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JohnsD90
New member
i like the 1 that is not yours, it looks more like the 5th gen.
and i have noticed that the mid-body style upgrades since the the 2nd gen have really transitioned each body style to the next.
alaskaman
Senior Member
I can't make any ssense of these changes. to eliminate the burger tray is one thing and in cold weather the heated side mirrors are essential but to throw out full time 4WD and lose the Torsen LSD is just weird. That is the frickin reason people buy the 4Runner. Does that mean that 4low and locking the differential is gone as well? What are these Japanese cowhands smoking? I mean seriously.:hunter:
Uneek
Super Moderator
On the Limited, it looks like it's still there. But once in 4L it's locked. The knob shows H4F, H4L and L4L. The flexibility is gone, but I suppose it's to make it easy for the driver. Where as 4th gen 4WD V6 owners, can be in 2H, 4H unlocked, 4H locked, 4L unlocked or 4L locked.
uluafishing
New member
They also discontinued the feature where you only need to briefly turn the key to start (and not hold it until the engine completely starts).
I test drove one the other day, and liked it.
A little disappointed that the LED tails and projector headlights are gone.
I do like the rims on my '07 SE better than the '10 SR5 though...small things that can be easily changed...no big deal.
I test drove one the other day, and liked it.
A little disappointed that the LED tails and projector headlights are gone.
I do like the rims on my '07 SE better than the '10 SR5 though...small things that can be easily changed...no big deal.
The SR5 and TE now have a part-time system with a 2-speed transfer case. They still have 4 low. There is no need to lock the center differential because they don't have one -- it is effectively always locked. When in 4WD (low or high) in the 5th gen SR5 and TE, it is effectively always locked and can't be unlocked.
The 5th Gen Limited still has the lockable Torsen LSD, with 4 high and 4 low. As Uneek said, on the Limited you no longer have the option of 4 low unlocked -- once in 4 low you are locked.
JohnsD90
New member
On the tails i dont see why everyone cares so much, your not constantly staring at them while driving.
LEDs light up faster than incandescent bulbs, so the driver following you gets a little more warning. They are also brighter.
It sounds like some of the posters don't realize that you can NOT drive around on paved roads in 4WD in a part-time 4WD system. It will damage the vehicle. As I mentioned above, this is a drawback to me as sometimes we drive on roads that have snow, ice, and dry pavement.
I'm not sure if Jeep still does it, but they would allow you to pick the transfer case (Part-time, Full-time) that you want in many of their vehicles.
I'm not sure if Jeep still does it, but they would allow you to pick the transfer case (Part-time, Full-time) that you want in many of their vehicles.
That's why we've all been whining about the loss of the lockable, Torsen center diff on the SR5 and TE.
JohnsD90
New member
call me a$$hole but i try to downshift to aviod braking. With that said the guy behind me doesnt get a warning anyway.
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ToyTech99
Guest
They also have extremely long life, unlike conventional taillight bulbs....LED tails should outlast the 4Runner itself.
s. They also consume a lot less power (good for the battery & electrical system).
Plus, they look cool and they are more modern. :bravo:
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ToyTech99
Guest
Downshifting only slows you down gradually...nothing like the decelerative forces of even moderate braking. So a driver behind you doesn't need a warning when you're downshifting.
BTW, downshifting may be fun, but it doesn't make sense to downshift to avoid using your brakes. It's much cheaper to replace brake pads than it is to replace clutches and clutch-related parts.
I e-mailed my friend the General Manager of one of the largest local Toyota dealerships and outlined for him that the loss of the Torsen and center locking differential were the two main reasons I'm not going to trade in and buy a new 2010 Trail Edition. All of the other extras that are being discontinued from the 4th to 5th Generation, I lumped into one extra sentence.
As I posted in the initial stages of the 5th Generation discussion after the specs were released, the Torsen and center locking diff were make-or-break, take-it-or-leave-it deletions and the factory was simply cost-cutting and cheapening the end product(s).
Living in Colorado, driving with the old-part-time 4WD system is a huge step backwards after the Torsen in the 4th Gen. That's why they probably left it in (weather conditions) Canada's models. Leaving out the new six-speed tranny was another deal breaker. Leaving out the 4.6L V8... was another but not as crucial as the Torsen.
Toyota... are you reading/listening? It appears as if you really don't care what the customers are saying. This is exactly what Ford, GM and Chrysler did and look at 'em now. :nono:
As I posted in the initial stages of the 5th Generation discussion after the specs were released, the Torsen and center locking diff were make-or-break, take-it-or-leave-it deletions and the factory was simply cost-cutting and cheapening the end product(s).
Living in Colorado, driving with the old-part-time 4WD system is a huge step backwards after the Torsen in the 4th Gen. That's why they probably left it in (weather conditions) Canada's models. Leaving out the new six-speed tranny was another deal breaker. Leaving out the 4.6L V8... was another but not as crucial as the Torsen.
Toyota... are you reading/listening? It appears as if you really don't care what the customers are saying. This is exactly what Ford, GM and Chrysler did and look at 'em now. :nono:
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ToyTech99
Guest
If sales are slower than projected, then maybe Toyota will do some market research to try and determine why sales are lower than they had hoped. If the torsen center differential surfaces as a primary cause, they could easily make it available across all models.
Somehow though, I think most buyers will just be happy that they can buy a 4wd 4Runner without having a clue about how the system works.
jmc8387
New member
Exactly! How is a new model an improvement if they are taking away features already on prior years? I hate that I feel this way, but Toyota has become absolute crap in the last 5-10 years. I fell in love with Toyota's back in the 80s-90s due to the fact that they actually were better than the competition. They sure are not anymore. A manufacture should never decontent a vehicle as the years go by. Hopefully this will change over the next 1-2 model cycles of each model now that Akio Toyoda is in charge. I would love to see a return of the Toyota that I use to think well about.
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ToyTech99
Guest
Well, it makes me wonder how many other manufacturers do the same thing...
I noticed that Honda deleted projector headlights from the new generation Honda Pilot. So maybe those guys are dealing with the same type of things with their newest generation....
Almost all manufacturers do this in some form or other. The most successful do it to things that most* people won't notice. It might be the full size spare that becomes a temporary donut or two license plate lights being reduced to just one.
My Venza doesn't have a glove compartment lock. I didn't notice it till recently. Do I miss it? Not really. But I'm sure someone, somewhere is proclaiming it to be a sign that Toyota is ready to fail because they've lost touch with those people who really, really, really need that glove compartment lock.
You have a situation in the auto industry where there is huge pressure to keep prices the same (or just marginally higher) while adding features to remain competitive (the 5th Gen now has 8 airbags, backup sensors or a camera, optional Bluetooth without Navigation, Smart Key on the Limited, etc). Something has to give -- unfortunately, it's sometimes things that are noticeable, like the running boards, LED lights, the locking fuel door and in-glass antenna.
Just because people here aren't universally happy doesn't mean Toyota has failed (and vice versa, all of us being happy doesn't mean it'd be a sales success). The real test will be to see how many days of unsold inventory are on dealers' lots through 2010. You won't be able to compare sales volume given that it's highly likely that Toyota has scaled back production to prevent the glut (and huge rebates) that plagued the domestic manufacturers.
* And folks here on an enthusiasts forum fall into the minority that *will* notice any change, small or large.
Same thing happened with the current Accord with the previous gen. The current model moved away from the Optitron-style gauges and LED tails that the previous gen had.
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Not one of these 'improvements' has got anything to do with the trail or off-the-road or winter driving or handling or performance aspects of the 4Runner which has always been a vehicle that can 'take on the weather and off-road' the way it was originally designed for.
I'd take the Torsen and center diff over all that was mentioned, any day of the week.
This just shows me that the 4Runner is now being designed for 'soft use', 'parking lot comfort', designed for metrosexuals and not folks who would really put this vehicle to the test of actual driving in tough weather and off-road conditions.
The Rubicon video that's being touted by Toyota on Youtube, and the Four-Wheeler magazine article that I read and have at the house... simply marketing fluff.
Who really cares about backup sensors and a camera? I'd tell you who but then I'd probably get banned off this forum.
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ToyTech99
Guest
This just shows me that the 4Runner is now being designed for 'soft use', 'parking lot comfort', designed for metrosexuals and not folks who would really put this vehicle to the test of actual driving in tough weather and off-road conditions.
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Really? I think the opposite is true, at least when you're talking about the Trail Edition. A properly equipped 5th gen Trail Edition is most certainly more offroad capable than any 3rd or 4th gen ever made, although I think the '09 Trail would come close because of it's combination of ATRAC and its rear locker.
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