5th gen may be last 4runner?
- Thread starter 03_4x4Runner
- Start date
I think we're looking at slight improvements/changes versus an outright different engine.
The semantics aside, the fundamental design is extremely similar between the two generations, and Toyota has been relying upon it for far too long.
It is out dated, I would like to see an nice interior update for sure. I have a 17 sr5 and love it just need to have roof rails painted black and I'm pretty much done with a black out look. I plan on keeping it for awhile, pending next gen model I may pick up another.
PeoplecallmeIan
New member
That's a pretty weak sponsorship. There's a skateboarder that was/is? sponsored by Audi and they gave him an A7.
Jetboy
New member
If Mr. T gives it to them, they have to pay taxes and such. Might be better for both of them to loan it for $$ reasons.
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Forget about "being outdated."
I would take a mid '90s Cherokee with the 4.0 HO over any Jeep engine made today.
Same goes for the M20 found in e30 BMWs, the mid '90s cummins, and of course the toyota 22R.
Point is newer and "updated" is not always better.
I don't care enough about MPGs to potentially sacrifice durability.
I would take a mid '90s Cherokee with the 4.0 HO over any Jeep engine made today.
Same goes for the M20 found in e30 BMWs, the mid '90s cummins, and of course the toyota 22R.
Point is newer and "updated" is not always better.
I don't care enough about MPGs to potentially sacrifice durability.
Mvrocky
New member
I tell you what Toyota needs to change about the 4Runner how many of each model they make, I can pull in to a Jeep dealership in my area and they have 10 to 20 jeep wrangler's on the lot, in every trim package and if they don't have what you want they can find it quick.
I can't say that about Toyota dealership, if they have 4runners maybe they have 4 or 6, (The break down is 4 SR5 2 limited . Not TRD off road or TRD pro's.)
I had to drive around for weeks to find a dealership to test drive a TRD off-road and don't get me started on color choices !
I did buy one in the color I wanted.But it took too much work to get one.
My wife said why do you just buy the jeep !
How many people just give up trying to find a 4runner they want ,pull in to a Jeep dealership and buy the wrangler ?
Toyota needs to think about this they're lost sales for not having what the customer wants .
Please forgive me this a subject that makes me mad !
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I can't say that about Toyota dealership, if they have 4runners maybe they have 4 or 6, (The break down is 4 SR5 2 limited . Not TRD off road or TRD pro's.)
I had to drive around for weeks to find a dealership to test drive a TRD off-road and don't get me started on color choices !
I did buy one in the color I wanted.But it took too much work to get one.
My wife said why do you just buy the jeep !
How many people just give up trying to find a 4runner they want ,pull in to a Jeep dealership and buy the wrangler ?
Toyota needs to think about this they're lost sales for not having what the customer wants .
Please forgive me this a subject that makes me mad !
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Considering the sales keep going up, I don't think they have much of an actual issue there.
Mvrocky
New member
Not as fast as the wrangler, I traveling an hour each way back and forth to work account 1 new 4Runner every 8 Wranglers going down the highway..
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Throwback
New member
Since we're wishing on a star...
I'd like to see the front and rear bodywork redone so that front and rear bumpers can be easily installed without cutting up body panels. You know, like every other Toyota 4x4 ever.
Introduce some other type of floor covering that isn't the carpet that holds sand forever. Maybe some type of rubber. Cover the seats with a much sturdier, durable, waterproof synthetic cloth that doesn't stain. Put that on the headliner too.
Then just fix all the interior plastics so that they don't scratch when brushed with a fingernail. That shouldn't be difficult.
That's pretty much my only real gripes with the thing. Give it the ability to throw on a simple, low-profile winch bumper and make the interior not delicate like a tea-room and I'd be tickled. Basically like a FJ60.
I'd like to see the front and rear bodywork redone so that front and rear bumpers can be easily installed without cutting up body panels. You know, like every other Toyota 4x4 ever.
Introduce some other type of floor covering that isn't the carpet that holds sand forever. Maybe some type of rubber. Cover the seats with a much sturdier, durable, waterproof synthetic cloth that doesn't stain. Put that on the headliner too.
Then just fix all the interior plastics so that they don't scratch when brushed with a fingernail. That shouldn't be difficult.
That's pretty much my only real gripes with the thing. Give it the ability to throw on a simple, low-profile winch bumper and make the interior not delicate like a tea-room and I'd be tickled. Basically like a FJ60.
Jetboy
New member
I agree that they are similar in size and overall design. It's semantics for sure, but that's what IMO should keep them all in the GR series but give a new series number for a new update.
The real question is probably this: Is there a normally aspirated V6 that would be sufficient for the 4runner? The current GR engine seems to be universally a very well designed durable engine in all of its iterations. It is light weight and low cost. What I'm not seeing anywhere else in the market is another N/A v6 that's meaningfully better. The newer 3.5L versions are a bit smoother and higher revving. They don't appear to offer significant mileage improvements. And only offer a bit more power by having higher redline. I don't think it's a problem of the 1GR being old. It's a problem of 4 liters is not enough for the weight and size of the 4runner.
IMO it's fine with stock tires and no lift - but just barely enough. Gets good mileage. Cruises pretty nicely at highway speeds. Could use an extra cog or two in the transmission and lower diff gears. Once you modify it much it's not enough.
What other manufacturers have pretty well demonstrated is that the fuel economy penalty for a larger more powerful engine that performs better under load is often small or nothing. A larger engine would be better for many of us. The 4.6L would be a decent choice, though the benefit is small and it's an aging motor as well. The 5.0L atkinson cycle is pretty close to ideal IMO, or a 2.5ish 4cyl turbo would have similar performance.
Consider this for a second - the Australian market dropped the 1GR in the Prado 150 and now only offer the 1GD 2.8L diesel. They only sell about 15,000 annually, so it's a small market to support multiple engines. But if you think your 8 second 0-60 is slow with the 1GR, imagine a 12 second 0-60 with 175hp 4cyl diesel.
The answer to your question is: no. A NA v6 gasser is just barely sufficient for a stock or unloaded 4runner. When any kind of weight is put onto the vehicle, the engine becomes less than adequate. Toyota needs to put a diesel or turbo gasoline into the next 4runner.
The 3.5l v6 is even less suited to truck and 4x4 work than is the 4.0l v6; it's an engine that was originally designed for cars and crossovers. It achieves maximum torque and horsepower at higher RPM's than the 4.0l, which is not what you want for 4x4 applications.
Yes, that 2.8l inline 4 diesel is slower compared to a v6 gasser, but it also delivers far more low-end torque (332lb-ft) and is far more efficient. I would gladly take that inline 4 diesel over the 4.0l v6 gasser if given the choice.
If straight line acceleration is really important to you, don't buy a body on frame SUV at all. Toyota stopped selling the 4.0l gasser in certain overseas markets because most 4x4 owners over there demand diesel engines, not gasoline engines, for their 4x4's and trucks. North America is really the only place in the world where you'll find such an abundance of 4x4 SUV's and trucks with fuel-hogging gasoline engines....it's very much an North American phenomenon.
TacoRunn0517
New member
The Wrangler is the 'bread and butter' for Jeep. The 4Runner isn't for Toyota. Toyota has several other vehicles on their fleet, making it not necessary to get into a volume competition with Jeep. Even the 4Runner and Wrangler somewhat compete, the way they are viewed by their respective manufacturers is different. I mean look at the advertisements for both companies. The Wrangler is the poster vehicle for Jeep. You rarely see the 4Runner advertised. More so the Camry, Corolla, Highlander, RAV4 and Tundra.
Mvrocky
New member
You are 100%right, thats why I think Toyota will be dropping 4runner in the North America market and make a Jeep Wrangler compeiter. That's were the growth in the market is young "off road ready" vehicle . 80% of the new buyers don't want to work on there vehicle, so they buy one they can fit 33's without a lift .
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alico268
New member
Whaaat?! Lifting Vehicles is half the fun.
Here in the DFW area, Wranglers are like a blank canvas for people to express themselves, though many of those people should find a new artform.
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TacoRunn0517
New member
You're not making any sense. The 4Runner doesn't appeal to only hardcore off-roaders. If it did, your claim would make sense. A lot of people own 4Runners for family/daily usage. The 4Runner will never sell as much as the Wrangler. Toyota knows that and can live with that because the vehicles I mentioned are what keep Toyota relevant here in North America. The 4Runner is niche vehicle that isn't going anywhere due to its 'swiss-knife' functionality.
jordanrb81
New member
I think there's a lot of good points on both sides of this argument. I bought my 4Runner because it's body on frame, because it has a locking rear diff, because it has over 9" of ground clearance. but many many people who know I am a total car nerd were like, why a Toyota? why a 4Runner? I don't get it? when I explained to them body on frame and it's amazing off road abilities most of them were like, Really? I had no idea? My sister has a highlander, she thought I bought basically the same car as her... nope it's totally different.
So what's my point. If Toyota wants to increase sales they may want to stop relying on word of mouth. sure 110,000 units is decent numbers but a lot of owners complain about handling fuel economy etc. but if they showed commercials of the 4Runner taking on MOAB and fueled the culture around this vehicle, similar to what FCA continues to do with the wrangler I think more people would understand, and more people would be interested. Many of you may think, well everyone who needs to know, everyone who matters knows. I would bet you there are wrangler owners out there who have no idea the runner can do most of what they can to and is way more livable as an everyday vehicle. There is a market for this type of car in America, and Toyota doesn't really tout the off road prowess. Jeep is a cultural phenomenon tell a Jeep enthusiast their rig is unreliable, they'll just say "it's a jeep thing, you wouldn't understand." yeah my top leaks, yeah this thing breaks all the time, but that's what it is to own a wrangler. the way this image is fueled is marketing. Toyota could, why they don't I am not going to pretend to know. I love my 4Runner, the only regret I have is not getting one like 6 years ago when I paid 50k for my TDI Touareg.
So what's my point. If Toyota wants to increase sales they may want to stop relying on word of mouth. sure 110,000 units is decent numbers but a lot of owners complain about handling fuel economy etc. but if they showed commercials of the 4Runner taking on MOAB and fueled the culture around this vehicle, similar to what FCA continues to do with the wrangler I think more people would understand, and more people would be interested. Many of you may think, well everyone who needs to know, everyone who matters knows. I would bet you there are wrangler owners out there who have no idea the runner can do most of what they can to and is way more livable as an everyday vehicle. There is a market for this type of car in America, and Toyota doesn't really tout the off road prowess. Jeep is a cultural phenomenon tell a Jeep enthusiast their rig is unreliable, they'll just say "it's a jeep thing, you wouldn't understand." yeah my top leaks, yeah this thing breaks all the time, but that's what it is to own a wrangler. the way this image is fueled is marketing. Toyota could, why they don't I am not going to pretend to know. I love my 4Runner, the only regret I have is not getting one like 6 years ago when I paid 50k for my TDI Touareg.
