6th Generation Coming in 2022?

[Jetboy]

The data shows your about twice as likely to have engine, transmission, and power-train issues with a GMC Sierra as compared to a Tundra. Is it worth that extra failure rate to have updated features? Probably depends a lot on what you're doing with it.

GM is doing a lot better than some others BTW>

The biggest issue I have with the Tundra is just the mpg. It's not good enough to be competitive anymore. The interiors are okay. Dated for sure, but generally use higher quality materials, fabrics, etc. Typically the stitching isn't falling apart by 100k on the seats. The steering wheel is in front of the driver's seat. But 14-15mpg isn't good enough anymore. I keep seeing predictions of 30mpg for the new one, but I'm skeptical of that. If they get 22 or 23mpg with the hybrid torque curve - I think it'll be pretty popular.

If Toyota does a Tundra prime with double the Rav's system - the'll sell boat loads of them. The simple double formula would just be 5L NA v8, 40 miles EV range, 604hp, 1000 ft'lbs torque. Price it at $70k and they'd never be able to keep them in stock.

 

[Flyer]

If major issues, that is probably a lot but if the Tundra NUMBER of issues is very low then it is not a lot. It is something to consider with some deeper analysis. I just could not spend that kind of money for such old and dated tech and engine/transmission/MPG. That is exactly why I bought the Duramax Denali. If I had never driven one, the Tundra may have been it. Let's see what Toyota does with its 2022 Tundra and I'll decide if I should trade or not.

This Duramax is my first diesel I bought and it is so quiet inside and so powerful and comfy that I may be hooked. Oh, the cooled seat are amazing but the torque is insane. Dragging a travel trailer up the steep mountain passes is nothing, even though I like to keep it at recommended (65 MPH) speeds.

 

[Jetboy]

If major issues, that is probably a lot but if the Tundra NUMBER of issues is very low then it is not a lot. It is something to consider with some deeper analysis. I just could not spend that kind of money for such old and dated tech and engine/transmission/MPG. That is exactly why I bought the Duramax Denali. If I had never driven one, the Tundra may have been it. Let's see what Toyota does with its 2022 Tundra and I'll decide if I should trade or not.

This Duramax is my first diesel I bought and it is so quiet inside and so powerful and comfy that I may be hooked. Oh, the cooled seat are amazing but the torque is insane. Dragging a travel trailer up the steep mountain passes is nothing, even though I like to keep it at recommended (65 MPH) speeds.

The data is from a major auction system for used cars and they collect data on the repairs necessary to the auction vehicles before selling. I like it better than any other source I know of because it's objective and has millions of data points. I think for example it had about 60,000 F150s and 10,000 Tundras. It's not all cars, but enough to get a representative sample.

Driving my Sierra was great. Comfortable. Quiet. Pulled like a train. In fact it pulled better than a GMC 5500 we had at the same time. But it didn't stop a trailer nearly as well. I don't know how safe it is when I see people pulling 20,000lb trailers. The 5500 has a lot bigger brakes. Incidentally - the 5th gen 4runner actually has bigger brakes too. So I'm not sure that's saying a whole lot.

 

[ToyotaMacGyver]

I think having a new 6th gen following the styling of the new RAV4 is what Toyota will do and I’ll be really happy with that. I think the new Rav looks rugged and mean and will drool seeing a pro version 4Runner in that skin. I personally would like to see a SFA, shorter wheel base and a rear mounted spare. I’ll get on board with a hybrid version if it still gives us loads of low end torque and mid 20’s for MPG while keeping the current pricing tree.

 

[legrena]

That's a tough question.

 

[Srsd2850]

I would like to see the present engine get a dial with different driving modes and an ETC button. A good throttle controller makes the 5th gen feel like it has a new engine, why not give us this kind of capability built in from the factory? I had two vehicles with 8 speed transmissions and hated it. I specifically went to a new 4Runner to get away from that stuff. A 6 spd would be ok. Also, I’m not interested in buying the first year or two after release of a new and unproven engine.

 

[Bikeric]

No one is immune. But all of that was on the SAME one truck. In the case of the front diff - it had never had oil in it ever. So it was shipped from GM with no gear oil. That's the sort of quality control problem that plagues GM. And poor engineering. A crank position sensor inside the bell housing? There's no reason that should ever exist. And if it does, it should at least be accessible from the bottom, not the top. It requires removing the cab to access in the FSM. Not once have I ever seen any Toyota product with that type of shortcut in engineering. Toyota's BOF are way out of date. I'm fully in agreement with that. But they were properly engineered to begin with.

I guess you've never had a starter go out on a 4.7 V8? Step 1: Remove intake manifold.....

 

[Jetboy]

I guess you've never had a starter go out on a 4.7 V8? Step 1: Remove intake manifold.....

It's not ideal for sure - but it may actually be easier than some engine mounted starters that are very hard to access. Taking off the intake manifold on my 3.4 was about 45 minutes. Not fast- but actually pretty easy to do. Also GM already does that - or at least some GM v8's are done that way. At least on the Toyota version you're not also opening up cooling passages so you don't have to drain the coolant system first - and inevitably pour some coolant down the intake ports.

I don't think it really compares to some GM stuff though. Imagine that starter being inside the bell housing on top of the rear of the engine. For example GM's new I6 diesel. It has a belt driven oil pump that requires replacements at 150k. Okay - timing belts are easy enough. But wait - it's ON THE BACK OF THE ENGINE! And it cannot be removed without at a minimum removing the flex plate to fit the belt around the drive teeth on the crank shaft output. So you either get to remove the engine up through the hood - or more likely remove the transmission/transfer case at 150k on every one of them. Why would GM ever do that? Why would anyone ever do that?

What is that going to cost? $2500 for a belt replacement at 150k miles?

 

[mscot]

Why would GM ever do that? Why would anyone ever do that?

B/c GM knows their vehicles wind up in junkyards long before they ever reach 150k miles.

 

[Jetboy]

B/c GM knows their vehicles wind up in junkyards long before they ever reach 150k miles.

It's disappointing. I really want that new I6 duramax to be great. The idea is just what I'd want in a mid size SUV. the little 180hp 4cyl turbo diesels are not enough for a 4Runner size SUV in the USA. But an I6 with 280hp diesel - that would be the goldilocks engine. And probably exceed 30mpg in a 4Runner size SUV. And GM started with a clean slate design. There's just no reason for it. A simple gear drive pump could work great. Or a shaft drive pump with a belt that you can access from a side panel? Or any of the traditional oil pump options. Even an electric one would be better.

 

[mscot]

But an I6 with 280hp diesel - that would be the goldilocks engine. And probably exceed 30mpg in a 4Runner size SUV.

My TDI Touareg got mid to high 20s around town and in the 30s on long interstate trips. I really miss that engine.
The 4Runner has been quite a downgrade.

 

[NW.OH.T4R]

My TDI Touareg got mid to high 20s around town and in the 30s on long interstate trips. I really miss that engine.
The 4Runner has been quite a downgrade.

I really like the TDI Touregs. I wanted to move into a 3.0TDI Q5 from my S4, but there wasn't enough space in the backseat. The older gen Q7 TDI is just okay, but can look good with an aggressive wheel offset and all-terrains. The 3.0TDI is one of the more reliable VAG engines of recent history.

 

[leprechaun311]

I'm also waiting/ready for the new Bronco...
Going to park it right next to it's great grand father.

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[RichinRidgewood]

It's not ideal for sure - but it may actually be easier than some engine mounted starters that are very hard to access. Taking off the intake manifold on my 3.4 was about 45 minutes. Not fast- but actually pretty easy to do. Also GM already does that - or at least some GM v8's are done that way. At least on the Toyota version you're not also opening up cooling passages so you don't have to drain the coolant system first - and inevitably pour some coolant down the intake ports.

I don't think it really compares to some GM stuff though. Imagine that starter being inside the bell housing on top of the rear of the engine. For example GM's new I6 diesel. It has a belt driven oil pump that requires replacements at 150k. Okay - timing belts are easy enough. But wait - it's ON THE BACK OF THE ENGINE! And it cannot be removed without at a minimum removing the flex plate to fit the belt around the drive teeth on the crank shaft output. So you either get to remove the engine up through the hood - or more likely remove the transmission/transfer case at 150k on every one of them. Why would GM ever do that? Why would anyone ever do that?

What is that going to cost? $2500 for a belt replacement at 150k miles?

I cannot imagine the justification they used in the engineering design reviews to sell this crap-tastic "feature". That's assuming GM still even has design reviews.

One stone gets stuck between the belt and the pulley that are down low and boom new engine time.

2 gears and a shaft or even a chain and 2 gears inside the sump ... wtf is wrong with doing it like that?

 

[Jetboy]

I cannot imagine the justification they used in the engineering design reviews to sell this crap-tastic "feature". That's assuming GM still even has design reviews.

One stone gets stuck between the belt and the pulley that are down low and boom new engine time.

2 gears and a shaft or even a chain and 2 gears inside the sump ... wtf is wrong with doing it like that?

I think that the assembly is fully enclosed in the oil pan or the bell housing. So probably not prone to a rock - but definitely going to be washed in dirt/mud that gets in there. . But yeah - the choice to directly drive it off the crank shaft means that you have no choice but to separate the transmission to remove the belt or install a new one. That sucks. Even a belt drive off a secondary gear on the side would have made it replaceable without a ton of effort.

The choice to put on the rear I think has to do with vibration dampening. The closer it is to the flywheel the less effect it has on causing vibrations due to flex in the crank shaft. I'd guess it's a very very minor difference if it's measurable at all. But that's my best guess on why you might do that. I can't think of any other reason why you'd even try to make one fit on the back instead of the front.

 

[rdruss]

Don't be surprised if Toyota brings a Hybrid and/or EV for the new 4Runner.

 

[CO-Cygnus]

Don't be surprised if Toyota brings a Hybrid and/or EV for the new 4Runner.

Bring it.

 

[4RunnerNorway]

Cant wait

 

[4RunnerNorway]

Just replying here to post new thread. Need 15 posts.

 

[CO-Cygnus]

Just replying here to post new thread. Need 15 posts.

Well if you're just going to reply... give us some fun facts about Norway.