jrandom
New member
For example ABS, A-trac, Crawl Control (and who knows what else) are all electronically controlled brake hydraulic actuations.
Go out, pop your hood, look at your master cylinder and the gobs of electronics connected to it.
5th Gen Brake Failure - 17 TRDP
- Thread starter Hadelson
- Start date
For example ABS, A-trac, Crawl Control (and who knows what else) are all electronically controlled brake hydraulic actuations.
Go out, pop your hood, look at your master cylinder and the gobs of electronics connected to it.
I know about all those, but what about just braking in general?For example ABS, A-trac, Crawl Control (and who knows what else) are all electronically controlled brake hydraulic actuations.
Go out, pop your hood, look at your master cylinder and the gobs of electronics connected to it.
With no evidence as to what occurred?
Hadelson
New member
I'm pretty calm under pressure situations-years of training. What evidence would you like to see? Perhaps my soiled drawers? Just trying to add some humor. Rest assured, the brakes did not work at all.
nevada
Senior Member
the evidence is the fact that the pedal dropped to the bottom without fluid loss. that's all you need to know.
jrandom
New member
Can't say for sure, ABS and VSC are constant. Unplug them all, drive around and see what happens.
: That is if if will even let you start and/or go.OP posted multiple times "Friday was told they pulled codes consistent with pumping brakes and some type of failure"
Is that not evidence? Unless you have something solid to the contrary I am not sure where your discussion is going. :noidea:
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Hadelson
New member
Update
Dealer Service Manager called and left message. Friday, he told me they pulled codes showing me pumping the brakes and consistent with situation I described happening. Today's message, no codes, brakes check-out, they want me to drive the car and see if problem occurs again. As said, left me a message and then he did not return my two calls. Once we do speak, should be an interesting conversation.
Dealer Service Manager called and left message. Friday, he told me they pulled codes showing me pumping the brakes and consistent with situation I described happening. Today's message, no codes, brakes check-out, they want me to drive the car and see if problem occurs again. As said, left me a message and then he did not return my two calls. Once we do speak, should be an interesting conversation.
Thank you for the updates. Why am I not surprised by their actions. Sorry you have to deal with that. Good luck.
transistor
New member
That's terrifying. I hope you figure out the cause.
BlackWorksInc
New member
Well not much in the system can go "pop" without causing some very obvious issues (accumulator pod, which is under thousands of psi of pressure, accumulator pump, solenoid pack). The 5th gens also lack the "stroke simulator" that hybrids have that provide false feedback when you lightly apply the brake pedal (because under most light braking conditions you're not actually braking the vehicle is taking control and basically making you think you are), so there's nothing like that that could cause your "pedal to the floor issue".
The thing is that only really leaves the solenoid pack & master cylinder portion; both of which I don't believe have bleed-offs/bypasses. If either of those failed in such a manner to cause a pedal to the floor issue, it should be consistent (i.e. the unit's done and it's always to the floor because it can't maintain pressure). So this makes your issue even more odd because your vehicle is now working perfectly fine.
What were you doing/experiencing before the "pop" was it when you applied the brakes or did the vehicle just go "pop" by itself? How hard were you braking (if you were braking) at the time of the "pop" what were the road conditions, ect?
I'm curious what the recorded data in the ABS module was saying, seems like a very interesting issue given the facts.
Yeah, well 99% of the time it's the floormats. The other 1% it's tin whiskers because people are too stupid to realize that 5% lead solder prevents tin whiskers and they have no concept of being "green" and force unrealistic and unhelpful legislature. But hey, it's not like we mandate leadless solder in planes, trains, and automobiles... oh wait we do as well as every other electronic thing. Oops
The thing is that only really leaves the solenoid pack & master cylinder portion; both of which I don't believe have bleed-offs/bypasses. If either of those failed in such a manner to cause a pedal to the floor issue, it should be consistent (i.e. the unit's done and it's always to the floor because it can't maintain pressure). So this makes your issue even more odd because your vehicle is now working perfectly fine.
What were you doing/experiencing before the "pop" was it when you applied the brakes or did the vehicle just go "pop" by itself? How hard were you braking (if you were braking) at the time of the "pop" what were the road conditions, ect?
I'm curious what the recorded data in the ABS module was saying, seems like a very interesting issue given the facts.
Geesuz that’s scary
Just like the old accelerator/floor mat recall, people were calling bs, come to find out, yep it was a problem. Having no brakes is way more dangerous.
Yeah, well 99% of the time it's the floormats. The other 1% it's tin whiskers because people are too stupid to realize that 5% lead solder prevents tin whiskers and they have no concept of being "green" and force unrealistic and unhelpful legislature. But hey, it's not like we mandate leadless solder in planes, trains, and automobiles... oh wait we do as well as every other electronic thing. Oops
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MaD HuNGaRIaN
New member
The fact that I've been a forum member for less than 1 month and this is the third thread about 5th gen non-deterministic brake failure is very disconcerting.
jrandom
New member
When you babysit a population for everything else there is no way they are going to think about adjusting there floormats. Maybe I'm just an old fart, hah well I am
but in them old days you paid attention to things like your floor mats, how well you engine was firing (or misfiring), whether you had proper air pressure in your tires, ect. ect. So yeah it becomes a problem, sadly.
oh and damn lets coat those wires with organic insulation that rodents love, as it it wasn't bad enough with petroleum based wire insulation.
bloodMoney
New member
I agree. It's especially concerning for me because I picked up our '15 Limited as a DD for the wife and our two month old....
progress4m
Member
...
Yeah, well 99% of the time it's the floormats. The other 1% it's tin whiskers because people are too stupid to realize that 5% lead solder prevents tin whiskers and they have no concept of being "green" and force unrealistic and unhelpful legislature. But hey, it's not like we mandate leadless solder in planes, trains, and automobiles... oh wait we do as well as every other electronic thing. Oops
Good info!
And not to change the original subject of the thread (and I hope OP will update us all on the final outcome), but from my research in the past it was 99% floor mats and 1% of the “ugly” people that were trying to get $ from Toyota -holding the brake and flooring the accelerator at the same time -imitating unintended acceleration… or as NHTSA nicely put it: “the likely cause was "pedal misapplication”.
itsdchz
New member
I had a very similar situation in my '11 FJ. I broke hard to avoid an issue, tried braking again almost immediately after (First reaction was a quick hit, about 2 seconds tops, second was more of an attempt to gradually slow down). Pedal went to floor and could not even feel brakes engage. Dealer checked, and could not replicate, even though I did it in the car with the tech. It happened at least 1/2 dozen times while I had the FJ. Different from your case, but brake failure nonetheless. Keep us posted.
Hadelson
New member
Left Service Managers two messages yesterday. No response as of yet. I will wait until they call me. Sooner or later they will as I have a loaner from them.
Throwback
New member
Here's what I posted in the other thread.
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/205292-time-brakes-didnt-work-7.html
That was a different vehicle - a 2014 TE w/ KDSS - that I traded for my current non-KDSS TE. I have not had the same situation with my current one.
I remember the situation well because I was keeping hard pressure on the brake pedal in an emergency stop situation, and after about two seconds of nose-diving hard braking I lost all brake engagement without any tactile change in the pedal feel. Scary stuff, and I would assume it would be 100% electronic since everything started working again immediately.
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/205292-time-brakes-didnt-work-7.html
That was a different vehicle - a 2014 TE w/ KDSS - that I traded for my current non-KDSS TE. I have not had the same situation with my current one.
I remember the situation well because I was keeping hard pressure on the brake pedal in an emergency stop situation, and after about two seconds of nose-diving hard braking I lost all brake engagement without any tactile change in the pedal feel. Scary stuff, and I would assume it would be 100% electronic since everything started working again immediately.
