5th gen used pricing strangeness

[LA2SD]

I just went through pricing 4runners (just bought mine, but searched for a good month). What I noticed is that, although the resell value is strong, many sellers are overly optimistic and have too high a price. Why too high? Check the days listed, so many of them were like 80+ days..........that's too long if you are serious about selling a car. Ones that came in at good value, sold rather quickly.

So many of them are mismarked, even by Toyota dealers! People call a limited a trail, or some other trim level mix up. I saw many that said Nav that actually didn't have nav, just a premium radio. 2010-2013 I was seeing them actually sell for $20-26.5k, and 2014+ 27k on up. 2014/2015 Trail seemed to be in the 26-29k and Trail Premium about 32k on up.

^Quoting an older post, but this is exactly what I've encountered since beginning my search. I've been looking at 2010 through 2013 trails and even private sellers are marking them up an extra $3 - $5K over KBB and NADA. It's crazy.

It used to be that people sold their rides privately, rather than to a dealer, so that they wouldn't lose money. Dealers were known for low balling, and not really paying "blue book" value for a car; and buyers would look to private sellers because a good deal was almost always guaranteed.

It seems that now, part of the problem, is that private sellers see dealer prices on the net, and figure they should sell their ride for the same dealer price, forgetting that dealers factor in advertising costs and reconditioning, and just overcharging in general. There's almost no point in buying from a private party unless the seller is willing to negotiate such a reasonable offer that it wouldn't make sense to buy new. Plus, taxes and fees still have to be paid on a private party purchase.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

It seems that now, part of the problem, is that private sellers see dealer prices on the net, and figure they should sell their ride for the same dealer price, forgetting that dealers factor in advertising costs and reconditioning, and just overcharging in general. There's almost no point in buying from a private party unless the seller is willing to negotiate such a reasonable offer that it wouldn't make sense to buy new. Plus, taxes and fees still have to be paid on a private party purchase.

When I sold my pristine low mileage 2015 TE (and I didn't sell it because I didn't like it) I put it up on the KBB dealer acquisition forum.

I had like 3 offers within a day. All were fair and quite close to what I paid for it. A Ford dealer near me (ironically) had the highest offer.

Took it in, they looked at it, no haggle, they wrote me a check and I signed over the title. Entire deal was done in < 2 hours. They even gave me a ride home from the dealership.

That's why people with nice vehicles they want to sell don't screw with private sales much anymore. Don't have to deal with lookie lou's or unqualified buyers. Don't have to waste time. Just in and out.

I've sold vehicles before on the private market and to be honest, it's a pain in the ass. You have to deal with people who don't have the money so they low ball. Phone calls and setting up visits to see the vehicle.

At a dealership one of two things happen: 1) It's a cash buyer or 2) They pull a credit bureau before they even bother showing any vehicles. For a private seller it's tough to pull a credit bureau (read next to impossible) and there are so many people out there with questionable credit/backgrounds IMO it's a waste of time to sell private.

 

[LA2SD]

That's why people with nice vehicles they want to sell don't screw with private sales much anymore. Don't have to deal with lookie lou's or unqualified buyers. Don't have to waste time. Just in and out.

I've sold vehicles before on the private market and to be honest, it's a pain in the ass. You have to deal with people who don't have the money so they low ball. Phone calls and setting up visits to see the vehicle.

At a dealership one of two things happen: 1) It's a cash buyer or 2) They pull a credit bureau before they even bother showing any vehicles. For a private seller it's tough to pull a credit bureau (read next to impossible) and there are so many people out there with questionable credit/backgrounds IMO it's a waste of time to sell private.

^ Yes, those are some valid points. Which probably helps to explain the lack of quality rides I've come across on the private market. At least when it comes to early 5th gens that is. I'm guessing people are just like screw it.

I found an early 5th gen trail listed locally for a great price, but the seller decided to keep it in the family. Hope to find another deal like that. Just have to keep looking. Thanks to this forum though, I at least have a better idea of what outrageous vs reasonable pricing should look like. :thumb:

 

[derryck]

^ Yes, those are some valid points. Which probably helps to explain the lack of quality rides I've come across on the private market. At least when it comes to early 5th gens that is. I'm guessing people are just like screw it.

I found an early 5th gen trail listed locally for a great price, but the seller decided to keep it in the family. Hope to find another deal like that. Just have to keep looking. Thanks to this forum though, I at least have a better idea of what outrageous vs reasonable pricing should look like. :thumb:

I have a used 2016 LE with about 6,500 miles on it and it is immaculate. It has grey TRD Pro wheels, a Warn ZEON 10 -S winch with hidden mount, ARB skid plates, diff breather mod, 6112/5100 suspension and Gobi ladder. I will happily sell it for $74K:cheers:

 

[sr5owner?]

I'm thinking the FJ beats both Tacoma and 4runner in resale value.
Looking for one and they seem to be selling for more used than they were new. Now I've never heard of a vehicle that appreciates.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

 

[Blitzkrieg]

I'm thinking the FJ beats both Tacoma and 4runner in resale value.
Looking for one and they seem to be selling for more used than they were new. Now I've never heard of a vehicle that appreciates.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

Well... Supply and demand.

Look at the increase on value of the Ford GT. MSRP was $139,995. Today you won't even smell one for north of $230,000. If you are really lucky.

10 buyers, 5 cars. The way it works.

 

[MossJenks]

Buying a super low mileage Toyota or Honda is for fools only. You save next to nothing if anything at all. I've seen them with 20k miles priced higher than new. I buy all of mine with a lot of miles. My 1st gen only had 75k on it but it had been crashed and the roof was gone and it had been left out in the snow all winter without even a tarp over it so it was completely trashed. I got it practically for free. But I bought by 2nd and 3rd with about 145k on the clock and my 5th gen with 105k miles - and it was still $20k (wife talked me into a "low mileage" one - lol).

 

[MossJenks]

At a dealership one of two things happen: 1) It's a cash buyer or 2) They pull a credit bureau before they even bother showing any vehicles. For a private seller it's tough to pull a credit bureau (read next to impossible) and there are so many people out there with questionable credit/backgrounds IMO it's a waste of time to sell private.

Depends on the car. I'm working on selling my old Audi. The dealership would only give me $1k for it (which is right around blue book) but they're super popular with the "tuner" crowd so I reckon I'll find some dumb kid to give me 3 or 4 thousand for it. Cash only - they can deal with the bank if that's what they're looking to do.

 

[LA2SD]

I have a used 2016 LE with about 6,500 miles on it and it is immaculate. It has grey TRD Pro wheels, a Warn ZEON 10 -S winch with hidden mount, ARB skid plates, diff breather mod, 6112/5100 suspension and Gobi ladder. I will happily sell it for $74K:cheers:

Lol uhhh, thanks, but no thanks

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Depends on the car. I'm working on selling my old Audi. The dealership would only give me $1k for it (which is right around blue book) but they're super popular with the "tuner" crowd so I reckon I'll find some dumb kid to give me 3 or 4 thousand for it. Cash only - they can deal with the bank if that's what they're looking to do.

Just don't take advantage of a good kid that wants it if you know what it's worth.

Remember, you and I were both "dumb kids" once too.

 

[MossJenks]

Just don't take advantage of a good kid that wants it if you know what it's worth.

Remember, you and I were both "dumb kids" once too.

No, they know full well what the "book" value is but are willing to pay way more. The guy over at Advance Auto Parts (who's no kid - early 40s would be my guess) offered me $2500 right after I told him what the dealership offered me and made jokes about how it's practically worthless. His wife vetoed it, unfortunately!

It's a manual transmission so pretty rare is the thing. I have no idea why the book doesn't reflect this fact. OTOH, the frickin thing was bleeding me dry! But the motors will take a lot of turbo boost and make big power and the main mechanical units are bullet proof. It's everything else especially the electronics that's a nightmare. That's why I went back to a Toyota!

 

[Blitzkrieg]

No, they know full well what the "book" value is but are willing to pay way more. The guy over at Advance Auto Parts (who's no kid - early 40s would be my guess) offered me $2500 right after I told him what the dealership offered me. His wife vetoed it, unfortunately!

It's a manual transmission so pretty rare is the thing. I have no idea why the book doesn't reflect this fact. OTOH, the frickin thing was bleeding me dry! But the motors will take a lot of turbo boost and make big power and the main mechanical units are bullet proof. It's everything else especially the electronics that's a nightmare.

Yeah, that is a big shortcoming with valuing sites like KBB. They don't take into account a lot of the one offs that are not the run of the mill. My kid had a VW R32 and the dealer bought it at auction and had it listed and priced as a Golf.

I got a steal on that one. They had no clue what it really was.

Edit: I was thinking R32. Correction - It was a GTI 337 which was a pretty rare model.

http://www.caranddriver.com/news/volkswagen-gti-337-edition-auto-shows

 

[slippers]

When I sold my pristine low mileage 2015 TE (and I didn't sell it because I didn't like it) I put it up on the KBB dealer acquisition forum.

I had like 3 offers within a day. All were fair and quite close to what I paid for it. A Ford dealer near me (ironically) had the highest offer.

Took it in, they looked at it, no haggle, they wrote me a check and I signed over the title. Entire deal was done in < 2 hours. They even gave me a ride home from the dealership.

That's why people with nice vehicles they want to sell don't screw with private sales much anymore. Don't have to deal with lookie lou's or unqualified buyers. Don't have to waste time. Just in and out.

I've sold vehicles before on the private market and to be honest, it's a pain in the ass. You have to deal with people who don't have the money so they low ball. Phone calls and setting up visits to see the vehicle.

At a dealership one of two things happen: 1) It's a cash buyer or 2) They pull a credit bureau before they even bother showing any vehicles. For a private seller it's tough to pull a credit bureau (read next to impossible) and there are so many people out there with questionable credit/backgrounds IMO it's a waste of time to sell private.

Wanted to sell a Porsche Carrera S, called 3 dealers, 3rd one came next business day with a cashier's check.

No tire kickers, pen pals, no sob stories, no games.

 

[TerraCrawler]

When I sold my pristine low mileage 2015 TE (and I didn't sell it because I didn't like it) I put it up on the KBB dealer acquisition forum.

I had like 3 offers within a day. All were fair and quite close to what I paid for it. A Ford dealer near me (ironically) had the highest offer.

Took it in, they looked at it, no haggle, they wrote me a check and I signed over the title. Entire deal was done in < 2 hours. They even gave me a ride home from the dealership.

That's why people with nice vehicles they want to sell don't screw with private sales much anymore. Don't have to deal with lookie lou's or unqualified buyers. Don't have to waste time. Just in and out.

I've sold vehicles before on the private market and to be honest, it's a pain in the ass. You have to deal with people who don't have the money so they low ball. Phone calls and setting up visits to see the vehicle.

At a dealership one of two things happen: 1) It's a cash buyer or 2) They pull a credit bureau before they even bother showing any vehicles. For a private seller it's tough to pull a credit bureau (read next to impossible) and there are so many people out there with questionable credit/backgrounds IMO it's a waste of time to sell private.

This is all very vehicle dependent though as far as getting a good deal from a dealer. Last year I bought the highest trim level VW GTI, The Autobahn edition.....$35k is what I paid with my options and I shopped all over to get the best price. About 12 months later, I goto sell it and can't get $25,500 from private party or dealers. I have now dropped to $23k. That's 1/3 value lost in 12 months. Car is immaculate......dealers call me and offer me $19k.....that's a joke, I am going to continue to try to sell private, just to reduce the massive loss.

 

[MossJenks]

Kinda goes with the territory on VW/Audi products. My Audi was purchased for around $40k new. 6 years and 90k miles later the guy got $8k on trade in and I bought it for $10k. 5 years and another 90k miles and book value is around $1200. My 2011 4Runner was, what, $35k new? I bought it 6 years and 105k miles later for $20k. When it has 300k miles on it it'll probably still be worth $3 or $4k. Says a lot about the relative durability and maintenance costs between the two brands.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

This is all very vehicle dependent though as far as getting a good deal from a dealer. Last year I bought the highest trim level VW GTI, The Autobahn edition.....$35k is what I paid with my options and I shopped all over to get the best price. About 12 months later, I goto sell it and can't get $25,500 from private party or dealers. I have now dropped to $23k. That's 1/3 value lost in 12 months. Car is immaculate......dealers call me and offer me $19k.....that's a joke, I am going to continue to try to sell private, just to reduce the massive loss.

Well, you have to look at the fact that the EPA's *****-slap on VW for the emissions debacle has definitely hurt VW values (even though the affected vehicles were all TDI as far as I have read).

When you have this (zoom in to get a perspective):

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.5993164,-104.6786226,624m/data=!3m1!1e3

And they are all VW's and there are a shitload of them sitting there, it's gonna have a direct affect on the resale value of ALL VW's, at least for a while.

But here is the rub (and my opinion being a died in the wool Dub lover but also a reasonably intelligent soul):

The government bent VW over on this one. No Vaseline.

They basically made VW offer customers to buy back the vehicles affected at book value AND settle in addition depending on make/model/mileage for $5500 - $9500 (est) per vehicle.

So. If you have a clapped out 2011 Jetta TDI that you haven't cleaned since new AND you could get book "good" value AND an additional $5k-9K.......

Well.. Look at the image I posted above and see what happened.

Another interesting fact on how this shitstorm rolled in. The Bosch ECM in the TDI affected vehicles had two modes. 1) Dyno (for emissions testing) and 2) Normal (for normal driving).

While selective mode is not unusual today (hell, my new Mercedes has it - Sport selective and Economy (or regular mode) where VW ****ed up was they had Bosch tune the ECM to pick the best mode selectively and transparently while the vehicle was being driven.

Ooops.

So. The U.S. Government and EPa and especially CARB are making VW their whipping boy here for other manufacturers and saying "Don't even for a minute think of doing shit like this. If you do, it's going to hurt you, and bad."

;-)