A proverbial fork in the road - to fix or sell?

[Mount]

Bought a black '99 SR5 about 2.5 years ago as a low cost, dependable second vehicle to drive the 3 miles to work, tow firewood, and take on weekend trips to the woods here and there. The 4Runner was a Craigslist find, and got it for $4k with 145k mi on it from a shoeless hippy leasing a small electricity-free house in PA's Amish country. I thought I got a decent deal on the thing, despite the fact that it was filthy inside and out and needed an immediate timing belt/water pump/coolant flush/tranny flush/plugs/wires/fuel filter/air filter/disinfection.


As purchased - namaste!

I bought the Runner while in grad school, with the corresponding grad school budget. So even though I longed to lift/tires/armor this thing I was able to talk myself out of it because I live in the Mid-Atlantic and use for those mods would be limited (but it would look so good ...). But now my wife is out of grad school, so our budget isn't as tight as it once was, so mods have crept back into my viewfinder.


Weekend getaway in WV last October

Currently it sits much the same as it did 3 weeks after I bought it. But, it's wracked up 15k more miles and aged some, too. The current situation (and approximate cost to remedy) is this -

1. Blown rear axle seals
2. Oil saturated rear brakes thanks to (1) [1+2 = ~$1200 dealer fix)
3. Worn front brakes ($500 Tundra brake upgrade)
4. A 16 year old suspension that needs replacement (which means lift ...) [$700-1300 Toytec lift]
5. Original 5 star wheels that are very nicely corroded [$500 to replace with other OEMs]
6. 2 tires of one age and brand, and 2 of another [$800-1000]
7. A developing exhaust leak (due to rust) [$300]
8. Front and rear bumpers with some rust and some more rust on the frame (but nothing too crazy) [$1300]


Driver side

9. Pitted and etched clear coat due to PO lack of hygiene [?? I tried using ScratchX to fix, and it helped, but still needs more work to restore original shine, and I kind of think it may never happen with this paint job...)


Example of etching

In other words, this puts me looking at approx. $5300 - 6100 to get this rig where I would like to see it. And as much as my wife and I love this thing - I don't know if I can swallow dishing out more than I bought the thing for in repairs and upgrades. Nor can I do this half-way - like most of the folks on this forum, I tend to obsess over my vehicles. Thus, my obsession with this one is driving me crazy and I need to do something!

And here is where the proverbial fork in the road appears, do I just sell this Runner and get something a little less in need? Any and all $0.02 is appreciated.

 

[JohnMc]

You'll spend more than that on another 3rd gen, and it won't have a bunch of nice new parts on it. If you spend any less, it will have lots more miles and probably as many issues.

If you're worried about the costs, start learning to do some of the work yourself.

 

[KidVermicious]

And here is where the proverbial fork in the road appears, do I just sell this Runner and get something a little less in need? Any and all $0.02 is appreciated.

Get out your wrenches. Half of your list of repairs are cosmetic shit, not repairs, and the other half can be done in your driveway with a basic tool set and an FSM.

 

[Be_Original]

You'll spend more than that on another 3rd gen, and it won't have a bunch of nice new parts on it. If you spend any less, it will have lots more miles and probably as many issues.

If you're worried about the costs, start learning to do some of the work yourself.

Agree! I too have been in a similar situation where I felt I was heading the wrong direction in my build and wanted to start over with another 4Runner. That just meant more money though. The biggest way you will save money is looking up deals for parts through group buys and surfing the web and DOING THE WORK YOUR SELF. There is tons of valuable information and how to's on this forum.

 

[meRockboost]

Junk yard rear axle is $500, front brakes are $100 for pads and rotors on rock auto, clay bar and wax the paint to save what you can, plastidip the wheels for $20, 99 tall coils and shocks are cheaper than a toytec lift, find good used tires on Craigslist, $50 in rust converter and undercoat from lowes to fix the frame.

 

[LodeRunner]

An interesting dilemma for sure. Each of the items you listed are things that most 3rd Gen owners are going to face or have faced at some point. I keep pouring money into my '97 as needed using the argument that it's still better than having a car payment. In my case I have a little more emotional attachment since I'm the original owner and plan to keep it forever because I love the thing so much.

I guess one perspective to help you would be to ask the question, could you get what you're looking for in terms of capability and utility for $10,000 or less? That would be about the amount you'd have invested in your current rig if you addressed all those items.... All other things being equal I'd invest in your current rig, get to know it better in the process, and enjoy it!

 

[Brveagle]

If you are stressing about the money, start with the needs. Brakes and rear axle seals. No sense in spending money on a lift if you dont have the cash to blow. Bilstein 4600's and some ome springs are cheap and effective.

 

[SnowLizard]

that's not as bad as my 97... 193k miles and it has a rust hole through the roof.

dealer prices are crazy. I priced out the rear axle... I think I'm only $300 into swapping my seals, that's NOT the bearings, but does include NEW brakes AND rear brake cyl's... cause one is bad...

IMO, IF you decide to keep it long term, have a local shop toyota shop fix the axle, I got quote 1800 from dealer to swap bearings, but local "desert toy(ota) shop" did it for 1k out the door on my 99.

with the number of miles, you already know the quirks, I say keep it. sure it has rust, but you know the spots. simple sand and por15... IMO it's not too bad on rust, replace the skid with lil skif's and and clean up the rest, replace rusty suspension parts with new stuff as you go along.

bottom line, IMO keep it

 

[Mount]

Get out your wrenches. Half of your list of repairs are cosmetic shit, not repairs, and the other half can be done in your driveway with a basic tool set and an FSM.

Agreed - the only job I really worry about doing myself would be the axle seals. No garage means I would be risking leaving the axles exposed while I took the axles to a machine shop to press on the new parts. But front brakes are definitely driveway-doable.

 

[Mount]

If you are stressing about the money, start with the needs. Brakes and rear axle seals. No sense in spending money on a lift if you dont have the cash to blow. Bilstein 4600's and some ome springs are cheap and effective.

Making these repairs in a sensible order over a few months will make it affordable. I agree with starting on the brakes and seals, then once the rig can stop reliably, go from there!

 

[Mount]

I guess one perspective to help you would be to ask the question, could you get what you're looking for in terms of capability and utility for $10,000 or less? That would be about the amount you'd have invested in your current rig if you addressed all those items.... All other things being equal I'd invest in your current rig, get to know it better in the process, and enjoy it!

Great point - and the more I look into other potential vehicles around the $10k range, there's nothing I'd want more than what I've got now, with some shiny new parts on it.

 

[Mount]

that's not as bad as my 97... 193k miles and it has a rust hole through the roof...

bottom line, IMO keep it

Rust hole through the roof!? In AZ?!

and I think keeping it seems to be consensus, and that gives me some peace of mind. Now to call a non-dealer shop for a price ...

 

[Rocky5000100]

Rust hole through the roof!? In AZ?!

and I think keeping it seems to be consensus, and that gives me some peace of mind. Now to call a non-dealer shop for a price ...

I just had my rear axles seals/bearings and drum hardware replaced (leaking oil like you). Cost was $700 for rear seals/bearings, and $200 for drum hardware at a local shop.

From what I've been told, this is high, and I should've paid closer to $500 for the axle seals and bearings. So definitely shop around for that.

And you don't NEED to do the Tundra brake upgrade. You can save a good chunk of change if you just replace pads/rotors and bleed.

 

[Nelsonmd]

1. Blown rear axle seals
2. Oil saturated rear brakes thanks to (1) [1+2 = ~$1200 dealer fix)
3. Worn front brakes ($500 Tundra brake upgrade)
4. A 16 year old suspension that needs replacement (which means lift ...) [$700-1300 Toytec lift]
5. Original 5 star wheels that are very nicely corroded [$500 to replace with other OEMs]
6. 2 tires of one age and brand, and 2 of another [$800-1000]
7. A developing exhaust leak (due to rust) [$300]
8. Front and rear bumpers with some rust and some more rust on the frame (but nothing too crazy) [$1300]
9. Pitted and etched clear coat due to PO lack of hygiene [?? I tried using ScratchX to fix, and it helped, but still needs more work to restore original shine, and I kind of think it may never happen with this paint job...)

In other words, this puts me looking at approx. $5300 - 6100 to get this rig where I would like to see it. And as much as my wife and I love this thing - I don't know if I can swallow dishing out more than I bought the thing for in repairs and upgrades. Nor can I do this half-way - like most of the folks on this forum, I tend to obsess over my vehicles. Thus, my obsession with this one is driving me crazy and I need to do something!

And here is where the proverbial fork in the road appears, do I just sell this Runner and get something a little less in need? Any and all $0.02 is appreciated.

1. Get the seal drivers from HF for $40, do it yourself, seals are IIRC less then $15, so about $60 total.
2 & 3. Do the brakes yourself. It may be a bit tough the first time you do it if you have alot of rust, but it's definitely worth learning. Shops/Dealers are not all that trustworthy, so I like doing my own brakes.
4. Unless you really need the lift, go OEM for about $600. If you really want the lift, you're actually looking at the difference, so about $400 in difference from the OEM. I lifted mine because I found deals and got it for the same price as OEM, but keep in mind you may cause other problems by going up 3". Keep it under 3" and you should be able to get away with only the cost of the suspension.
5. So what if they're corroded? Are they losing air consistently? Mine are corroded too, no big deal. You don't need them to shine. If you want that, clean them up and paint them. Tons of guys do that and they look great.
6. Sure, tires are expensive, I paid about a grand for great winter tires (duratracs). Does Delaware get that much snow? You should be able to get away for around $800
7. Take it to an exhaust shop and just have them repair it. It'll probably be less than $100 for a quick weld job.
8. $7 for some rust converter. So what if your bumpers don't look perfect. You're just starting out. Save some money. Or hit up the salvage yards.
9. I'd just make sure to seal it up so it doesn't corrode further. If it's in a very conspicuous spot, then put some black paint on then clear coat it.

So I think I have you getting away for less than $2k. Keep in mind that you are not going to get all your "wants" without dropping a lot more money than you are comfortable with.

Deal with your out of budget desires. We all have them.

 

[SnowLizard]

Rust hole through the roof!? In AZ?!

and I think keeping it seems to be consensus, and that gives me some peace of mind. Now to call a non-dealer shop for a price ...

keep in mind it was a so cal car, for 150k, then a northern AZ (flagstaff) car for 2 yrs/40k

I think from the salt dmg, it was 'registered' in flagstaff, but driven somewhere with LOTS of salt. maybe a snow bird or Utah/Colorado driver.

when I picked it up @ 192k I didn't 'see' as much as I do now... my 99 is spot clean from this 97 'learning experience'


IMO, I think if you just replace simple things, you'll be about a grand, IF you do it yourself.
$272 - rear leaking axle - from dealership (brakes, in/out seals, both brake cyl's) - my 97 needs this, not doing bearings
$195 - bilsteins 5100 - wheelers -off road (height adjustable! use your stock springs) - my 99 needs this
$220 - OEM lower ball joints - dealership (MAKE SURE TO ASK FOR preferred customer DISCOUNT, I'm a regular so it's 10% for me)
$252 - pads rotors shims - 05 tundra was from stealership...
$160 - 13WL calipers - napa - (don't forget $110 core charge, they will take the old) - for 99 cause 97 needs calipers and 99 was in good shape
$ 72 - front brake lines - stainless steel wheelers off-road - if you need them.

total = 921
and you're rolling again.

for me, I'm adding:
Light Racing UCA bal joint - $425 wheelers off road - my 99 needs bushings AND ball joints
rear AND front diff breathers - yet to price

 

[gamefreakgc]

Repairs first, then mods. I know you want to lift, updgrade, mod, etc. but you don't want to get halfway and then find something serious. Any mod you do is a one-way street, you will not get your money back if you try and sell.

Some of those items can be patch welded or fixed in a drieway. Front brakes are super easy on these 4Runners and don't worry about doing a rear axle in the open. There's really nothing that that will hurt it from being outside. Rear brakes are complicated because of the springs on the drums but very doable. Just keep at least one fully assembled so you have a reference!

 

[mnkeith]

Sounding similar to me....

Just bought Level 8s & Cooper AT3s this morning for $1k mounted and shipped via Discount Tire.

Just did a rear axle seal (rear bearing spec'd ok) and it was a couple hours and $20 in parts. Pretty basic hand tools.

Don't see the point in the Tundra upgrade. Stick with stock and don't use cheap pads.

I did OME springs & KYB HD struts/shocks. Fairly reasonable, not much more than quality OEM replacements. 30K on that setup already, never looked back.

My paint sucks. I don't really care. It makes the routine door dings that I get from my office parking ramps very tolerable. ha. I used to have a BMW 5 series that gave me anxiety attacks.


The last bonus. You know this truck. Buy something else (used) and the discovery process starts all over again. If the drivetrain and chassis are solid, you'd be a fool selling it given the money you have into it.

Good luck!

You can send me 10% of your savings from your initial estimate, PM for details. :heh:

 

[KidVermicious]

Agreed - the only job I really worry about doing myself would be the axle seals. No garage means I would be risking leaving the axles exposed while I took the axles to a machine shop to press on the new parts. But front brakes are definitely driveway-doable.

Axle seals are super easy, a thirty minute job. If you're talking bearings too that's another story, but there's no real worry in leaving the housing un-axled. Duct tape some grocery bags over the exposed ends if you're really worried, but unless you're expecting serious weather I wouldn't bother, myself.

 

[Mount]

Axle seals are super easy, a thirty minute job. If you're talking bearings too that's another story, but there's no real worry in leaving the housing un-axled. Duct tape some grocery bags over the exposed ends if you're really worried, but unless you're expecting serious weather I wouldn't bother, myself.

Everything I've read and heard about the rear axle seals is that the root of the problem is "excessive radial play in the wheel bearing. This play causes the axle to ride on the seal causing it to wear and fail. The incorrect and temporary repair for this condition is the replacement of the seal. The appropriate repair is the replacement of the seal and bearing" (my buddy who is a tech at the local Toyota dealer). So if I do the seals, I'm going to do the bearings, too. I want this thing to last me a good long while yet.

But it sounds like it's doable. BigFishAllDay's write up is pretty extensive and I'd plan on referring to that for the bearings/seals replacement. Part of the reason I bought the 4runner was because I was tired of having vehicles I couldn't wrench on, so if the risk of me screwing something up too bad is low, wrenching at home is the preferred route (not to mention saving $$$).

 

[gamefreakgc]

Everything I've read and heard about the rear axle seals is that the root of the problem is "excessive radial play in the wheel bearing. This play causes the axle to ride on the seal causing it to wear and fail. The incorrect and temporary repair for this condition is the replacement of the seal. The appropriate repair is the replacement of the seal and bearing" (my buddy who is a tech at the local Toyota dealer). So if I do the seals, I'm going to do the bearings, too. I want this thing to last me a good long while yet.

But it sounds like it's doable. BigFishAllDay's write up is pretty extensive and I'd plan on referring to that for the bearings/seals replacement. Part of the reason I bought the 4runner was because I was tired of having vehicles I couldn't wrench on, so if the risk of me screwing something up too bad is low, wrenching at home is the preferred route (not to mention saving $$$).

It's very true about the bearings, my dealer said the same thing and they get axle seal leaks all the time. They don't even consider changing the seal without changing the bearings.

Except for those on here who are mechanics by profession, we all started tinkering around on vehicles for one reason or another. I was in that same boat, was a broke college student who couldn't afford taking it to a shop so had to learn how to fix it myself every time my old Pickup broke down. I have to say though, forums like these are a huge help to those just starting out.