A smaller version ot the 4Runner

[Ron Helmuth]

you and your factoids

hmmm I am still skeptical. The very fact Chrysler got their mitts into them has cheapened the brand in my eyes. Don't get me wrong sir the Jeep is a fine off road stalwart. I admire them and respect them on the trail. I bring along an extra axle or three just in case they need them he he he....

I don't question your facts Thai -it's this gleeful attitidue you bring to the Heep pushing that rankles me on this Yota forum.


You are insinuating nay justifying how safe these things are nowdays. An airbag is not gonna do crap when a lifted bumper or semi hits these things from the side with the soft top on....

I'm talking structure and integrity-not paste ons like airbags.

To each his own. My son is just turned 16. Personally I would not allow him near a Jeep for another 16 years if I get my way.

You yourself make smarter choices-I see it in your sig I am not turning this into a personal attack sir.

Chalk me up as an irrational fool -but I have to believe government crash stats would back this up.

A side impact in a Heep is going to be a life altering event. In a Runner-an FJ- the structural rigidity is significantly stronger.

I have no facts-I don't make snap judgements- I just have no faith in the Heep way....

the Rav4 was a concession to the dudes who hope to get their wives' in a few years and start modding em. It was a joke.

I'll never concede a newer Jeep is a safer ride than a 1st or even 2nd gen. Yeah I saw them flip em with the outriggers. I can do that with most any car and most certainly a lifted truck. Safer than a 3rd gen...maybe, those got a bit tall before the springs came down in size. You may have me there.

And I still like ya dude and your cute kid too.

just can't go your way on this one.

Sports cars are a whole other animal, there is no comparison.I got no problem with ya pushing Miatas or Eclipses or G37s or the Z car.

Heeps are not in our league-I have friends that drive em and even they lust for the Runners deep down. They can't admit on line and in front of their friends-but quality -build quality-is something the Heeps have never demonstrated. They know it and we know it on this forum. I gots to be constantly lurking in the late nights to find this gleeful push of competition products.

I like the Isuzu Vehicross for example-but heck no I will never recommend one over a Yota product-(except maybe the Rav4 hee heee)

 

[Thai]

Re: you and your factoids

hmmm I am still skeptical.

No problem, Ron. No offense taken. This is actually a fun discussion...i love to talk about every vehicle out there! I am all about facts...i know...and btw, i am going to discuss each of your points as best as i can.

I appreciate other vehicles because i try to be open-minded and not get stuck with "Toyota is #1 in everything" mentality. I am excited about certain vehicles...and i guess that it shows.

I encourage you to head over to your local Jeep dealership and take a peek under a Jeep Wrangler. It's frame and crossmembers are not that much different from your 4runner. This is not your dad's Jeep Wrangler anymore...it now comes with fully-boxed frame with at least 8 crossmembers. I think that the front end is hydroformed (but don't quote me on this). The body has been reinforced to withstand crash forces from front and side.

The Wrangler Rubicon axles are super strong...probably stronger than any 4runner axles. They are Dana 44 plus...BTW, it is a consensus on FJ Forum that this Dana 44 plus is indeed stronger than the rear axle on FJ. They are actually stronger than the regular Dana 44 of past years. On less Wranglers, the rear axle is Dana 44 on most models. So, i don't think that you need to carry any spare axles for your friends anymore.

Don't get me wrong, i am sure that a 4th gen 4runner or FJ Cruiser is better than Jeep Wrangler in a side crash. But, it isn't as bad as everyone thinks.

As for my choices, back in 2004, my top 3 choices were: G500, Wrangler Rubicon, and GX470 KDSS. I had to cross Rubicon off the list early on because it did not come with ABS. This has all been corrected now with the current generation of Wrangler. Therefore, IF i had to do it all over again AND the current Wrangler was available back in 2004, then i believe that my choice would have been different. Honest answer. My G500 is great and strong as a tank and will last forever, but it wastes fuel like there's no tomorrow and it is expensive as hell to repair (parts are prohibitively expensive).

If i were in the market right now, then it will come down to 3 choices: 2009 FJ Cruiser w/ Upgrade Package 2, 2009 4runner Trail Edition, and 2009 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon. These are reasonable rigs that i would be honored to own.

Quality definitely favors Toyota. But that does not mean that other companies can't built an adequate product. For example, FJ Cruiser has a bad problem with it's front fender bulging and cracking...even on 2008 models and on models that are mall crawlers! You don't hear this with the Wrangler. It all depends on what you look at and what you care most about. This is why i try to keep an open mind and look at all the vehicles on the market. It makes for interesting debate with myself.

 

[SonRunner]

The 4Runner has a huge advantage over the FJ Cruiser and Rubicon in terms of space. It simply can hold more, comfortably. I cross shopped the three and the 4Runner was just the best overall package for someone like me who has a kid. Not to mention the gas mileage is better, and the truck is quieter. No surprise it also costs the most.

Frankly, I think the reliability point is somewhat moot. All auto manufacturers seems to have made a lot of progress there.

 

[Ron Helmuth]

this is why you are the Thai master

I will accept your challenge and go check them out underneath Thai. But it is the side impact crash results I am most interested in.

I can and do appreciate the rationality of your arguing- me you can see I go all over the place in a frenetic cacophony of thoughts and opinions.

I yield to your superior command of the facts involved. I was up too late and the logic is not and was not there on my part.

Nonetheless the next time I see you pushing a Wrangler over a Yota why I oughta come up with a new emoticon smilie face

"traitor" yeah that is it.... :>}

I just can not envision too many of us on this forum have now owned a newer Heep and want to brag about how wonderful they truly are nowdays-I think you said your brother in law has one or something.

You have to understand how selective listening and editing of the verbal message occurs internally. Is your bro in law gonna really tell you every single little thing that goes wrong with his new Heep that is not even yet paid for?

I think not.... and please do not be letting your small child ride with him is one of the many things I am saying....

thanks for not taking this personally and I do not as well sir.

 

[Thai]

Re: this is why you are the Thai master

I will accept your challenge and go check them out underneath Thai.

Nonetheless the next time I see you pushing a Wrangler over a Yota why I oughta come up with a new emoticon smilie face

"traitor" yeah that is it.... :>}

You have to understand how selective listening and editing of the verbal message occurs internally. Is your bro in law gonna really tell you every single little thing that goes wrong with his new Heep that is not even yet paid for?

Traitor? Nah, "reformer."

If you do check it out, then please come back to this thread and post your thoughts. I would really appreciate your views on it.

Actually, it's my brother that owns an '03 Rubicon and '08 FJ w/ all-terrain pkg. He is pretty honest with me about his Jeep issues. There has not been many. The worst one so far is the fuel pump that went bad after warranty expired. His rear locker did go out, but it was covered under powertrain warranty. It has been surprisingly reliable...i think that he has over 60k miles on it. And his Jeep has been paid off for a while now. The FJ is still on loan.