7th Generation 4Runner
- Thread starter 1engineer
- Start date
Threev8s
New member
Back on topic…I vote for keeping it mostly the same in terms of appearance, size, and overall utility (must stay BOF) and keeping it fairly simple.
Engine/Drivetrain:
Keep current V6 standard and do some minor tweaks as [MENTION=100496]blackworks[/MENTION] suggested (I am not a fan of decreased displacement with forced induction)
Optional V8…5.7 Liter V8 from Sequoia, LC, Tundra would be my dream (not a huge fan of the 4.6 from the GX460)
A Diesel (whatever they can manage to get approved here)
Availability of a manual transmission for all engine choices
Optional full-time 4WD on all trim levels
Optional KDSS on SR5
Other/Minutiae:
Wheels at least 7.5 inches wide on all 4Rs with a decent AT tire (The Grandtreks need to go)
Option for sunroof on base SR5 and base Trail
Heated AND Ventilated Seats in Trail Premium/SR5 Premium for the people that like softex but don’t want the swamp@$$
Locking gas door
Soft close rear hatch
A cargo cover more like the 4th gen
It would be nice to have a la carte options on the base trim levels and get a 4runner exactly the way you want it. If options were set up properly, the cost entry point could remain intact. But, for those willing to splurge, the opportunity would be there.
Engine/Drivetrain:
Keep current V6 standard and do some minor tweaks as [MENTION=100496]blackworks[/MENTION] suggested (I am not a fan of decreased displacement with forced induction)
Optional V8…5.7 Liter V8 from Sequoia, LC, Tundra would be my dream (not a huge fan of the 4.6 from the GX460)
A Diesel (whatever they can manage to get approved here)
Availability of a manual transmission for all engine choices
Optional full-time 4WD on all trim levels
Optional KDSS on SR5
Other/Minutiae:
Wheels at least 7.5 inches wide on all 4Rs with a decent AT tire (The Grandtreks need to go)
Option for sunroof on base SR5 and base Trail
Heated AND Ventilated Seats in Trail Premium/SR5 Premium for the people that like softex but don’t want the swamp@$$
Locking gas door
Soft close rear hatch
A cargo cover more like the 4th gen
It would be nice to have a la carte options on the base trim levels and get a 4runner exactly the way you want it. If options were set up properly, the cost entry point could remain intact. But, for those willing to splurge, the opportunity would be there.
Lester Lugnut
New member
How do you plan a vehicle 8-9 yrs. out not knowing what technologies will be available then?
1engineer
Moderator
Good question!
Very seldom does technology just "happen" as in appearing out of thin air. Technology usually evolves over time. For example: Adaptive cruise control. Cruise control has been available for 50 years. Radar has been available for about that long. Sonar the same. Some bright young fellow decided to combine the two awhile back and now it's trickling down from high end to regular vehicles.
If you want to take a peek into the future for mass market vehicle's technology, look no further than the top of the line Mercedes, Cadillacs and Lexus.
If you want to take a peek into the future for top luxury vehicles, take a look at the concept cars.
When looking at concept cars, most consumers stop at the shape and the lights. What they should be doing is looking at the features. I think adaptive cruise control (my example) first debuted around 20 years ago on a concept car! As a matter of fact, 20 years is about the time frame of new tech to work its way down from concept to reality. Some of the tech offered will flop. Some of it, like Entune or MyTouch, will gain acceptance and people will want it on everything.
Another example:
Many posts already in this thread want: Aluminum, more gears, smaller engine, etc. What is all that? Efficiency. They are kind of putting the cart before the horse though and coming up with the details and next actions before coming up with the critical success factors. Pretty soon I will give you guys a post on the critical thinking needed to plan a new machine.
Hope this helps.
Intruder
New member
I'm fine with those features only being on a certain trim level. I consciously avoided the Limited because I never want push button start and I don't feel the need for full time.
eddie333
New member
Based on several sources, we already hit Peak Oil sometime in the past 10 years; and at our current consumption world reserves should last up until around 2030-2050. Also, the U.S. reserves have about 29 billion barrels left, and we use roughly 7 billion barrels annually, just to give you a bleak idea of what the US oil situation would be like if we didn't rely on imports.
Here's the crux of the problem: Reports typically show how much total oil is left in reserves. The problem with this is that we go after the easily accessible oil first, and then it becomes increasingly difficult to reach certain supplies. So much of the 'reserves' are going to be unattainable or simply too costly to reach. No oil company is going to use one barrel of oil just to attain one barrel of oil. Not to mention once countries start running out and need to depend on imports, who's going to want to trade such a precious commodity to benefit another competing country?
Sorry for the long post, but I'm fully sold and ready to accept the fact that during my lifetime I will lose the ability to go off-roading in a gasoline powered vehicle.
1engineer
Moderator
Countries - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)
Several years ago the shale oil we are getting now was unrecoverable. Guess what...
The link I posted is for "proven" fields using today's tech. Who knows what tomorrow will bring. Unless you plan to live until you are 150 years old I wouldn't worry about not driving a gas powered vehicle. If you have a link that trumps mine then post it up.
JayceeP
New member
I think this claim/opinion expired a long time ago. Where have you been? As technology improves, more oil becomes economically viable. The US is now the worlds second largest producer and is producing more oil than it has in decades. Between Canada and the U.S. we would actually never need OPEC oil again. Surely in 100 years something better wil be available but in the mean time fill 'er up and cruise on. We literally have hundreds of billions of barrels underneath us. US production levels are CRUSHING totalitarian/dictatorship governments who need oil at $100 to keep their people happy.
There was a point in my life when the idea of losing the internal combustion engine seemed like a bad thing.
However we need to make some pretty large moves to reverse greenhouse gas emissions from a range of sources if we hope to prevent the type of climate change that would make living on this planet very hard.
I'm open to whatever cleaner more environmentally friendly options people smarter than myself can come up with. I would argue that everyone on this forum who deliberately purchased a 4Runner would describe themselves as a lover of the outdoors. If that's the case we should all have a vested interest in protecting it.
Bring on a 6th Gen Hybrid 4Runner!
However we need to make some pretty large moves to reverse greenhouse gas emissions from a range of sources if we hope to prevent the type of climate change that would make living on this planet very hard.
I'm open to whatever cleaner more environmentally friendly options people smarter than myself can come up with. I would argue that everyone on this forum who deliberately purchased a 4Runner would describe themselves as a lover of the outdoors. If that's the case we should all have a vested interest in protecting it.
Bring on a 6th Gen Hybrid 4Runner!
I don't see a problem with making it unibody. They can make a unibody plenty strong and stiff, but since it's mostly used for cars and crossovers, ruggedness is not a requirement in current designs. The Honda Ridgeline (and maybe Pilot?) used a kind of hybrid frame/unibody design. Unibody plus independent suspension lets them make the overall profile lower (more aerodynamic) without giving up ground clearance or interior space.
They have to improve the aerodynamics. If you look at any new cars these days, they all have tiny features to squeeze out the last bit of aerodynamic improvement, like splitters in front of the tires, beam-type windshield wipers, and details at the back to control airflow separation. The 4runner has basically none of that, it's just a big box.
I don't think 7 speed transmissions will last long (in more than one sense). They have a lot of moving parts and are very complex, so there is a lot to go wrong. It seems like a rugged one would be heavy. I don't like CVTs, but car manufacturers are moving that way. They are small and light, and they don't have a lot of moving parts. I don't know if they can stand up to off-road abuse or a lot of power, though.
The Honda Accord Hybrid has a really great drivetrain setup. You can think of it like an electronic CVT. It has an engine, and a motor that serves as a generator. There are batteries for storage, and some power electronics, then another motor to drive the wheels. It's basically an electric vehicle with an engine to generate electricity and help out the batteries. I think this is the way of the future.
I'm conflicted on what drivetrain setup would be best for off-roading. You could have one big electric motor attached to the transfer case, and one of the setups we have now. That would have the advantage of being able to send all the power to any one wheel if everything is locked together, but the downside of friction, binding, and mechanical complexity. It takes stiff (heavy) parts to move torque to all four corners. Or you could have a motor for each axle or even each wheel. A motor on each wheel has essentially all the benefits of open differentials, but almost none of the downsides. The only downside I can think of is that if only one wheel has traction, the maximum torque to that wheel is limited by the size of the motor. Maybe put a 100hp motor at each wheel and you'll have sufficient power for rock crawling while also being one of the fastest mid-size SUVs.
It doesn't matter what kind of engine drives the generator, so they will choose something with a high power to weight ratio. No transmission is needed and it can operate for maximum power or efficiency. It probably won't be a V8, but maybe they can play fake V8 noises in the cabin for people that insist on having a noisy truck. Aftermarket vendors could sell different sound profiles, like Gibson Exhaust sound.
Self-driving cars are coming, but in the mean time we'll see a lot more electronic driver aids. I expect aids that luxury cars have now to flow down to all cars as the safety people push for it, and luxury cars will start to be self-driving in limited situations. A 7th gen 4runner will probably have adaptive lights and auto high beams, radar cruise control/ automatic emergency braking, lane departure warning or lane keeping assist, blind spot monitoring, etc.
Power steering and A/C will be electric. Replacing the side mirrors with cameras could significantly reduce drag and improve visibility, so it's likely that we'll see that.
Basically, I expect to see most of the improvements that have been done on small cars in recent years carried over to trucks. It baffles me how inefficient truck designs still are when auto makers are so carefully optimizing smaller cars in every way. The fast that they use so much more gas means there's that much more room for improvement. Getting 1 mpg better out of a truck seams easily attainable, and it's a whole lot better than squeezing one more mpg out of a Prius that's already efficient.
They have to improve the aerodynamics. If you look at any new cars these days, they all have tiny features to squeeze out the last bit of aerodynamic improvement, like splitters in front of the tires, beam-type windshield wipers, and details at the back to control airflow separation. The 4runner has basically none of that, it's just a big box.
I don't think 7 speed transmissions will last long (in more than one sense). They have a lot of moving parts and are very complex, so there is a lot to go wrong. It seems like a rugged one would be heavy. I don't like CVTs, but car manufacturers are moving that way. They are small and light, and they don't have a lot of moving parts. I don't know if they can stand up to off-road abuse or a lot of power, though.
The Honda Accord Hybrid has a really great drivetrain setup. You can think of it like an electronic CVT. It has an engine, and a motor that serves as a generator. There are batteries for storage, and some power electronics, then another motor to drive the wheels. It's basically an electric vehicle with an engine to generate electricity and help out the batteries. I think this is the way of the future.
I'm conflicted on what drivetrain setup would be best for off-roading. You could have one big electric motor attached to the transfer case, and one of the setups we have now. That would have the advantage of being able to send all the power to any one wheel if everything is locked together, but the downside of friction, binding, and mechanical complexity. It takes stiff (heavy) parts to move torque to all four corners. Or you could have a motor for each axle or even each wheel. A motor on each wheel has essentially all the benefits of open differentials, but almost none of the downsides. The only downside I can think of is that if only one wheel has traction, the maximum torque to that wheel is limited by the size of the motor. Maybe put a 100hp motor at each wheel and you'll have sufficient power for rock crawling while also being one of the fastest mid-size SUVs.
It doesn't matter what kind of engine drives the generator, so they will choose something with a high power to weight ratio. No transmission is needed and it can operate for maximum power or efficiency. It probably won't be a V8, but maybe they can play fake V8 noises in the cabin for people that insist on having a noisy truck. Aftermarket vendors could sell different sound profiles, like Gibson Exhaust sound.
Self-driving cars are coming, but in the mean time we'll see a lot more electronic driver aids. I expect aids that luxury cars have now to flow down to all cars as the safety people push for it, and luxury cars will start to be self-driving in limited situations. A 7th gen 4runner will probably have adaptive lights and auto high beams, radar cruise control/ automatic emergency braking, lane departure warning or lane keeping assist, blind spot monitoring, etc.
Power steering and A/C will be electric. Replacing the side mirrors with cameras could significantly reduce drag and improve visibility, so it's likely that we'll see that.
Basically, I expect to see most of the improvements that have been done on small cars in recent years carried over to trucks. It baffles me how inefficient truck designs still are when auto makers are so carefully optimizing smaller cars in every way. The fast that they use so much more gas means there's that much more room for improvement. Getting 1 mpg better out of a truck seams easily attainable, and it's a whole lot better than squeezing one more mpg out of a Prius that's already efficient.
jrandom
New member
Because the tech Toyota is using is currently 8-9 years old. Nothing in a 4runner is bleeding edge, in fact nothing in any of Toyota's line is bleeding edge. You need to step up to less reliable cars like Mercedes, BMW, ect. if you want more current tech in an automobile IMO.
eddie333
New member
Yes I see your point, but 'technology' isn't going to create more oil. It could 'find' more, but at what expense? Oil was just too easy for us... It led us to do so many things, very quickly, but ultimately the oil-age will just be a small dot of time on humanity.
And, yes, I hope to drive a 7th gen 4Runner someday...
BlackWorksInc
New member
Hybrid technology is nothing more than an enviromentally negative gimmick/stop gap that is beyond its prime. Hybrids are not nearly the "Green" machines the Berkley Hobbits want you to believe, the explosion of Prius and other hybrids actually is extremely dissapointing and has more to do with CAFE standards and piss poor enviromentalism brought on by typically uninformed politicans and wanna-be enviromentalists.
Electric Vehicle technology is where the future is, but current techology is still in its early stages. Even IF somehow 30% of the American fleet was EVs, it would literally crash our country because the biggest threat to EV technology is the US itself. Our infrastructure is so out-dated, improperly managed, and decript that we can barely handle the current amount of EVs as is. Between rolling brown and black outs in a supposedly first world country, there are utility limitations to EVs (my understanding is that when you buy an EV in some districts that you have to check with the power supplier to make sure you don't have too many on the same block.)
All in all I'm all for greener technology, but the reality is right now most green technology is either complete marketing crap and/or does just bad or worse to the enviroment (current generation photovoltaic technology being an easy one to point out as well as wind and wave generators.)
All that aside, the reliability and technical issues that go with current hybrid and EV vehicles are just not something you want to tangle with on a vehicle meant for off-road. I wouldn't expect this technology and the infrastructure (hopefully) to even start meeting expectations for another decade or more.
Electric Vehicle technology is where the future is, but current techology is still in its early stages. Even IF somehow 30% of the American fleet was EVs, it would literally crash our country because the biggest threat to EV technology is the US itself. Our infrastructure is so out-dated, improperly managed, and decript that we can barely handle the current amount of EVs as is. Between rolling brown and black outs in a supposedly first world country, there are utility limitations to EVs (my understanding is that when you buy an EV in some districts that you have to check with the power supplier to make sure you don't have too many on the same block.)
All in all I'm all for greener technology, but the reality is right now most green technology is either complete marketing crap and/or does just bad or worse to the enviroment (current generation photovoltaic technology being an easy one to point out as well as wind and wave generators.)
All that aside, the reliability and technical issues that go with current hybrid and EV vehicles are just not something you want to tangle with on a vehicle meant for off-road. I wouldn't expect this technology and the infrastructure (hopefully) to even start meeting expectations for another decade or more.
1engineer
Moderator
[MENTION=66389]BlackWorksInc[/MENTION] I have to disagree with you a bit here. You go offroad right? What if I told you I could give you enough electricity to run your portable refrigerator and lights for a few day's camping? And what if I told you that you wasted that amount of energy while driving to the campsite and I am just going to capture that and give it back to you? How? Braking and spring energy. You waste a lot of energy braking (lost to heat) and every time you go over a bump your spring compresses and rebounds (gravity) and controlling that (shocks) could produce energy. When you get to yor campsite you don't have to worry about dual batteries or a generator because you captured all the energy you need on the 100 mile drive there. Interested now?
THESE are the type of ideas that I have for the future. More later.
Nope, steel frame.
BlackWorksInc
New member
I'm aware of those technologies and actually and very excited about them! I would love to see energy absorbing shock/spring technology start becoming mainstream, it will be interesting to see how well the technology will stand up to abuse/age; but initial testing just shows an amazing amount of energy to be tapped into (also why I love the idea of piezoelectric sheets under roadways!
) But my gripe is with reliability and durability, particularly in off-road situations (where most of this technology will probably not get into for a decade or so after its adoption into the mainstream vehicle world... so most likely no energy absorbing lift kits for a while 
) Tesla's a nice company, but they are replacing A LOT of batteries in their vehicles (as is Toyota in their Tesla derived, now defunct Rav4 EV program.) Tesla is on the bleeding edge of EV technology and the reliability and durability is already showing its growing pains. Combined with the infrastructure problem, I'm just don't see that technology being reliable enough in a decade or so to trust solely as propulsion for an off-road/towing vehicle.
As for Hybrid vehicles (setting the environmental lie part aside), I have even more concerns; I see a lot of issues with the hybrids and they way their designed just makes me squeamish at the thought of implementing it in a vehicle that some people want to take hundreds of miles from the nearest repair facility let alone where most tow trucks will never venture. Not to mention the idea of a CVT and/or motor generators worries me, at least the axle housings are steel and the differentials are fairly beefy; not so much on hybrids. There's benefits to the idea of running hybrid. But between battery issues, inverters, very limited servicability, and extremely dangerous components to deal with; they are not something I would want to see on a vehicle many people will rely on to get OUT of the woods alive.
One can't turn the tide of technology, but the reality is the more technology we're shoving in these vehicles the more failures we're seeing (wouldn't be surprised if much of the computer issues are tin whisker related... I'm not even going to open that bag of horrors right now.) In 15 years or so we're talking about a theoretical vehicle that will be highly computerized, very electrical, and probably have little mechanical components to work with; that is an extremely frightening idea based on just how much electrical issues modern vehicles have and how easily modern vehicles become glorified bricks at the very least due to these issues.
Charging the fridge and campsite is all fine and good, until Motor/Generator 1 fries out and takes out the communication bus which results in your vehicle dying completely with no power supply to tap into due to safeties/redundancies and you're 200 miles out in the middle of no where with no cell reception and no way to communicate and/or limp home. I'm all for new technology, but most of this very nice, highly complicated cutting edge stuff is best left on the road where its easy to tow your now "bricked" vehicle to the local shop and/or junkyard since they'll probably end up being disposable. But in 10-20 years I think we'll barely be working out the kinks with how our world is quick to adopt fancy new technology, but slower than tar to realize and respond to issues that arise from pushing technology too fast without proper testing/research.
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JSparky
New member
^This. I'm not sure what to believe. Rover and Jeep have both gone fully-independent in their wagons, and the next gen Wrangler is said to likely be aluminum body and independent as well. I don't want to speculate too much but what I will say is, to any Toyota engineers who may be reading this, if Toyota does decide to pursue a fully independent, adjustable ride height 4Runner, make sure it can be modified in such a way to run at increased ride-height full-time.
Jeep and Rover both offer adjustable ride height suspension, it's optional on the Grand Cherokee and standard I think on the Rovers (LR4/RR). Rover's are easily lifted using a ride-height sensor mod via a product called Johnson Rods. No one has figured out how to do this yet on Jeeps air-suspenion.. that's not to say it's not possible, it just hasn't been done.
I think I speak for a lot of us when I say it's nice to run oversized tires, both for off road performance and/or aesthetic appeal. Any new suspension system on a 4Runner should accommodate this.
Jono.ful
New member
why the hard-on for push button start? just one more electronic gizmo to break.
