5th Gen 4Runner w/ a Supercharger or 2025 4Runner Hybrid?

[Bmnorm2]

The hybrids and super laden trims weigh much more, but otherwise the weight gain isn't anywhere near that dramatic.

5th gens range from 4400 to 4800 lbs. Nonhybrid 6th gens are from 4455 to 4970 lbs. So yes, 170 lbs on the heavy end (Limited etc trims), but only 55 lbs on the lower SR5-level end, just over 1% heavier than before. Probably wouldn't have gone up at all on the light end if they didn't make it pointlessly longer and wider than before (and longer than the LC250).

I'd like to think of myself as a competent 5th gen hypermiler lol. I absolutely take running shots up to big hills and then bleed speed slowly, rather than letting it scream in third gear. And in a typical highway situation, I cruise about 70-72mph in it. It's just peaceful, quiet, and relaxing at those speeds, in a way that it is not at 80mph+.

Curb Weight, GVWR, Towing Capacity for 6th Gen 4runner (2025+) | 2025 4Runner Forum (6th Gen) Community - 4Runner6G.com

I explicitly said 6gen HYBRID which weighs 5225 to 5550 lbs. Compared to 4400-4805 lbs for 5th gen that is exactly the 420 - 1100 lbs more that I stated.

The 6th gen non hybrid is very much competitive with 5th gen weight, as you stated.

Sounds like we drive very similarly. I don’t find driving the 4Runner “like a car” rewarding. Rather it’s burdensome. My corvette on the other hand…

 

[thatoneguy]

I could do better MPG wise, but I have larger than stock tires with an A/T tread, and they are load range E, for the much stronger tire casing. Which is important on the 4wd trails my 4Runner is driven on. Being larger, more aggressive, and much heavier than the stock tires, it is understandable that my MPG would drop. But I knew that would be the case before I switched the tires.

I feel pretty good knowing that my old, antiquated 5th gen, is getting comparable MPG to the latest Landcruisers and 4Runners. Which are driving in the same area, but I'm running much heavier and more aggressive tires than they currently are.

Having owned numerous Toyota trucks and SUV's over the years, and even having worked on them at the dealer level at one time, I was excited about these new models. Having driven them, seeing how they are made, and what they are capable of in the real world, I am no longer all that excited about the new models.

My hope is that the new powertrains prove reliable, AND that Toyota improves the material quality and fit and finish. Because there are some REALLY CHEAP aspects of these new models which are just sad, and an insult to long-time Toyota owners.

There's absolutely some 6th gen cheapness I do not appreciate. My 2023 ORP door cards are nicer than any 6th gens, with the soft touch fabrics and plastics throughout. I dislike the move to space-saver temporary spares on non-offroad-oriented models. I also dislike the SR5's getting dumbed back down to 30.5" tires, and the general lack of skid plates unless you spend big money now.

Not to get into a tire war, but I've been offroading my P-metric AT3W Wildpeaks pretty hard for two years now, with no fears or issues. Maybe I'll go with LT C's next time, but not LT E's. If I can pull 25mpg in a 5th gen, I'd ballpark that 30mpg would not be impossible for me doing everything identical in a nonhybrid 2025+.

 

[thatoneguy]

I explicitly said 6gen HYBRID which weighs 5225 to 5550 lbs. Compared to 4400-4805 lbs for 5th gen that is exactly the 420 - 1100 lbs more that I stated.

The 6th gen non hybrid is very much competitive with 5th gen weight, as you stated

Gotcha. Well, massive weight gain can be avoided by not choosing a hybrid model. Makes sense, hybrid batteries are heavy. I've just seen some people think that ALL new 4Runners got WAY heavier, which isn't the case.

Personal call on whether to go hybrid or not. I 100% wouldn't, because I don't need 6.0L V8 levels of torque (the nonhybrids great torque will do just fine), and I don't like that the hybrids pull WORSE on EPA highway fuel economy than the nonhybrids.

The thing that'll truly keep me out of a 6th gen is the size increase though. Not for me unless I have to one day, say if the 5th gen gets totaled and used ones are unacceptably priced.

And yes, I have no sporting pretenses in the 4Runner. My Miata has done 138 on numerous occasions, and I think I hit 90 exactly one time in the 5th gen to just get out of a dodgy interstate truck situation. I think I've sent the tachometer past 5000rpm exactly once as well.

 

[Bmnorm2]

Gotcha. Well, massive weight gain can be avoided by not choosing a hybrid model. Makes sense, hybrid batteries are heavy. I've just seen some people think that ALL new 4Runners got WAY heavier, which isn't the case.

Personal call on whether to go hybrid or not. I 100% wouldn't, because I don't need 6.0L V8 levels of torque (the nonhybrids great torque will do just fine), and I don't like that the hybrids pull WORSE on EPA highway fuel economy than the nonhybrids.

The thing that'll truly keep me out of a 6th gen is the size increase though. Not for me unless I have to one day, say if the 5th gen gets totaled and used ones are unacceptably priced.

And yes, I have no sporting pretenses in the 4Runner. My Miata has done 138 on numerous occasions, and I think I hit 90 exactly one time in the 5th gen to just get out of a dodgy interstate truck situation. I think I've sent the tachometer past 5000rpm exactly once as well.

I agree on all counts!

I’ll add that I really hate the non-flat folding seats. I chose the 2 row w/o tray so that it can effectively be an enclosed and locked pickup bed.

The sad thing is when you weigh 5.2k to 5.5k lbs you need that 6.0L V8 torque just to get moving from a start with any haste or climb steep grades at an acceptable speed.

The 1.87kWh NiMH battery in the hybrid weighs ~93 lbs so I’m not really sure where all the extra weight is coming from. I guess the inverter, traction motor, low gage cables, and other supporting ancillaries add up.

 

[thatoneguy]

I agree on all counts!

I’ll add that I really hate the non-flat folding seats. I chose the 2 row w/o tray so that it can effectively be an enclosed and locked pickup bed.

The sad thing is when you weigh 5.2k to 5.5k lbs you need that 6.0L V8 torque just to get moving from a start with any haste or climb steep grades at an acceptable speed.

The 1.87kWh NiMH battery in the hybrid weighs ~93 lbs so I’m not really sure where all the extra weight is coming from. I guess the inverter, traction motor, low gage cables, and other supporting ancillaries add up.

Yeah, additionally IIRC the hybrid models generally get tougher everything, including tougher, larger diffs. I guess that stuff adds up, but it's still fishy.

I have no interest in an SUV passing the 5,000 lb mark. Others can enjoy their yank tanks, I need a right-sized offroader that doesn't weigh the moon.

Can't STAND the way they screwed up the seat folding. Tumble forward blows. Goodbye sleeping in a 4Runner in the 6th gen. In my 5th gen, I can go on a camping trip with 4 people in the truck, and two of us can sleep in it after folding seats flat. Can't do that in a 6th gen. Appears to solely be a cost-cutting move to have 2/3 row models have the same mechanism. Boo.

 

[Bmnorm2]

Factor in higher cost to buy hybrid
Factor in higher cost to insure
Factor in higher costs to register (in some states)

You would save the difference of all these costs within 5 years using the below assumptions.

13,500 miles/year (US avg)
$3.17 /gallon (US avg)
23 mpg: 6th gen Hybrid Combined fuel economy
17 mpg: 5th gen combined fuel economy

6th Hybrid = 587 gallons/year, $1861/year
5th = 794 gallons/year, $2517/year

$2517-$1861 =$656/year saved

$3000 additional costs/$656 = 4.57 years

If you keep your car for more than 62k miles you would save $.

This is of course ignoring maintenance costs which wonÂ’t really be known until this particular hybrid drivetrain has spent more time in the field.

You would also save 207 gallons/year or 1,035 gallons in 5 years. For some people thatÂ’s reason enough.

And one more just for fun! There are some 283 million registered vehicles in the US including buses, motorcycles, heavy trucks and so on. Let’s assume 200M are passenger vehicles and the same usage assumptions above. Also all 200M are 5th gens this year and all switch to 6th gens next year. That would result in the US using 41 Trillion less gallons/year!

 

[02SE]

There's absolutely some 6th gen cheapness I do not appreciate. My 2023 ORP door cards are nicer than any 6th gens, with the soft touch fabrics and plastics throughout. I dislike the move to space-saver temporary spares on non-offroad-oriented models. I also dislike the SR5's getting dumbed back down to 30.5" tires, and the general lack of skid plates unless you spend big money now.

Not to get into a tire war, but I've been offroading my P-metric AT3W Wildpeaks pretty hard for two years now, with no fears or issues. Maybe I'll go with LT C's next time, but not LT E's. If I can pull 25mpg in a 5th gen, I'd ballpark that 30mpg would not be impossible for me doing everything identical in a nonhybrid 2025+.

If P-rated tires work for you, great. The trails I drive on, they simply do not hold up. EVERY P-rated tire I've taken on the trails I drive, have gotten a flat. Now I can fix most flats on the trail, but I'd prefer not to get them in the first place.

Well, when you buy a 6th gen, let us know what MPG you can get out of it.

The person I know with the non-hybrid 6th gen TRD ORP? They also had a 5th gen TRD ORP. They told me that driving the same roads they have for years, they are averaging the same 18 MPG.

The simple fact is it takes a certain amount of fuel to move a vehicle of a given weight, and aerodynamics, under the same circumstances. The 5th gen and 6th gen (in non-hybrid trim) are very close in that regard, so that their fuel usage would be similar in real world use, is not surprising.

 

[88Center]

Out of the 9 trims, what's the smallest difference between the most expensive non-hybrid, and least expensive hybrid?

 

[Bmnorm2]

Out of the 9 trims, what's the smallest difference between the most expensive non-hybrid, and least expensive hybrid?

The most expensive non-hybrid is the Limited and starts at $55,400.

The least expensive hybrid is the TRD Off Road which starts at $51,990.

The TRD Off Road non hybrid is $49,190.

The Limited hybrid starts at $60,200.

It’s not a flat cost delta when comparing like for like with and without hybrid.

 

[88Center]

The most expensive non-hybrid is the Limited and starts at $55,400.

The least expensive hybrid is the TRD Off Road which starts at $51,990.

The TRD Off Road non hybrid is $49,190.

The Limited hybrid starts at $60,200.

It’s not a flat cost delta when comparing like for like with and without hybrid.

Thx. Then can we assume the hybrid engine adds $4,800 to the cost, based on the value of the non-hybrid vs hybrid of the Limited?

 

[Bmnorm2]

Thx. Then can we assume the hybrid engine adds $4,800 to the cost, based on the value of the non-hybrid vs hybrid of the Limited?

It’s only $2800 between TRD Off Road hybrid and non-hybrid. So they aren’t adding a flat rate.. not sure if there are other things that are added with hybrid in Limited trim.

 

[thatoneguy]

If P-rated tires work for you, great. The trails I drive on, they simply do not hold up. EVERY P-rated tire I've taken on the trails I drive, have gotten a flat. Now I can fix most flats on the trail, but I'd prefer not to get them in the first place.

The person I know with the non-hybrid 6th gen TRD ORP? They also had a 5th gen TRD ORP. They told me that driving the same roads they have for years, they are averaging the same 18 MPG.

The simple fact is it takes a certain amount of fuel to move a vehicle of a given weight, and aerodynamics, under the same circumstances. The 5th gen and 6th gen (in non-hybrid trim) are very close in that regard, so that their fuel usage would be similar in real world use, is not surprising.

If I ever have a problem offroading my P-metric A/T's, I'll go to the longstanding 5th gen Offroading On P-metrics poll/discussion thread and talk about it. Just did another hundred miles offroad in Moab without result last weekend, which is what I expected.

The "simple fact" you state ignores drivetrain efficiency, which varies by technologies and design, and is notoriously not very good on 5th gens, which is kind of what a big resistive V6 with low thermal efficiency and a 5-speed automatic can get you. There's things like the optional hybrid model taking some kinetic energy you normally blow to heat slowing down, and captures it for future use. All the incremental improvements are how the 6th gen, a vehicle with somewhat/slightly better aero, on some trims bigger tires, and similar curb weight to a 5th gen (at least in N/A form), returns noticeably better rated fuel economy than 5th gens.

There is a minimum amount of energy to move a 4800 lb SUV. How much above that minimum you use depends on many varied things, including efficiency of the propulsion system.

 

[02SE]

If I ever have a problem offroading my P-metric A/T's, I'll go to the longstanding 5th gen Offroading On P-metrics poll/discussion thread and talk about it. Just did another hundred miles offroad in Moab without result last weekend, which is what I expected.

The "simple fact" you state ignores drivetrain efficiency, which varies by technologies and design, and is notoriously not very good on 5th gens, which is kind of what a big resistive V6 with low thermal efficiency and a 5-speed automatic can get you. There's things like the optional hybrid model taking some kinetic energy you normally blow to heat slowing down, and captures it for future use. All the incremental improvements are how the 6th gen, a vehicle with somewhat/slightly better aero, on some trims bigger tires, and similar curb weight to a 5th gen (at least in N/A form), returns noticeably better rated fuel economy than 5th gens.

There is a minimum amount of energy to move a 4800 lb SUV. How much above that minimum you use depends on many varied things, including efficiency of the propulsion system.

I've driven the Moab trails since the 80's. Sand and sandstone is pretty easy on tires. They are not many sharp rocks encountered on those trails. So it doesn't surprise me that lighter casing construction P-metric tires are working for you.


Dude, I'm well aware of incremental efficiencies. I worked for years as a Master Tech. These days I use that background in professional racing. In that arena you're always looking for an edge in performance, fuel economy, etc.

I specifically compared the 5th gen TRD ORP, to the 6th gen TRD ORP non-hybrid. As I said, the person I know who owned the 5th gen TRD ORP, and now owns a 6th gen TRD ORP, uses them in the same manner, driving the same routes. It WAS a surprise to the owner that his new 6th gen 4Runner is averaging just about the same MPG as his old 5th gen. Both were/are in completely stock configuration.

 

[thatoneguy]

I've driven the Moab trails since the 80's. Sand and sandstone is pretty easy on tires. They are not many sharp rocks encountered on those trails. So it doesn't surprise me that lighter casing construction P-metric tires are working for you.


Dude, I'm well aware of incremental efficiencies. I worked for years as a Master Tech. These days I use that background in professional racing. In that arena you're always looking for an edge in performance, fuel economy, etc.

I specifically compared the 5th gen TRD ORP, to the 6th gen TRD ORP non-hybrid. As I said, the person I know who owned the 5th gen TRD ORP, and now owns a 6th gen TRD ORP, uses them in the same manner, driving the same routes. It WAS a surprise to the owner that his new 6th gen 4Runner is averaging just about the same MPG as his old 5th gen. Both were/are in completely stock configuration.

I'll let the P-metric tire discussion die by pointing out this thread, and that I'd rather take 128 poll answers saying they're doing fine (I doubt all 128 are only doing ultra light duty offroading) over your personal opinion or anecdotes on the matter. My 5th gen does not weigh a huge amount, so I offroad it on tires that are not rated for huge weights (i.e. LT's, especially LT E's), personal decision working fine thus far for myself and many others. If You Off-road Your 5th Gen with P-metric Tires Please Vote

The person you know is one data point, one anecdote. We don't know if they are accelerating more aggressively than they used to in a wheezy breezy beautiful 5th gen (many people would be happily leaning into the newfound power), or any other factors. Or how different the tires are between the two. But I'm seeing plenty of 6th gen owners reporting a considerable improvement over their prior 5th gens mpg, which is not surprising, and jibes with apples-to-apples EPA mpg improvements.

I nonetheless appreciate the discussion, thanks.

 

[02SE]

I'll let the P-metric tire discussion die by pointing out this thread, and that I'd rather take 128 poll answers saying they're doing fine (I doubt all 128 are only doing ultra light duty offroading) over your personal opinion or anecdotes on the matter. My 5th gen does not weigh a huge amount, so I offroad it on tires that are not rated for huge weights (i.e. LT's, especially LT E's), personal decision working fine thus far for myself and many others. If You Off-road Your 5th Gen with P-metric Tires Please Vote

The person you know is one data point, one anecdote. We don't know if they are accelerating more aggressively than they used to in a wheezy breezy beautiful 5th gen (many people would be happily leaning into the newfound power), or any other factors. Or how different the tires are between the two. But I'm seeing plenty of 6th gen owners reporting a considerable improvement over their prior 5th gens mpg, which is not surprising, and jibes with apples-to-apples EPA mpg improvements.

I nonetheless appreciate the discussion, thanks.

I get it. You want your opinion to always be the final word. The LT vs P-metric tires is only MY experience, as I said. I don't consider others opinions, as they are likely not using their tires in the same place, or manner that I am.

As for fuel economy, I'm just relating the experience of one owner who is not trying to justify anything, other than his own experience to someone he knows.

I've noticed over the years that enthusiasts on websites dedicated to a specific vehicle, often have people who are desperate to convince themselves (and others) that they made the right choice. Often by exaggerating their experience.

Have you ever heard the phrase "Your Mileage May Vary". Comparing my fuel economy to yours is a waste of time. Unless we drive the same route, in the same way, day after day. That's the data point my neighbor has with his past 5th gen, and now his 6th gen.

This discussion IS becoming a waste of time. Believe what you want to believe.

 

[Buffaloe]

Most educated and productive post to address the original question vs some BS "I did mods" unrelated to his question about Magnuson supercharger.

I too looked at the supercharger option for $7000 and another $3000 to have it installed. Decision: No. Installer is an issue. Toyota dealer used to and now they do not back Magnuson. I found no one who could install with confidence and mileage would have been very bad,

If I want torque, I'll buy 2025 4Runner Isomax. Again, wife has Sequioa 2023 ISOMAX and it is excellent with no issues. I'll leave my 2021 4Runner 4.0L alone as its tight and used off-roading in CO. Thanks for intelligent response vs "look at what I did to my 4R."

 

[CutthroatSlam]

If P-rated tires work for you, great. The trails I drive on, they simply do not hold up. EVERY P-rated tire I've taken on the trails I drive, have gotten a flat. Now I can fix most flats on the trail, but I'd prefer not to get them in the first place.

Well, when you buy a 6th gen, let us know what MPG you can get out of it.

The person I know with the non-hybrid 6th gen TRD ORP? They also had a 5th gen TRD ORP. They told me that driving the same roads they have for years, they are averaging the same 18 MPG.

The simple fact is it takes a certain amount of fuel to move a vehicle of a given weight, and aerodynamics, under the same circumstances. The 5th gen and 6th gen (in non-hybrid trim) are very close in that regard, so that their fuel usage would be similar in real world use, is not surprising.

Switched to Cooper AT3 LT “e-rated” tires and we are approaching 80K miles on them. You’d be lucky to see 60K miles from P-rated tires.