fix? Or are the bushings from the KYB top hats so soft, there is no way to fix and they are likely to do it again upon tightening?

Not only that, despite me giving him large prints of alignment diagram for coin and top hats, the alignment is still off. He told me the alignment could be adjusted by placing a large punch through the bottom hole and twisting carefully until it's aligned. True or false?

Not happy right now.

I wouldn’t be either! I’ll let people with your shock setup chime in, but to me it looks as though he just used an impact gun to tighten the assembly, which is fine, but he may have overtorqued it, causing the bushings to deform way too much. Generally, you only need to tighten until it just bulbs out a bit more than the washer diameter. I usually do the main assemblies with the impact, but tweak at the end with a wrench, or socket by hand to get the final torque right. I can’t speak to the alignment adjustment on these trucks as I haven’t had mine long enough to play with that yet.

 

[r32]

Not only that. They are misaligned too. Factory diagram shows specific alignment for bolt pattern vs bottom end of spring facing outside of vehicle vs. shock attachment hole facing front/back. One of them is off 15d or more, and the other is off a ridiculous amount. :redbrick:

On top of that, I'm pretty sure he did not torque the lock nuts to spec at all. I gave him detailed printouts, super easy to understand diagrams, shit was highlighted for ease of reading and everything too.

Also unclear is how do you guys align your shocks? Manual states the end of the coil should face towards the left and rights of the vehicle. But coils are designed in same direction. Am I reading this wrong? How can one do this on both sides?

 

[Rodtheviking]

Top nut is over torqued, hopefully it didnt damage the bushings. You can install the top hat in the mount and leave the bottom of the shock hanging, use a round bar in the lower hole and twist the shock into position. It's a pain but can be done. I would loosen the top shock nut to help then retorque to spec, that is if the bushings are good. This is why I had Wheelers do mine when I bought everything.

Personally I would take it all back and make them do it properly.

 

[r32]

Do you know the proper torque setting? 15ft-lbs in manual for OEM. 20ft-lb reported on a Tacoma site for 5100s.

Not wanting to deal with the first shop incompetence again, I took them to a second shop this morning. They didn't even want to touch them. :mad2:

Looks like I'm going to have to go down to local auto parts store, get the spring compression tool thing and fix this myself, and hope to god I don't kill myself if the undoubtedly cheap spring compression tool slips.

Maybe I'll just take them back to first shop and demand they fix the shit right.


UPDATE: Called Wheelers. Super nice guys. They said there is no torque spec on the top bolt. Also said that as long as they didn't tighten it down so much that it damaged the bushing, when I put in on the vehicle, the weight of the vehicle would compress the spring and free up the smashed bushing. Sound right? I'm new to strut/shock stuff so learning as I go. Going to be pissed if both top bushings are damaged.