6th gen coming 2022

RichinRidgewood said:
Toyota owns a big chunk of Mazda and they have a big investment in Tesla. I worked on electrical systems that went into Toyotas and Teslas. Same part different shipping address.
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I was surprised we didn't see Toyota end up buying Tesla when stock was down. Toyota and Panasonic have been strategic partners forever. Not in the current market though. Even Tesla thinks Tesla is overpriced.

I think the big difference with Subaru is management chains. Toyota is taking a lot more active role in driving Subaru's product mix. I'd bet ten years out the shared part content between a Forester and a Rav4 is something more like 90%. I'm not sure Mazda can survive as a stand alone either. The EV transformation is going to shake up the industry top to bottom. When revolution happens - it happens fast.

Self driving is another game changer - but I don't know who has the lead there. The basic math tells met the current tesla hardware is not capable of safe full self driving (the cameras lack the resolving power to identify object size, shape, or relative velocity at a far enough distance). Maybe Waymo or GM? Even someone like DJI might come out of nowhere and upend the industry. You can't predict the black swan...
 
NativeTexan said:
...reliability out in the middle of nowhere...
What we all wish for is the 70 series here in NA.
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Just for clarity, "the middle of nowhere" doesn't really exist anymore. A vehicle can be extracted from 92% of the world now, yes some regions at great expense but extracted none-the-less. So I think that reliability care is only a sell factor and not as much an actual engineering choice that is was in the past. For f'ks sake a small rodent can almost completey disable a modern 4runner in 30 seconds.

...and hell yeah 70 series for the win. :thumb:
 
jrandom said:
Just for clarity, "the middle of nowhere" doesn't really exist anymore. A vehicle can be extracted from 92% of the world now, yes some regions at great expense but extracted none-the-less. So I think that reliability care is only a sell factor and not as much an actual engineering choice that is was in the past. For f'ks sake a small rodent can almost completey disable a modern 4runner in 30 seconds.

...and hell yeah 70 series for the win. :thumb:
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Ease of extraction isn't my exact worry. Getting stranded 20 miles and 10,000 vertical feet from the nearest human contact or cell service with the sun going down is not something I want or need to experience even if its on a forest service road in good enough shape to handle a full flatbed tow truck.
 
Jetboy said:
I was surprised we didn't see Toyota end up buying Tesla when stock was down. Toyota and Panasonic have been strategic partners forever. Not in the current market though. Even Tesla thinks Tesla is overpriced.

I think the big difference with Subaru is management chains. Toyota is taking a lot more active role in driving Subaru's product mix. I'd bet ten years out the shared part content between a Forester and a Rav4 is something more like 90%. I'm not sure Mazda can survive as a stand alone either. The EV transformation is going to shake up the industry top to bottom. When revolution happens - it happens fast.

Self driving is another game changer - but I don't know who has the lead there. The basic math tells met the current tesla hardware is not capable of safe full self driving (the cameras lack the resolving power to identify object size, shape, or relative velocity at a far enough distance). Maybe Waymo or GM? Even someone like DJI might come out of nowhere and upend the industry. You can't predict the black swan...
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It could be GM, but they are partnering with Honda on their first "production" autonomous vehicle - projected units is about 10k per year currently. My company won this business.
 
If the Landcruiser has a solid axle or axles, I may be in. I also doubt it though. Let's see what happens. I'm most interested in the 4R, Landcruiser, and the truck. No CVT or FWD for me.

I did look at the Tundra when buying a truck and the Sequoia when I needed a large SUV. Both were too dated and I just could not do it.
 
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My reliability issue is probably as important in my own driveway as anywhere. Broken down cars are a pain in the ass. I don't like the stress and frustration of leaving my car for work even if it is warranty work and I'm only out the cost of an UBER for a few days. The value of not having to think about it is hard to quantify, but it's very real. It becomes a lot more important when you've also driven some cars with really bad reliability.

I love the idea of a 70 series, but I kinda go back and forth on whether I'd actually buy one. I don't drive an 80 series for a lot of reasons. Most of those also would apply to an LC70. So... I like to say I'd buy one, but I don't know if I actually would unless it came with the 1VD-FTV. Then probably. But I'd also still rather have the 1VD or a modern replacement in a 4Runner or GX.
 
RichinRidgewood said:
GM claims they are leaving Australia, Thailand etc. to do this. That company is messed up more than its ever been.

Legendary Holden Brand Dead; GM Leaves Australia after 89 Years
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They are also leaving New Zealand and selling their Chevy factories in China to a Chinese automaker. GM has been pretty good at picking losers in the electric market (volt, bolt). I just can't see them being that successful. I guess the question will be if the government bails them out yet again when they fall on their face.
 
baldrik78 said:
Ease of extraction isn't my exact worry. Getting stranded 20 miles and 10,000 vertical feet from the nearest human contact or cell service with the sun going down is not something I want or need to experience even if its on a forest service road in good enough shape to handle a full flatbed tow truck.
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Well, my point being, middle of nowhere really isn't the middle of nowhere that it was 20 years ago or hell 100 years ago, that is hard to imagine. Not that anyone would want to in that situation but it's possible to walk twenty miles without dying, for most folks anyway. Not to mention the chances of not seeing another human for any amount of time has also decreased significantly. We're "lucky" enough now that most things are simply an inconvenience vs life and death.

But hey the new trail edition comes with a cooler! so you might have food/water to survive the 20 mile 10k foot inconvenience :D
 
I do often wonder. After the 6th gen comes out, will the resale value of those of us with 5th gen 4runners:

1) stay the same
2) go down sharply

(Assuming it is generally well-liked and not too far off from the capability of what the 4runner does currently)

I think if they address some of the issues that many of us whine about, the value of the 5th gen takes a hit, as a bunch of us trade in to a new model.

Thoughts?
 
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I don't think so. The used 4Rs are always on good demand and too many people cannot afford new $40K+ vehicles anymore.
 
jrandom said:
Well, my point being, middle of nowhere really isn't the middle of nowhere that it was 20 years ago or hell 100 years ago, that is hard to imagine. Not that anyone would want to in that situation but it's possible to walk twenty miles without dying, for most folks anyway. Not to mention the chances of not seeing another human for any amount of time has also decreased significantly. We're "lucky" enough now that most things are simply an inconvenience vs life and death.

But hey the new trail edition comes with a cooler! so you might have food/water to survive the 20 mile 10k foot inconvenience :D
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Ive been watching this house hunting show in Alaska and they were describing a house that was 20 miles outside of Anchorage as a long distance from town. Shows how things have changed when you talk in miles and not days.

$500k log cabins in Alaska. Lots of them. facepalm.
 
Within around 5 years there will most likely be no place on the entire planet that will not have high speed internet access. That will seriously change the experience of a lot of adventures. My other hobby is sailing. Even just a few miles off shore can feel really isolated. Having service like starlink will change that. I'm not sure for the better. The feeling of uncertainty, anxiety, and some fear mixed in of not knowing what will happen is part of the adventure.

The plus side is that they could have gotten that broke down Wrangler out of the Rubicon a few years ago with the ECU failure. Can't replace the ECU without live internet access. No internet access = new ECU doesn't do any good.
 
In reading the article, it sounds like the tundra will have a twin turbo v6. And it's pretty much a given that the tundra redesign is coming in about a year. If Toyota hits it out of the park with the twin turbo v6, and adds a 8 or 10 speed transmission in the tundra, it hopefully could transfer to the 4runner. I for one love the look of the current 4runner, and would be cool with very little to no changes on that end. Well I guess they could take some cues from the current rav4, which I really think looks sweet.

Or we could just get the engine/transmission from the Tacoma stuffed into the 4runner, and all be super bummed out.

One of these I am hoping for, one I expect. Hoping to be happy, expecting to be disappointed.
 
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Mikey2020 said:
In reading the article, it sounds like the tundra will have a twin turbo v6. And it's pretty much a given that the tundra redesign is coming in about a year. If Toyota hits it out of the park with the twin turbo v6, and adds a 8 or 10 speed transmission in the tundra, it hopefully could transfer to the 4runner. I for one love the look of the current 4runner, and would be cool with very little to no changes on that end.

Or we could just get the engine/transmission from the Tacoma stuffed into the 4runner, and all be super bummed out.

One of these I am hoping for, one I expect. Hoping to be happy, expecting to be disappointed.
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Or the drivetrain for the new Rav4 Prime, which is probably going to be awesome... in a Rav4.
 
Mikey2020 said:
In reading the article, it sounds like the tundra will have a twin turbo v6. And it's pretty much a given that the tundra redesign is coming in about a year. If Toyota hits it out of the park with the twin turbo v6, and adds a 8 or 10 speed transmission in the tundra, it hopefully could transfer to the 4runner. I for one love the look of the current 4runner, and would be cool with very little to no changes on that end.

Or we could just get the engine/transmission from the Tacoma stuffed into the 4runner, and all be super bummed out.

One of these I am hoping for, one I expect. Hoping to be happy, expecting to be disappointed.
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All the rumors I'm reading say V6 TT with CVT/hybrid and normally aspirated 3.5v6 with CVT/hybrid as the only option for the Land Cruiser. I'm honestly not sure what to think of that. Maybe a CVT works great combined with a hybrid. My bet would be that there would also be a non-hybrid with a standard 10 speed auto at least for the Tundra.

I think the 4runner will also almost certainly have a hybrid option if those two have it. I've yet to drive a CVT I like, but maybe it's okay if it's done right. I don't think it's impossible to have a great CVT.

Is there any reason to have a 2 speed transfer case if the CVT has a 10:1 equivalent low gearing option? Or the electric drive has 800lb/ft? Maybe the transfer case goes away?
 
I'm not so sure about Toyota putting a turbo in the 6Gen 4Runner. A couple years ago there was much ado about the new Honda Accord going to a 4 cylinder turbo and dropping the V6 whereas the new Camry that came out at about the same time stayed with the V6. At that time they appeared to be on the road to keeping everything naturally aspirated.

It makes sense to go with fewer cylinders and a larger displacement since the parasitic losses are less. The materials technology is there to make turbocharged engines last. I mean Toyota won the 24 hours of Le Mans with a V6 Turbo. They can make a durable 4 cylinder turbo engine that would work well in an SUV.
 
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