ABS/Tundra brake upgrade

[Myrunr2010]

I was reading SS's description of their brake upgrade this morning, and they state that if you put 231s on and don't have any issues with your master, then you will screw up your ABS and cause it to not function properly, so you should go with the 199s.

My question is, has this happened to anyone?

Their description:

"Why we don’t offer 231 in Kits 1 and 4. For legal reasons. If you booster is working correctly and you install Factory Toyota Pads in a 231mm Caliper and engage a hard stop, your front tires will lock up and slide. Your rear tires will not. This is because the ABS computer is calibrated to a completely different caliper with different coverage. It is actually absurd to think you can just change parts around and not effect a computer controlled brake system. If you want 231mm Calipers we do offer 231mm in the 6.0 kit where you source your own calipers. We provide everything else all Factory Toyota, but you alone make the decision to install the 231mm and the responsibility for that decision is all yours."

 

[LittleCaesar]

Interesting, but no, all is well here. If you need to, pull the ABS fuse.

 

[T4R2014]

Major credit to Sonoran for actually going out and testing this. I'd like to know what year vehicle this was tested on and what their comparison was.

 

[Skibber]

Major credit to Sonoran for actually going out and testing this. I'd like to know what year vehicle this was tested on and what their comparison was.

Looks like the 2001 was their test for the 231mm. Here's where the details came from. Wonder if there is a way to calibrate the system to the 231's?

 

[JayRolla]

This is true. My rig does this. If im partially braking and hit a bump it also does the ABS lockup. I never had the issue before 231's. I just have learned to drive with it.

 

[Myrunr2010]

This is true. My rig does this. If im partially braking and hit a bump it also does the ABS lockup. I never had the issue before 231's. I just have learned to drive with it.

By ABS lockup, are you saying that the wheels lockup (like a pre ABS car would) or are you saying that the ABS kicks in and pulses your brake pedal?

 

[JayRolla]

It does both. In super hard braking the front locks up. On light braking hitting a bump abs kicks in and car slides. Very dangerous and my wife almost rear ended someone on dry pavement. It never did any of this on stock calipers.

 

[Myrunr2010]

Can anyone with 199's confirm that it does not do this with theirs?

 

[nc-grayson]

i have 231's on my 2000. Maybe I just drive like an old man, but I haven't noticed any difference in the abs since the addition of 231s. I've mashed the pedal a few times and only felt the abs engage once in memory.

My moms, completely oblivious to new upgraded brakes, was driving my truck home from western NC to eastern NC right after Hurricane Matthew. Late night, driving back roads, alone. She rounded a corner going 45, and immediately in her path was a downed tree and power lines. I guess at the hour in the middle of the night she went through there, nobody had been there yet and she was the first upon the damage. Long story short, she told me she stood on the pedal, hit a patch of debris in front of the tree, causing the abs to pulse, while still slowing her, and slid into the downed tree at a much slower pace.

She said the brakes did their job and probably saved her life.

 

[atalarico]

Very interesting! I've been looking at doing the 199mm upgrade anyway because I'm cheap and don't want to get new wheels or modify my existing split spoke ones.

The more interesting part though is that they're describing something that happens to me and I don't have the TBU (unless someone was awesome and ethere'd me and then installed the TBU for me!). If I'm braking and hit a bump, more often than not, the ABS will start to pulse. In fact my ABS is pretty active in that it goes off quite a bit, but it doesn't really lock-up hardcore on me, just pulses.

I haven't been driving it a ton since I've replaced the inner/outer tie rods and LBJs, and those definitely needed to be done. I'm wondering if there was some extra shimmy going on from bumps that freaked out the ABS, but then again I don't know that this symptom is gone either.

Thanks for posting this!

 

[T4R2014]

Looks like the 2001 was their test for the 231mm. Here's where the details came from. Wonder if there is a way to calibrate the system to the 231's?

Great read. This may explain why my low mile 4Runner(absolutely stock and never changing) stops better than it's expected to, while my high mile (with 199's) one stops like pudding.

 

[gamefreakgc]

i have 231's on my 2000. Maybe I just drive like an old man, but I haven't noticed any difference in the abs since the addition of 231s. I've mashed the pedal a few times and only felt the abs engage once in memory.

Same. Only time I've had ABS turn on is because my stupid tires hydroplaned, twice. The PO ruined them by not changing out the suspension, probably only had about 25k miles.

 

[T4R2014]

I mean, Sonoran Steel are the ones who actually went out to test the braking setups and come to a logical conclusion. Personal experiences are just that, personal experiences.

 

[Dephcon]

I had the ABS come on more often before i did the 231 conversion. Lots of hills and bumpy roads where i live. The times the ABS kicks in is generally moderate braking and then hitting a bump. Feels like the truck lets loose a bit (slipping on ice), but never put me in a situation that would cause an accident, but i do drive like an old man now days.

 

[mckennar]

Very interesting! I've been looking at doing the 199mm upgrade anyway because I'm cheap and don't want to get new wheels or modify my existing split spoke ones.

I know this isn't your point, but I ran a pair of $90 (shipped) 1" BORA spacers for a while to clear the 231mm calipers with my stock 16" '98 limited split 3 spoke wheels. These also helped reduce rub from running 285/75/16's.

 

[Skibber]

I had a quick look at DI-224 & DI-343 in the manual. Without diggin' too much into the details I'd guess that the 231's generate different pressure (higher/lower?) in the system than the stock or 199 calipers and force the lock up....Or that the pressure that is applied when the ABS activates makes the 231's grab before the others due to the larger surface area.

Would need to study DTC's C1223/43, C1246/46, C1251/51, and C1254/54 to see if you can mod something in the system (skid control ECU, ABS relay, master cyl sensor, hyd brake booster, etc) for the 231's. Just a thought.

SS probably doesn't offer the 231 calipers in their kit for liability...hence not offering it "for legal reasons".

Either way it seems to me that the 199mm caliper is the way to go. Good to know because I'm due for a brake job soon. Thanks for posting this [MENTION=112725]Myrunr2010[/MENTION]
[MENTION=71030]T4R2014[/MENTION] maybe the booster on the rig with the 199's is bad?

 

[Myrunr2010]

So no one with 199s has this issue?

 

[Myrunr2010]

Also, could you switch the master in from an 01/02 and that solve the problem? I'm sure there are reasons you couldn't, just wanted to ask the question.

 

[JRZEE2000TR4LTD]

So no one with 199s has this issue?

My 1999s work great. I went out on a back road and tested it again and it pulses like it should. I have never had any issues over bumps or any skidding and have had to uses the brakes hard a couple times (once in the rain) and they seemed to work as they should. I have ALL OEM 199 parts (rotors, calipers, and pads and shims)

 

[T4R2014]

My booster might be bad, but I'm going to replace the check valve first and see if there's a change.

When I was on the stock calipers, my ABS would trigger if I were to brake and go over a manhole cover our bump at the same time. With the bigger calipers, it hasn't really changed. It hasn't posed a threat to me either, but it is abnormal since my other 4Runner doesn't do it.