Darren
Member
I purchased a 2017 Off-Road Premium mid-March last year to replace my 2002 (still have it, but will be posted in the near term), and for months prior to the new purchase, I was reading up on various things. One topic that I saw of interest was with folks talking about the weak AC in 5th generations. It's not specific to AC, but heat as well due to the fan. I have definitely noticed this issue as well during this winter (undoubtedly last summer with the AC--can't recall), and the difference is rather substantial in relation to my 2002. I finally took some measurements to quantify it, which is prompting this post. There are a few threads I again found on the topic, but I don't think I saw the one I intended to append to.
Anyway, for both 4Runners, the measurements are in recirculation mode with the left, and two central dash vents open, and the passenger door and rear passenger vents being closed off. The 2017 values are on the left and the 2002 are in parenthesis. I recorded these with my meter in line with the steering wheel from the driver's central dash vent.
Dash vent mode
2.2 MPH
3.5
4.8
6.1 (6.1)
7.5 (9.3)
8.9 (11.8)
11.1 (15.4)
Dash and floor mode
1.4
2.0
3.4
4.2 (4.3)
5.2 (6.4)
6.6 (8.3)
7.4 (10.8)
So, basically the 3rd gen outputs the same volume of air through the dash vents with the floor vents open as the 5th gen with just the dash vents, so in my view, people are right to complain. I can also say there is a lot more air flow through the floor vents on the 2002 in the dash and floor mode, and the 2017 is extremely weak. I also recorded the temperature from a few inches from the vent (both fully warm engines), where I got 159.0 degrees from the 2017 and 149.0 from the 2002, but the fan speed is the game-changer. Obviously, the 5th generation fan still gets the job done, but just a lot more slowly when you want to get warmed up or cooled down.
I wasn't originally planning to post the following, but since I didn't use another thread, I guess I'll put up the rest of my pros and cons between the two. Listed in order of my priority:
5th generation pros
- Seating comfort. I always really liked my 2002, but the 2017 is far more comfortable in comparison. A wider, generally more comfortable seat, more driver room in general, and the seat sits down further in the cab, though the door's window line might aid in this feeling. The 3rd gen seat sits higher up, like on a pedestal of sorts, feeling a little more exposed and less safe in comparison.
- ~80 miles better gas range
- Interior refinement (nicer dash cluster and navigation display)
- Interior size
- Engine power (off-road ability has always been my primary purpose for both 4Runners, so while the extra power is certainly nice, I'm not one who cares that much about it in general)
- Interior ice blue lighting (2014+). This might actually be tied for #1. I love the blue!
5th generation cons
- Exterior size on trails. This was the biggest issue I knew I was going to have before buying. It's all scratched to mess now. The 5" extra width is night and day on tight roads (whether narrow shelves, or just tight brush), parking between vehicles, and in the garage.
- Turn radius. What a mess. This one was unexpected for me. The dang thing turns like a barge. Oddly, the 5th is spec'd at 37.4' and the 3rd at 38.1'. I don't know what the actual numbers are, but the difference is as substantial as the HVAC fan and overall size difference. It's got to be at least a 3' difference (not joking). 3rd gens are crazy tight and are a dream on tight switchbacks.
- Black interior and material. The most pathetic and egregious setup for a vehicle that sees dirt roads. The light gray cloth in my 2002 was perfect. I guess black is one thing, but the materials seem to emphasize dust that much more.
- HVAC fan, as mentioned
- No center diff. Running in AWD on the likes of slickrock is much more preferred. I know the system can take the binding, but it never feels good. A most useful feature. Most unfortunate Toyota continues to limit this to the Limiteds. I realize it was limited on the 3rd generation run as well, and not an option prior to the 2000 Limiteds.
- Power seats. This is a big one for me since I sleep inside, which means waiting on the slow seat to move, especially when it's cold outside, allowing some warm air to escape. Also potential to wear out in time.
- Steering wheel adjustment. I'm not even sure why they even put this in, though I know Toyota uses the same adjustment in other models. The 3rd gen, while not having telescopic adjustment, offers a much nicer and easier lever to operate, while providing a much greater range of up and down movement.
Overall, the 5th is much better on pavement (I know everyone would agree), but much worse on the trails due to the size and turn radius. I knew this was going to be the case before buying, but others who will end up doing the same move might not consider some of these other points.
Anyway, for both 4Runners, the measurements are in recirculation mode with the left, and two central dash vents open, and the passenger door and rear passenger vents being closed off. The 2017 values are on the left and the 2002 are in parenthesis. I recorded these with my meter in line with the steering wheel from the driver's central dash vent.
Dash vent mode
2.2 MPH
3.5
4.8
6.1 (6.1)
7.5 (9.3)
8.9 (11.8)
11.1 (15.4)
Dash and floor mode
1.4
2.0
3.4
4.2 (4.3)
5.2 (6.4)
6.6 (8.3)
7.4 (10.8)
So, basically the 3rd gen outputs the same volume of air through the dash vents with the floor vents open as the 5th gen with just the dash vents, so in my view, people are right to complain. I can also say there is a lot more air flow through the floor vents on the 2002 in the dash and floor mode, and the 2017 is extremely weak. I also recorded the temperature from a few inches from the vent (both fully warm engines), where I got 159.0 degrees from the 2017 and 149.0 from the 2002, but the fan speed is the game-changer. Obviously, the 5th generation fan still gets the job done, but just a lot more slowly when you want to get warmed up or cooled down.
I wasn't originally planning to post the following, but since I didn't use another thread, I guess I'll put up the rest of my pros and cons between the two. Listed in order of my priority:
5th generation pros
- Seating comfort. I always really liked my 2002, but the 2017 is far more comfortable in comparison. A wider, generally more comfortable seat, more driver room in general, and the seat sits down further in the cab, though the door's window line might aid in this feeling. The 3rd gen seat sits higher up, like on a pedestal of sorts, feeling a little more exposed and less safe in comparison.
- ~80 miles better gas range
- Interior refinement (nicer dash cluster and navigation display)
- Interior size
- Engine power (off-road ability has always been my primary purpose for both 4Runners, so while the extra power is certainly nice, I'm not one who cares that much about it in general)
- Interior ice blue lighting (2014+). This might actually be tied for #1. I love the blue!
5th generation cons
- Exterior size on trails. This was the biggest issue I knew I was going to have before buying. It's all scratched to mess now. The 5" extra width is night and day on tight roads (whether narrow shelves, or just tight brush), parking between vehicles, and in the garage.
- Turn radius. What a mess. This one was unexpected for me. The dang thing turns like a barge. Oddly, the 5th is spec'd at 37.4' and the 3rd at 38.1'. I don't know what the actual numbers are, but the difference is as substantial as the HVAC fan and overall size difference. It's got to be at least a 3' difference (not joking). 3rd gens are crazy tight and are a dream on tight switchbacks.
- Black interior and material. The most pathetic and egregious setup for a vehicle that sees dirt roads. The light gray cloth in my 2002 was perfect. I guess black is one thing, but the materials seem to emphasize dust that much more.
- HVAC fan, as mentioned
- No center diff. Running in AWD on the likes of slickrock is much more preferred. I know the system can take the binding, but it never feels good. A most useful feature. Most unfortunate Toyota continues to limit this to the Limiteds. I realize it was limited on the 3rd generation run as well, and not an option prior to the 2000 Limiteds.
- Power seats. This is a big one for me since I sleep inside, which means waiting on the slow seat to move, especially when it's cold outside, allowing some warm air to escape. Also potential to wear out in time.
- Steering wheel adjustment. I'm not even sure why they even put this in, though I know Toyota uses the same adjustment in other models. The 3rd gen, while not having telescopic adjustment, offers a much nicer and easier lever to operate, while providing a much greater range of up and down movement.
Overall, the 5th is much better on pavement (I know everyone would agree), but much worse on the trails due to the size and turn radius. I knew this was going to be the case before buying, but others who will end up doing the same move might not consider some of these other points.
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