5th Gen Shocks and Springs Technical Selection

[Intruder]

Wow, looks like it's that time of the month for someone posting in this thread. Do they not sell Midol in the NorthWest?

Okay, so which shocks and springs do I need to fit 285s w/o rubbing?

When I saw this thread I wanted to post exactly this but I was at work and didn't have a chance. Glad someone else did it.

lol, Intruder isn't back east, he's in Calgary, IIRC.

You are correct, but I don't expect an engineer (especially a 'merican one) to know Canadian geography too well.

I run the regular Icon extended travel coilovers. I'm a rock crawler so I don't need remote reservoirs and the extended travel were the same price as their regular coilovers so I went with them. They claim an extra half inch or something of travel but I honestly don't have any experience with the regular ones for comparison. Just ordered the Icon expedition rear coils to carry the weight of my rear bumper. Pretty happy with them overall. They handle well for a daily driver that commutes half an hour each way downtown and do what I need them to do off road. The smaller bumps do jolt a little more, but I either speed up or air down not to feel them, which isn't an option on bad roads in the city but I can live with it.

So [MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION] is the next thread going to be about UCAs or picking which wheels look best with Magnetic Grey?

 

[1engineer]

lol, Intruder isn't back east, he's in Calgary, IIRC.

I'm running Icon's with digressive valving, which I have not really been much of a fan of, because of the very stiff low speed damping, which makes you feel every small ripple and pebble, unless you are aired down. They are great for handling on smooth roads, and at high speed and on big bumps they really shine.

On 2 wheels, I am used to running Ohlins (which I believe are linear valved), but have high and low speed compression, rebound, ride height (shock length), and spring preload adjusters.

Here's some info on valving I found with the magic of google
Shim ReStackor example calculation retuning a shim stack to be three clicks softer

Fixed the geography error lol.
So what type of terrain do you typically drive your 4Runner?

 

[Jeremy556]

Fixed the geography error lol.
So what type of terrain do you typically drive your 4Runner?

Just about all kinds. I live about 12 miles down unmaintained dirt road, on the side of a 8K ft plateau. Those roads go from hard packed washboard in the summer, to a couple feet of snow in the winter, then transition to ice or deep mud, depending on what time of day it is, which is their condition now that it keeps snowing with high temps near 40.

Once I hit the paved road, I'll usually be headed to alpine areas of 10-13K ft, so lots of snow or lots of rocks, depending on season, or heading into high desert areas of sand and slickrock that range from high speed dirt roads and washes, to rock crawling.

 

[skimr]

thanks for posting this. I had not read any of the links before and they really have helped answer a bunch of my questions. just ignore the grumpy ones.

 

[BigredTEX]

First things first; 1E, thank you for posting this and getting this discussion started.

I run an Old Man Emu system with their softest springs. Even with these springs the setup is pretty stiff. It is definitely geared toward over-land expedition travel while carrying everything including the kitchen sink. Three inches of lift is easily achieved and maintained if you add additional weight from bumpers, sliders, skids, winch, etc. I don't plan to add bumpers, but have added sliders and will be adding a hidden winch this spring.

Without all the extra weight it is still too stiff and I'm not really gaining any additional suspension travel or compliance/articulation for the main off-roading I do, which is an extended annual trip to Ouray. I do use the truck for a lot of hunting, so I'm off road and carrying some load, but nowhere near the load carrying capacity of the setup. I will be looking to change out the lift to something with more travel and more compliance - more of a rock crawler setup - in the next 12 months or so.

 

[Canazes9]

On my wife's '13 SR5 we are running Icon front coil overs adjusted to ~2.125" up front. In the back we are running Icon rear shocks with custom coils ordered from Deavers, specified to be 0.5" taller than stock coils w/ 15% increase in spring rate for a net 0.75" in the back. We are running stock UCA's, truck is aligned for +2 caster.

This set-up was picked for two reasons:

1) I believe the Icon set-up to bet a superior set-up for highway use. The digressive shock set-up is much firmer and provides significantly better control. Nose dive under braking and body roll are dramatically reduced. As was previously mentioned, low speed trail running on rough trails without airing down the tires, the Icons are a little stiff. Bigger hits, the ride smooths out. This is a compromise I was willing to make to get the street performance I wanted. Airing down the tires smoothes things out nicely and speeding up helps too! This set-up loves to drive fast over chatter!

2) This is my wife's truck, her first 4wd truck. At first she didn't want to modify it at all. As she got more comfortable driving off road, she decided she did want a suspension upgrade but she really did not want it too tall.

This set-up works well for the varied uses we have (yes, there are a lot of remote beach driving trips!). Keeping the lift lower allows a good alignment with stock UCA's - the truck doesn't wander or drift at speed on the highway. Sticking with the stock UCA's saved a little money.

This truck is destined to be my daughters truck in about another 18 months. My wife has already decided she wants to replace it with a TE. She wants the TE equipped with an Icon Stage2 lift (though I'm tempted to try the Camburg/MOOG ball joint UCA's from Wheelers). Probably go with MT rear links, Budbuilt skids, BAMF sliders and a Budbuilt hidden winch.

She is pushing me on the winch right now. Every time we go off road she says "I wish I had a winch - just in case..." There will probably be a winch on her 4Runner before we go to the Lonestar Jamboree in May...

David

 

[G8RB8_12SR5]

I enjoyed reading this thread and the articles attached. I haven't ever had an SUV much less offroaded before I had my 4R or found this forum, so the education of things I've read, and which ones are facts or useless opinions (and further research beyond the links share on the forum), has helped me significantly understand how the systems work and what I'm willing to do as far as modifications to the systems to meet my purposes. Those purposes and intentions of use are things I'm still figuring out as I go, so I've started with simple stuff and will gradually do things like new tires, wheels, and possibly suspension but that's still TBD. Thanks for sharing this info and the one that's helped me understand things the most, the "P vs. LT tires" thread that JB wrote a while ago.

 

[mfregeau20]

Bump

What you picked and why? Only saw a couple answers and then silence.

 

[Jeremy556]

Bump

What you picked and why? Only saw a couple answers and then silence.

Bump again.

I got Icon, because that is popular on this forum, and I didn't look into it much. If done over, I would probably go with King. In the end, it makes little difference, all of the higher end shocks are pretty much the same, other than valving, and some material choices here and there. I'll pull apart my shocks or have them serviced in the near future, and change out the shim stack to a more linear or progressive valving.

Very interesting, in depth article in Overland Journal, that I got yesterday. A shock comparison of 2" shocks for a wrangler - OME, Fox, Icon, Rancho, Bilstein. Results were very surprising.

 

[mfregeau20]

Bump again.

I got Icon, because that is popular on this forum, and I didn't look into it much. If done over, I would probably go with King. In the end, it makes little difference, all of the higher end shocks are pretty much the same, other than valving, and some material choices here and there. I'll pull apart my shocks or have them serviced in the near future, and change out the shim stack to a more linear or progressive valving.

Very interesting, in depth article in Overland Journal, that I got yesterday. A shock comparison of 2" shocks for a wrangler - OME, Fox, Icon, Rancho, Bilstein. Results were very surprising.

Seems like Icon is a little easier to get you hands on, at least on the sites I have check (mostly Metal Tech, Toytec, and Demello). The Fox does interest me and seems to be fairly equal in Price. Not sure where they are in terms of long term service and being in CA. Icon is a quick shipment down south of the state. I am leaning towards them Lilly due to the popularity of them. I get the logic though of the going to a more progressive shock coming from motorcycles same as you and having uber nice Ohlins

I think the only spot I found Fox was at All Pro and Kings, well I have no idea.

Thanks for the incite though much appreciated, not quite ready to pull the trigger and it is good to hear perspective and why people pick what they have. I have PM'd a few members already and got great advice on things too

 

[mfregeau20]

Fox Customer Service

Ok so just called Fox today down in El Cajon Ca talked to a guy about the shocks and coil overs. Very Knowledgeable about his product I continued to inquire about the ride quality on a T4R and he stated that he just swapped them out on a buddy of his that had what sounds like the xreas system. he Claims the ride quality is night and day better. When asked what he used for the rear spring since they do not offer one he commenced to tell me that T4R have leaf packs in the back I just need to get Blocks.

Uh dude you sure about that, he says yes he did not see a regular coil spring int he rear.

REALLY!

I went from interested to skeptical

 

[jbstrd]

Ok so just called Fox today down in El Cajon Ca talked to a guy about the shocks and coil overs. Very Knowledgeable about his product I continued to inquire about the ride quality on a T4R and he stated that he just swapped them out on a buddy of his that had what sounds like the xreas system. he Claims the ride quality is night and day better. When asked what he used for the rear spring since they do not offer one he commenced to tell me that T4R have leaf packs in the back I just need to get Blocks.

Uh dude you sure about that, he says yes he did not see a regular coil spring int he rear.

REALLY!

I went from interested to skeptical

Maybe he was confused with an Xterra.:der:

 

[joneseyyy]

OK, I'll play. I typically am offroading in the Mid-Atlantic on anything from basic fire roads and mild trails to stuff requiring the locker, armor, etc. mostly narrow trails with technical sections and tree around. However I also frequently get to New England as well as out west 1-2x a year to wheel.

My style is pretty aggressive and I like a responsive, controlled ride. I decided to go with Icon stuff based mostly on the recommendation of the forums, to be honest. I ran a regular setup for about 18 months (standard remote resi coilovers in front, monotubes in back). The ride is as others described re: digressive valving - stiffer on the small stuff while compliant on the larger hits.

This setup was great, until I added more weight and started driving a bit more aggressively offroad. With a bumper, winch, dual battery, and armor, the 650lb springs were not holding the weight and the digressive valving was blowing through travel - the front end was bottoming when it shouldn't. Additionally, I managed to overheat and blow seals on the monotubes on a blistering white rim run (we're talking a 50 mile stretch at a good pace offroad).

I decided to upgrade - I put remote resi double bypasses in the rear - which by virtue of having a bypass have a built-in bump zone. I had my front coilovers rebuilt with heavier 700lb springs to better support the extra weight and had the shocks revalved for those springs. I also added secondary bypasses up front to add the bump zone and to be able to fine-tune the compression and rebound in the ride zone.

This setup really works for me. Relative to my friends with lesser setups I am able to cover the same terrain much faster - the truck just eats it up without transferring nearly as much of the hits into the cabin. I also am really pleased with the on-road handling as the truck is still a daily driver.

There are some very polarizing opinions in this thread on Icon equipment. Perhaps they aren't a great deal relative to some other options, or perhaps other people are trying to win some invisible internet tough guy contest, I don't know. I know what I've spent, and I know I'm super pleased with the setup and would recommend it if you want a setup that is great on-road and pretty killer offroad.

 

[HOJeepster]

OK, I'll play. I typically am offroading in the Mid-Atlantic on anything from basic fire roads and mild trails to stuff requiring the locker, armor, etc. mostly narrow trails with technical sections and tree around. However I also frequently get to New England as well as out west 1-2x a year to wheel.

My style is pretty aggressive and I like a responsive, controlled ride. I decided to go with Icon stuff based mostly on the recommendation of the forums, to be honest. I ran a regular setup for about 18 months (standard remote resi coilovers in front, monotubes in back). The ride is as others described re: digressive valving - stiffer on the small stuff while compliant on the larger hits.

This setup was great, until I added more weight and started driving a bit more aggressively offroad. With a bumper, winch, dual battery, and armor, the 650lb springs were not holding the weight and the digressive valving was blowing through travel - the front end was bottoming when it shouldn't. Additionally, I managed to overheat and blow seals on the monotubes on a blistering white rim run (we're talking a 50 mile stretch at a good pace offroad).

I decided to upgrade - I put remote resi double bypasses in the rear - which by virtue of having a bypass have a built-in bump zone. I had my front coilovers rebuilt with heavier 700lb springs to better support the extra weight and had the shocks revalved for those springs. I also added secondary bypasses up front to add the bump zone and to be able to fine-tune the compression and rebound in the ride zone.

This setup really works for me. Relative to my friends with lesser setups I am able to cover the same terrain much faster - the truck just eats it up without transferring nearly as much of the hits into the cabin. I also am really pleased with the on-road handling as the truck is still a daily driver.

There are some very polarizing opinions in this thread on Icon equipment. Perhaps they aren't a great deal relative to some other options, or perhaps other people are trying to win some invisible internet tough guy contest, I don't know. I know what I've spent, and I know I'm super pleased with the setup and would recommend it if you want a setup that is great on-road and pretty killer offroad.

I would classify this as 'overkill' the thread is mentioning. Badass, sure, but not everone is going to need to run secondary shocks and drop 6k on suspension.

Overall, I don't think there is a right and wrong answer. I've been reading this site for 4 years, and the conclusion is everyone has their own opinions. I read Radflo's were the dopest coilover on the block, only to buy them, and not be remotely satisfied.

 

[1engineer]

I would classify this as 'overkill' the thread is mentioning. Badass, sure, but not everone is going to need to run secondary shocks and drop 6k on suspension.

Overall, I don't think there is a right and wrong answer. I've been reading this site for 4 years, and the conclusion is everyone has their own opinions. I read Radflo's were the dopest coilover on the block, only to buy them, and not be remotely satisfied.

I agree with your second statement but I submit [MENTION=51030]joneseyyy[/MENTION] suspension may not be robust enough for the way he drives lol. Overkill? With him? I think not.

 

[joneseyyy]

To be honest, my only regret is not going Total Chaos Lowers and Shock Hoops for more strength and ease of rebuild. That and not more seriously vetting going 2" long travel.

 

[Dewfang]

Tagged

 

[1engineer]

Bump for the recent suspension pm's I have received. Please read the links in the first post lol.

 

[Bourbonator]

I'm going to bump this old threat because I continue to use it to refresh my memory. There is some useful info in here, and maybe others would like to add to it.

Also, I don't see Wheeler's Offroad mentioned often enough. They offer some things that MetalTech and Demello don't.

 

[Jhalko]

Given some recent discussions thought it would be good to give this a bump...
[MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION] since you are the mod, maybe you should add this to your sticky for new members.