5th Gen Brake Failure - 17 TRDP

[Captramrod01]

If brakes fail they do not heal themselves. Cylinder, hose, etc.

Except when they do. Most Toyota truck brake systems are not boosted/pressurized via vacuum like normal vehicles. They have a high pressure pump that's part of the ABS/ATRAC system. When that pump stops working or slows down temporarily your pedal goes to the floor.

Turning the truck off and on can reset this pump which will make the brakes act as normal.

On the 100 series you luckily get a very loud alarm sound before this happens. The newer systems don't seem to give any warning.

This is a huge flaw and I'm surprised there haven't been more reports of accidents because of it.

 

[JeremyB]

Of course they want me to drive the car and develop more information-even though they have codes consistent with brake pumping when you have a system failure.

Exactly what 'codes' do they have? Never heard of brake pumping codes.

 

[nevada]

If brakes fail they do not heal themselves. Cylinder, hose, etc.

that statement is false, evidenced by this very thread...

 

[1engineer]

Except when they do. Most Toyota truck brake systems are not boosted/pressurized via vacuum like normal vehicles. They have a high pressure pump that's part of the ABS/ATRAC system. When that pump stops working or slows down temporarily your pedal goes to the floor.

Turning the truck off and on can reset this pump which will make the brakes act as normal.

On the 100 series you luckily get a very loud alarm sound before this happens. The newer systems don't seem to give any warning.

This is a huge flaw and I'm surprised there haven't been more reports of accidents because of it.

that statement is false, evidenced by this very thread...

Referring to the hardware... hose, rotors, master cylinder, pump, etc. None of those heal themselves. If they break you have no brakes.

 

[Hadelson]

Are you sure about that? This is a semi common issue on the 100 series LC. The brake pump will start to fail with symptoms exactly like what the OP and others have experienced. When this pump fails you have no brakes and no leaks anywhere in the system. As far as I know pretty much every atrac equipped Toyota has a similar brake setup including the 5th gen.

Funny you mentioned ATRAC and asked the dealer if they tested it......of course not. I told them to test this and document before I pick it up.

 

[nevada]

Funny you mentioned ATRAC and asked the dealer if they tested it......of course not. I told them to test this and document before I pick it up.

question, if the brakes fail again, and cause an accident, will the factory(or extended) warranty cover all the damages? or will that be left up to your personal insurance?

if it lands on you, perhaps getting your insurance company involved may help your case?

 

[Hadelson]

Today I get a call from the circus in California. The person calling had no idea dealer told me to come pick up the runner. I've had a day to sit on this and told this person that I was tired of speaking with a different person each time and very concerned that Toyota was sending me on my way with a new warranted vehicle with a brake problem.

I will not touch the vehicle unless they give me a full documented accounting of checks made to system as well as what is the code they pulled from the system.

I am starting to think the dealer knows it coded for a brake issue, the system reset and as long as its working correctly, will not incur the warranty cost to replace they main brake unit.

 

[jhn17843]

Today I get a call from the circus in California. The person calling had no idea dealer told me to come pick up the runner. I've had a day to sit on this and told this person that I was tired of speaking with a different person each time and very concerned that Toyota was sending me on my way with a new warranted vehicle with a brake problem.

I will not touch the vehicle unless they give me a full documented accounting of checks made to system as well as what is the code they pulled from the system.

I am starting to think the dealer knows it coded for a brake issue, the system reset and as long as its working correctly, will not incur the warranty cost to replace they main brake unit.

Warranty repairs are paid by Toyota, not the dealership. They do not loose a penny by performing warranty work.

 

[nevada]

Warranty repairs are paid by Toyota, not the dealership. They do not loose a penny by performing warranty work.

actually, ive heard that based on how warranty work is billed, dealerships usually lose money on warranty repairs.

 

[Ride S40T]

So what's your solution? They kept It, went through It, drove it a hundred miles with no issues. Do you want 200 miles? 1000 miles? When do you know it's right? What if they don't find anything? Lemon laws are different in every state. This is a unique, not a common problem. What do you do?

I don't do anything. They do everything. They need to find out why one of their autos won't stop - or keep it. It's a liability issue at this point. OP has a definite point there. And the issue of accountability. Manufactures are soooo forthright with known issues, eh? This one may be an anomaly but from other posters, sounds like it may not be.

They'd keep it if it were me. Been there done that once in my many years of buying autos. Had a cylinder failure in a brand new auto that caused the engine to go into limp mode and dang near got me and several others squished in the fast lane. This was the second time it had happened.

That car went undiagnosed for about 2 months and I told them to keep it until it was figured out. And yes, the service manager drove it the whole time. Finally someone who had the exact same issue PM'd me on the Brand Name forum.

Sent everything to corporate and was successful. They tapped out. Got "credit" towards a newer/different model and moved on with my day. They comp'd me a free extended warranty on the new auto as I lost a little $$ in the deal. Made it even. But I was not going to put my family in something I knew (key word - knew) had this propensity to croak when full throttle is applied. Too dangerous.

Who would want to put their family in an auto with this type of brake failure? What's is a responsible move by the consumer in this case? I say "leave it until they solve it or they keep it". Better question is "what is the responsible move of the Brand"?

But that's me. I'm not willing to risk my family or the lives of others on the road.

 

[1engineer]

I don't do anything. They do everything. They need to find out why one of their autos won't stop - or keep it. It's a liability issue at this point. OP has a definite point there. And the issue of accountability. Manufactures are soooo forthright with known issues, eh? This one may be an anomaly but from other posters, sounds like it may not be.

They'd keep it if it were me. Been there done that once in my many years of buying autos. Had a cylinder failure in a brand new auto that caused the engine to go into limp mode and dang near got me and several others squished in the fast lane. This was the second time it had happened.

That car went undiagnosed for about 2 months and I told them to keep it until it was figured out. And yes, the service manager drove it the whole time. Finally someone who had the exact same issue PM'd me on the Brand Name forum.

Sent everything to corporate and was successful. They tapped out. Got "credit" towards a newer/different model and moved on with my day. They comp'd me a free extended warranty on the new auto as I lost a little $$ in the deal. Made it even. But I was not going to put my family in something I knew (key word - knew) had this propensity to croak when full throttle is applied. Too dangerous.

Who would want to put their family in an auto with this type of brake failure? What's is a responsible move by the consumer in this case? I say "leave it until they solve it or they keep it". Better question is "what is the responsible move of the Brand"?

But that's me. I'm not willing to risk my family or the lives of others on the road.

That's of course an option. I too would like to know what happened. I think personally I would continue to pursue it through Toyota proper and give them an opportunity to explain and fix.

 

[philsey]

Been following the thread. Hoping to come up with an intelligent recommendation. I put myself in your position OP, and all I can say is that I could not - simply could not - get back in that vehicle as it is.

Imagine your mindset ... driving that thing around! Every.effing.stop light !! Your mind is going "is this the one"?

No. Thank you very much, but no. I do not know what I would do, but I sure know what I would not do. Even worse if I have family. It would be nothing short of irresponsible.

Hire an attorney maybe? Bad situation Brother. Don't let it become worse.

 

[Hadelson]

Received call from Toyota representative in California. Good news is they told me do not pick-up the vehicle from the dealer as they are very concerned and are looking directly into the matter. Sounded sincere at least. Also told me the person at the dealership calling was a service underwriter and not the service manage. Moving forward only take information either from them in California or the Service Manager.

Now two weeks without my primary ride, no resolution and hunting season starts in 10 days.

Wonder how my 2018 Camry loaner does off the road?

 

[-dustin]

Received call from Toyota representative in California. Good news is they told me do not pick-up the vehicle from the dealer as they are very concerned and are looking directly into the matter. Sounded sincere at least. Also told me the person at the dealership calling was a service underwriter and not the service manage. Moving forward only take information either from them in California or the Service Manager.

Now two weeks without my primary ride, no resolution and hunting season starts in 10 days.

Wonder how my 2018 Camry loaner does off the road?

just slap an ARB locker on the Camry and call it a day.

 

[nevada]

Received call from Toyota representative in California. Good news is they told me do not pick-up the vehicle from the dealer as they are very concerned and are looking directly into the matter. Sounded sincere at least. Also told me the person at the dealership calling was a service underwriter and not the service manage. Moving forward only take information either from them in California or the Service Manager.

Now two weeks without my primary ride, no resolution and hunting season starts in 10 days.

Wonder how my 2018 Camry loaner does off the road?

it may be asking a lot, but usually a loaner will be closer to the same type of vehicle you have in for repairs. especially for warranty work.

it might be worth asking for something more appropriate, since your vehicle is incapacitated due to no fault of your own.

 

[2016 4Runner SR5]

Dealers don't have to give you a loaner at all. Some dealers do, some don't. There is generally no choice in what loaner you get. Can't hurt to ask but very unlikely they'll give you something different.

 

[Hadelson]

Todays update. Now, California and dealer aligned and want me to pick-up and drive the car. Basically, there stance is brakes working fine and no codes = no issues. My take is there is a bigger issue in the system with the ECU.


I told them today...have area rep come in and they drive with me......come back from them was rep's schedule really full and don't know when they can be in area.......my come back.........I can wait as I am driving your loaner. Did some digging on the net and there are other 5th generation T4R's with similar issues. Loss of all brake pressure, no codes and then resets.

I am going to open a 2nd NHTSA complaint and ref: 1st complaint with details of no codes and dealer wants me to incur liability and drive the vehicle.

Toyota is becoming a joke with there customer service and vehicle reliability.

 

[matoolie]

Spoke with them late Friday and they are checking with Regional Manager and California. Still waiting for them to call with more information. Initially, told when dropped it off Thursday no codes. Friday was told they pulled codes consistent with pumping brakes and some type of failure

Here is what I've done to cover myself and start audit trail if needed.

1. Filed a notice of the event with the NHTSA.

2. Filed notice with Toyota Complaint services.

This is a 17 TRDP with 13K mostly road miles with limited off - road. Understand all mechanical items can fail.......just expect them to fix it.

What were the codes?

 

[Hadelson]

What were the codes?

Told it was 1420 and then in next breath told me they set this failure to test brake system and ECU. The Service manager also managed to say I was running Bora wheel spacers and this might be a warranty issue... I called BS on him immediately and right there knew they were not going to do anything else with the Runner. Darn shame, this is my 3rd and between my Brother, Dad and I, we've owned 8 T4R's starting with 1st Gen's. None gave us any trouble and now I have this. The real issue here is the reliance on the ECU and codes to determine failure. The techs can't dig into the system mechanically to trouble shoot. It's throw a code and test drive to validate. Simple mechanic skills are becoming a lost art.......Sorry for the rant but as you can imagine, pretty PO's by the entire situation.

I am going to dig in and not pick-up the Runner until area rep arrives and we test drive together. I also filed 2nd detailed with NHTSA

 

[matoolie]

Told it was 1420 and then in next breath told me they set this failure to test brake system and ECU. The Service manager also managed to say I was running Bora wheel spacers and this might be a warranty issue... I called BS on him immediately and right there knew they were not going to do anything else with the Runner. Darn shame, this is my 3rd and between my Brother, Dad and I, we've owned 8 T4R's starting with 1st Gen's. None gave us any trouble and now I have this. The real issue here is the reliance on the ECU and codes to determine failure. The techs can't dig into the system mechanically to trouble shoot. It's throw a code and test drive to validate. Simple mechanic skills are becoming a lost art.......Sorry for the rant but as you can imagine, pretty PO's by the entire situation.

I am going to dig in and not pick-up the Runner until area rep arrives and we test drive together. I also filed 2nd detailed with NHTSA

1420 is engine emissions related.