I like XREAS and have it on my 4Runner, but it doesn't help offroad. It works on the road to reduce lean in corners. Offroad, it may even reduce articulation, thereby hurting offroad performance.
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ToyTech99
Guest
Sorry, meant to say ATRAC, obviously. I just responded to another post prior to this one about XREAS, so I had that on my mind.
I agree. I would say the new Trail Edition with ATRAC, rear locker and optional KDSS (electronic swaybar disco), may be the most off-road capable 4Runner ever to come out of the factory. Although, the size may be a drawback compared to 3rd gen's and previous.
The part-time 4WD system is not an issue at all off-road. My complaint for losing the full-time 4WD was for on-road use.
Agree completely. :thumb3:
You're certainly entitled to your opinion. However, Toyota is also charging the customer 35K+ for a vehicle that's got a lot of the 4th Gen features removed. After extras and taxes, this is a 40K 'retro-designed' stripped-down 'potential' off-roader.
For my money, since you mentioned it, I'd take a manual five speed 3.6 V6 third generation 4Runner any day, that will cost ten to twelve thousand fewer dollars. You can put the saved dollars into the third gen, buy top shelf lockers, lift, larger tires, sliders, front and rear bumpers, a winch and more...and have yourself one incredible 4Runner.
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ToyTech99
Guest
Yes, you certainly would. And by the time the 7th generation comes out, you could say the same exact thing about the 5th gen Trail Edition (except for the manual transmission).
The point is that the 5th gen Trail should be pretty darn offroad capable right out of the box. Sure, it sucks that features were removed on the 5th gen, but those projector headlights and LED taillights aren't going to do anything to help on the trails.
Of course, it wouldn't meet current crash protection or pollution control standards.
The points you make keep on changing around from one post to the next.
First it was the removal of the Torsen and center diff. I agreed whole-heartedly that this was the make or break for my purchase. Said this from the very onset.
Then you make the statement re: off-road capable, and you said third generation included.
Are you mixing the two trying to get the one optimum on-road/off-road better/ideal vehicle? If that's the case, I'll take my 4th Gen V8 2007.
Now you're taking it to future generations... pure hypothesis and trying to stir the pot of confusion.
With the current 5th Generation Trail, you can't have your cake and eat it. Or maybe since it's your money, you can and go buy one and tell us how well it works off-road. However, I highly doubt that you or others will take a 40K vehicle off-road, the likes of the Rubicon that the factory did and is marketing to the public.
Did you see the damage to the NEW Trail Edition on the Rubicon's run? It's in Four Wheeler and nobody in their sane mind would take a new 40K vehicle on this off road.
Therefore the main detriment of the 5th generation is the removal of the Torsen and center diff. That's where 99% of the drivers will notice the lesser quality of the 5th generation to the 4th generation. That's what I've stood-by all along.
Hello all, I'm new to the fourm and have been looking at the new 4-runner. I currently have a 08 Tacoma 2WD. My question is about the 4WD system in the base and trail editions. Part time 4WD can't be used for normal driving? I have read the limited version has a full time 4WD system. The Tacoma also has a part time system. If you don't travel off road and use the truck for day day driving in snowy conditions, is this a drawback?- or perhaps I don't fully understand. Thanks for you help.............
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ToyTech99
Guest
It's not me who is dancing around the issues, it's you. First, you say that the 4Runner has become more or less a soccermom vehicle because it lost it's torsen. My response was to say that the Trail Edition is in fact MORE capable than either the 3rd or 4th gen 4Runners.
Then you say that for your money, you'd rather buy a used 3rd gen and use the money you saved (from not buying a 5th gen) to upgrade that used 3rd gen and make it even more capable than a 5th gen. I agreed with you that you could indeed do that. But you are using false economy by comparing a dollar cost to a used 3rd gen versus a new 5th gen. Everyone knows that it would cost less to build up a used 3rd gen instead of buying a new 5th gen. That wasn't even part of the original discussion where you said the 5th gen is losing it's offroad capability. So once again you're comparing apples and oranges, and then trying to sell us on the idea that you'll save money by buying used and upgrading instead of buying new, when the whole point in the first place had nothing to do with money, but rather the offroad capability of the 5th gen.
And trust me, by the time the 7th gen 4Runner hits the streets, there will be plenty of guys modding the 5th gen and using them as trail rigs, just like the guys who are doing that with the 3rd gen today. The same thing you said applies to 3rd gen owners when the 3rd gen 4Runner came out....not many people were willing take their new 4Runners on the Rubicon. I only mentioned the future (7th gen) to illustrate the point that you were trying to make. Just like you prefer to buy a used 3rd gen and mod it for offroad, the same exact thing will be said on this forum when the 7th gen comes out. I'm not trying to stir the pot, I'm just pointing out the obvious. If we fast-forward 12 years from today, someone will be making the argument that it would be cheaper to buy a used 5th gen and mod it for offroad than it would be to purchase a new 7th gen 4Runner.
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Correct. You can't use it on dry pavement. That is true of a Tacoma 4WD as well.
When you go around a corner, the path taken by your front differential is different than the path taken by your rear differential -- your rear wheels (and thus rear differential) cut closer to the curb than your front wheels. That is, the path taken by your rear differential is shorter than the path taken by the front differential, so the rear driveshaft must turn fewer turns than the front driveshaft.
In a part-time system, when you put it in 4WD the front and rear driveshafts turn at the same rate. So when you go around a corner, either the tires slip or you start loading up the drivetrain with added stress. When you are offroad or on snow, the tires simply slip. When you are on dry pavement, the tires can't slip as easily. This why you shouldn't drive a part-time 4WD system in 4WD on dry pavement.
In a full-time system like the Limited, there is a center differential (the Torsen) that allows the front and rear driveshafts to turn at different rates when unlocked, which is its normal mode. When you lock the Torsen center diff, the front and rear driveshafts turn at the same speed, making it behave just like a part-time system in 4WD.
If the road is completely snow covered, then you are fine in 4WD with either a part-time or full-time system (whether locked or unlocked). The snow on the road allows the wheels of the part-time 4WD truck to slip. The Torsen is somewhat preferable because you don't always have a wheel slipping, as you do in a part-time system.
The problem is that in most places you aren't always on a snow-covered road. Where I live, in the winter the road sometimes goes from snow-covered, to partly covered, to wet, to dry, and back in the course of a mile. With a fulltime system, you just leave it in 4WD and you have the best possible traction at all times, with no concerns about stressing the drivetrain.
With part-time 4WD, you either shift in and out of 4WD as the road changes condition, or you risk stressing your drivetrain.
Most trucks have part-time 4WD, and yes they do get around in the winter. I prefer a full-time system, for all the reasons described above.
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Not one of these 'improvements' (bluetooth, camera, backup sensor, etc) has got anything to do with the trail or off-the-road or winter driving or handling or performance aspects of the 4Runner which has always been a vehicle that can 'take on the weather and off-road' the way it was originally designed for.
I'd take the Torsen and center diff over all that was mentioned, any day of the week.
This just shows me that the 4Runner is now being designed for 'soft use', 'parking lot comfort', designed for metrosexuals and not folks who would really put this vehicle to the test of actual driving in tough weather and off-road conditions.
This what I said! The torsen and center diff are designed for tougher on road conditions.
The word metrosexual must have really gotten to you. :sleepy:
You can debate the semantics all you want but I will stand by what I said.
BTW, I have been ready to step to the plate for a Trail 2010 with CASH. I never read anywhere that you're an actual buyer... looks like pure tire kicking to me
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ToyTech99
Guest
Full time 4wd systems are becoming a dying breed, well, at least TRUE full time 4wd. In the future, I think we're all going to have to learn to love AWD if we want the ability to "set it and forget it" on snowy roads.
Crossover vehicles, here we come:cry2:
I can see it now....Subaru's "wheels that slip to the wheels that grip" tagline will be the mantra for those of use who want to use our 4Runners on snowy roads. LOL
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ToyTech99
Guest
This what I said! The torsen and center diff are designed for tougher on road conditions.
The word metrosexual must have really gotten to you. :sleepy:
You can debate the semantics all you want but I will stand by what I said.
BTW, I have been ready to step to the plate for a Trail 2010 with CASH. I never read anywhere that you're an actual buyer... looks like pure tire kicking to me
Metrosexual doesn't offend me in the least....it's your statement that the 5th gen is a "soft use" or "parking lot comfort" that seems silly to me. The 5th gen Trail is more hardcore offroad than any other 4Runner period. Call it what you want, but you can't really deny that.
And until you actually OWN a 5th gen, then we're on equal ground, both kicking tires. The difference between us is that I have absolutely no desire to own a 5th gen 4Runner and the fact of the matter is that I'll probably never own one. And no, it's not the features or lack thereof, it's the fact that I think it's a ugly looking design (just my opinion) and I'll probably be heading to the Jeep camp with my next SUV purchase. I just love the looks of the 2011 Grand Cherokee (no secret there, I've mentioned it more than once) and I'll have the ability to chose from at least 3 different 4wd systems.
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ToyTech99
Guest
Forget to say---
I'm not sure if you ever noticed or not, but this thread isn't about "improvements" to the 5th gen, it's about "deletions" that were made from gen 4 to gen 5.
So maybe you can start your own thread to talk about how the improvements didn't help offroad or in winter driving.
So what are you doing here on a 4Runner forum? You've got almost five hundred and fifty posts in one month's time and you're picking apart what people are saying, trying to prove points that you make.
I've been buying Toyota pickups and 4Runners since the late 1970's, I'm in the business, know a few of the folks at Toyota and actually like others here on the forum, step to the plate to buy these vehicles.
I've had to tell a good friend, a GM at a local Toyota dealership that the 2010 improvements are superficial, as they add little or NOTHING to performance or actual off-road or on-road handling/use and the deletion of the Torsen and center diff are HUGE in my book.
Don't tell me about a thread on deletions and improvements! I've been on the forum only three years with less than one-half of the posts you've made in one month.
I've made my case to the factory, both in e-mail, on the phone and on this forum. I've got nothing else to add re: the 2010 until they bring back the Torsen, center diff, six speed auto tranny and possible V8 4.6L.
I'm keeping my cash working in the market rather than forking any more over to Toyota at this moment in time.
alaskaman
Senior Member
For my $ I would stick with the 4th gen. The lack of Torsen is huge. With due respect here, being able to lock and unlock the diff on icy/snowy changing roads is a key part of this vehicles performance. Ice and snow change and locking the diff allows me to compensate for those changes as does unlocking. Also, pulling your vehicle out of a ditch can be helped by being able to use 4low in unlocked and locked. Finally, the loss of serious cold weather options (heated outside mirrors, burger tray etc etc) make this an easy choice. For my money if I had to I would go with a 4th or a 2002 with a manual shift and a 4WD. The 2002 is lighter more and you can play with it due to it's profile. The final straw for me was no little mirrors. strike 3.
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alaskaman
Senior Member
Yes, she be.
