7th Generation 4Runner

[8086bruce]

It's going to be a sad day when it turns into this...

No it's going to be a sad day when it turns into this...

 

[CrazyNorwegian]

hybrid technology is a great concept. In another 10 years recovering lost energy though suspension dampening could become a reality. But, I doubt the aftermarket world would follow. Like x-reas and kdss you will have to remove these systems if you want to really mod your vehicle. Who wants to pay $2k per shock from icon just because it has regenitive dampening technology. A basic hybrid system with just regenitive braking would be fine. It better be very water tight, I'd hate to see someone get electrocuted by over 200 volts while attempting a river crossing.

 

[T.Rock]

I'm fine with those features only being on a certain trim level. I consciously avoided the Limited because I never want push button start and I don't feel the need for full time.

Yeah, but keys are so, well, yesterday. You strike me as the kind of guy who also doesn't want A/C or power windows either....that is, until you have them. Then you'll hate to do without them. Same with push button start and smart keys. If I have to take my key or key fob out of my pocket to get in or start my vehicle, I'm not happy anymore. LOL @ our first world problems, huh?

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Yeah, but keys are so, well, yesterday. You strike me as the kind of guy who also doesn't want A/C or power windows either....that is, until you have them. Then you'll hate to do without them. Same with push button start and smart keys. If I have to take my key or key fob out of my pocket to get in or start my vehicle, I'm not happy anymore. LOL @ our first world problems, huh?

They could strip it down to no interior and a pull-start for all I care, but it better DAMN WELL HAVE AIR CONDITIONING!

On a side note, there's a satisfaction to turning a key... the Start-Hold function of the 4th Gens is more appealing to me than the Mercedes and Toyota Smart Key systems I deal with to be honest.

 

[T.Rock]

Based on several sources, we already hit Peak Oil sometime in the past 10 years; and at our current consumption world reserves should last up until around 2030-2050. Also, the U.S. reserves have about 29 billion barrels left, and we use roughly 7 billion barrels annually, just to give you a bleak idea of what the US oil situation would be like if we didn't rely on imports.

Here's the crux of the problem: Reports typically show how much total oil is left in reserves. The problem with this is that we go after the easily accessible oil first, and then it becomes increasingly difficult to reach certain supplies. So much of the 'reserves' are going to be unattainable or simply too costly to reach. No oil company is going to use one barrel of oil just to attain one barrel of oil. Not to mention once countries start running out and need to depend on imports, who's going to want to trade such a precious commodity to benefit another competing country?

Sorry for the long post, but I'm fully sold and ready to accept the fact that during my lifetime I will lose the ability to go off-roading in a gasoline powered vehicle.

Trust me, you and I will be long dead before the world runs out of oil. It just ain't gonna happen. Even the most conservative estimate is another 53 years. I don't know about you, but that puts me over 100 years old and well past my driving days if I somehow manage to become a Centenarian.

Have you heard of fracking shale? Do you realize what that means for the oil industry? Do yourself a favor and really research the subject and you'll come to the conclusion that your fears are unfounded.

 

[T.Rock]

Because the tech Toyota is using is currently 8-9 years old. Nothing in a 4runner is bleeding edge, in fact nothing in any of Toyota's line is bleeding edge. You need to step up to less reliable cars like Mercedes, BMW, ect. if you want more current tech in an automobile IMO.

Yup, and that conservative approach is exactly what makes companies like Honda and Toyota so reliable. They are slow to adopt technology, instead letting it become more mainstream and proven before equipping their mainstream vehicles with it. That's not a bad strategy for buyers who don't wish for all the latest and greatest tech in their cars.

 

[T.Rock]

Jeep and Rover both offer adjustable ride height suspension, it's optional on the Grand Cherokee and standard I think on the Rovers (LR4/RR). Rover's are easily lifted using a ride-height sensor mod via a product called Johnson Rods. No one has figured out how to do this yet on Jeeps air-suspenion.. that's not to say it's not possible, it just hasn't been done.

Sure it has. Read the Jeep forums. Guys have already started messing with the ride height sensors to provide a free "leveling" lift. I personally like the stock stance, but some people prefer the front wheel gap even with the back.

 

[T.Rock]

why the hard-on for push button start? just one more electronic gizmo to break.

Because I have it now and I like it. And if anything, I'd think the button is probably less likely to fail than a mechanical key cylinder ignition switch. Seriously, a start button is a pretty simple device. I highly doubt we'll see much of a failure rate in the future. And don't look at GM if you think a standard ignition is somehow infallible. LOL

 

[Intruder]

Yeah, but keys are so, well, yesterday. You strike me as the kind of guy who also doesn't want A/C or power windows either....that is, until you have them. Then you'll hate to do without them. Same with push button start and smart keys. If I have to take my key or key fob out of my pocket to get in or start my vehicle, I'm not happy anymore. LOL @ our first world problems, huh?

Nope, I like my AC, power windows with express up and down, and my phone is paired to the bluetooth system. If my truck stalls while I'm moving I know how to bump it into neutral, turn the key to start it again, and bump it back into drive without missing a beat. I also prefer having rear wheel drive when I'm on pavement and only putting it into 4Hi when needed. I have nothing against technology - I work for one of the largest tech companies in the world and I'm typing this on a Macbook Pro Retina with an SSD while my Nexus 6 is charging through an induction coil - I just think some tech is less useful to me than others.

 

[JSparky]

Sure it has. Read the Jeep forums. Guys have already started messing with the ride height sensors to provide a free "leveling" lift. I personally like the stock stance, but some people prefer the front wheel gap even with the back.

Hadn't seen it yet, but I don't spend much time on GC forums. Good to know though.

 

[T.Rock]

If my truck stalls while I'm moving I know how to bump it into neutral, turn the key to start it again, and bump it back into drive without missing a beat.

Works just the same with the push-button start, only you push a button instead of turning a key.

But still, I can't even remember the last time one of my vehicles stalled. And that includes my manual transmission Audi too. LOL:rockon:

 

[1engineer]

Nope, I like my AC, power windows with express up and down, and my phone is paired to the bluetooth system. If my truck stalls while I'm moving I know how to bump it into neutral, turn the key to start it again, and bump it back into drive without missing a beat. I also prefer having rear wheel drive when I'm on pavement and only putting it into 4Hi when needed. I have nothing against technology - I work for one of the largest tech companies in the world and I'm typing this on a Macbook Pro Retina with an SSD while my Nexus 6 is charging through an induction coil - I just think some tech is less useful to me than others.

It gets old to be on the cutting edge sometimes. I like reliability.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

It gets old to be on the cutting edge sometimes. I like reliability.

I agree with that completely which is why I'm not a fan of Hybrid and Electric Vehicles right now, the technology just isn't reliable enough for off-road use in my opinion and probably won't be for a decade or so.

 

[ben550]

Hybrid is a dirty word. I will not use it in the same sentence with a 4runner. Now that the first issue is out of the way, I'd like to add a suggestion.

Below is a quote from another Toyota site:

"Every day, your 4runner is a type of all wheel drive. what this means is on dry roads, power is going to all 4 wheels, but each diff (front, rear, and center) is equalizing the loads from each wheel and each axle, resulting in normal performance. if for any reason one wheel spins, all power will be transferred to that wheel, resulting in a loss of traction and forward (or reverse) progress.

when you engage the center diff lock, you are turning your AWD system into a traditional 4 wheel drive system, like the one i have in my 4runner. this center diff lock locks out the center diff, effectively linking the front and rear drive shafts together. if you lose traction on the front axle, all the power going to the front axle will go to the wheel with no traction, BUT, the rear axle will still get the same amount of power.

similarly, with a locked rear axle for example, power will go to the wheel with least traction, but with a axle diff lock, power will be split equally between the wheels."

Take note (the above post might not be totally correct) but in most cases it seems that power is sent or diverted to the wheels which are slipping...

The technology might already exist and be out there but it is not on my 4runner so I'll add it to my wishlist for the 7th Gen. I would like to see a "smart" 4wd system installed... one which would create an extremely capable vehicle without lockers. This system would use the sensors which detect wheel slipping (we already have that technology) and counter the "path of least resistance" which sends more power to the slipping wheel rather sending more or all the power to the wheels that are not slipping. I don't think this system exists yet but it would be nice. There has got to be a way to do that whether its having a system in the differential which detects high rpm's and disengages that wheel allowing all power to go to the other wheel...

Just an idea.

 

[sandcrawler]

Nope, I like my AC, power windows with express up and down, and my phone is paired to the bluetooth system. If my truck stalls while I'm moving I know how to bump it into neutral, turn the key to start it again, and bump it back into drive without missing a beat. I also prefer having rear wheel drive when I'm on pavement and only putting it into 4Hi when needed. I have nothing against technology - I work for one of the largest tech companies in the world and I'm typing this on a Macbook Pro Retina with an SSD while my Nexus 6 is charging through an induction coil - I just think some tech is less useful to me than others.

totally agreed. my wife's car's "smart"-key is a constant source of irritation. "where's the key?" "don't know exactly, but who cares right now: the car started, let's go." then, having forgotten about it, i'll inevitably drop her off somewhere and the car will freak the f-out because she walked away with the key at the bottom of her bag. i then have to A) call her back, B) walk away from an unlocked car, or C) sit and wait until she returns. where's my Trail's "old-fashioned" key? are we going anywhere? then it's right in the steering column. every. single. time.

i love tech, but i love its careful, thoughtful implementation even more. this kind of "editing" is one of the things i love most about my TE; engineers knowing when to say "no". it's not about throwing tech willy-nilly at everything. it's about taking what works and then committing oneself to the restrained, considered iteration that moves things forward without sacrificing reliability on the altar of "progress".

more broadly, i think it's fair to say this concept is the central core of the Toyota Production System, and the reason why it's still considered the gold-standard the world over.

 

[Intruder]

Works just the same with the push-button start, only you push a button instead of turning a key.

But still, I can't even remember the last time one of my vehicles stalled. And that includes my manual transmission Audi too. LOL:rockon:

Really? Every push button start I've been in (both my parents' cars and various rentals) require you to have your foot on the brake while pushing the button. But I guess if you've never stalled it you haven't had to try it. And yeah, I've seen lots of vehicles stall on steep hill climbs. Anyhow, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this.

 

[Donkey]

Think back to the 2003 4Runner.

Crazy to think that in 2003 the iPhone would not exist for four more years.

Somehow my 4Runner can function perfectly with a device that literally did not exist when the vehicle was originally in product development. That is remarkable, also remarkable is how much we take it for granted.

I've spent my entire career in pre-sales systems engineering and product development for one of the largest technology companies in the world. I never stopped being amazed at the pace of product development and industry turning points, but the sales and marketing side really burned me out.

A company's mission statement and vision will provide insight in to their future.
Toyota's Mission Statement: "To attract and attain customers with high-valued products and services and the most satisfying ownership experience in America." Vision Statement: "To be the most successful and respected car company in America."

I believe we will continue to see incremental and predictable improvements to efficiency (power train, materials, LPG commercial fleets, aero, stop/start, highlander like assist, diesel, focus on emerging markets, etc...) but we will reach a tipping point in the next 10-15 years that will introduce revolutionary changes and new alternative technologies to the mainstream. Autonomy and technology integration. Fuel cell technology. Industrial diesel-electric and racing technologies (think Liebherr T 282, or the KERS systems used in F1, Hino power train technologies) will filter down to the consumer level. Companies such as Tesla and Local Motors will continue to innovate at a pace not imagined by the majors, and they will be forced to adapt to the pace (ie continue "to be the most successful and respected car company") or die. Imagine having reliable 100% peak torque at 1 RPM, or visiting a gas pump once or twice per year - sounds good to me.

If Akio Nishimura is leading any effort with future Toyota SUV's I think we are in good hands. Current industry trends are lighter, lower and more aero yet power and performance are still increasing. It is fun to imagine what comes next, thank you for starting this thread.

I'm holding on to my 4Runner type vehicle with a real key until the next tipping point. Can't see the Sequoia, Land Cruiser, highlander, and the 4Runner continuing on without some product consolidation.

I don't know which technology will stick, but I do know that both of my sons will be strongly encouraged to be STEM majors.

 

[Jayhawk5G]

Hybrid technology is nothing more than an enviromentally negative gimmick/stop gap that is beyond its prime. Hybrids are not nearly the "Green" machines the Berkley Hobbits want you to believe, the explosion of Prius and other hybrids actually is extremely dissapointing and has more to do with CAFE standards and piss poor enviromentalism brought on by typically uninformed politicans and wanna-be enviromentalists.

Electric Vehicle technology is where the future is, but current techology is still in its early stages. Even IF somehow 30% of the American fleet was EVs, it would literally crash our country because the biggest threat to EV technology is the US itself. Our infrastructure is so out-dated, improperly managed, and decript that we can barely handle the current amount of EVs as is. Between rolling brown and black outs in a supposedly first world country, there are utility limitations to EVs (my understanding is that when you buy an EV in some districts that you have to check with the power supplier to make sure you don't have too many on the same block.)

All in all I'm all for greener technology, but the reality is right now most green technology is either complete marketing crap and/or does just bad or worse to the enviroment (current generation photovoltaic technology being an easy one to point out as well as wind and wave generators.)

All that aside, the reliability and technical issues that go with current hybrid and EV vehicles are just not something you want to tangle with on a vehicle meant for off-road. I wouldn't expect this technology and the infrastructure (hopefully) to even start meeting expectations for another decade or more.

Well honestly there is no perfect solution, but I would hesitate to call hybrids a "lie." Th exhaust emissions we put out by driving pale in comparison to factories and coal burning power plants. So I would argue that pure EV tech is more of a lie, because if we don't address where the electricity comes from to power our "green" electric vehicle we are merely passing the carbon buck to the power plant instead of our tailpipe.

I'm excited that people smarter than myself are looking at lots of solutions, from hydrogen powered vehicles, to solar power, electric, etc.

I guess you could play the long game and say that none of this matters as the sun will exhaust it's hydrogen fuel which will have been converted through fusion into helium and it will expand and destory the earth... in roughly 4.5 billion years.

 

[1engineer]

Well honestly there is no perfect solution, but I would hesitate to call hybrids a "lie." Th exhaust emissions we put out by driving pale in comparison to factories and coal burning power plants. So I would argue that pure EV tech is more of a lie, because if we don't address where the electricity comes from to power our "green" electric vehicle we are merely passing the carbon buck to the power plant instead of our tailpipe.

I'm excited that people smarter than myself are looking at lots of solutions, from hydrogen powered vehicles, to solar power, electric, etc.

I guess you could play the long game and say that none of this matters as the sun will exhaust it's hydrogen fuel which will have been converted through fusion into helium and it will expand and destory the earth... in roughly 4.5 billion years.

OT for a sec:
You really don't believe CO2 causes global warming right?

 

[Jayhawk5G]

OT for a sec:
You really don't believe CO2 causes global warming right?

I'll bite... I absolutely do.