Advice On a New Quiet Car

[hulk311]

Ok so let me just start out by saying this a a long post now that I look at it.

I'm looking to purchase a new car that is quiet and is great on road trips. My wife and I take a lot of them, driving from the Detroit suburbs to Chicago and Toronto and upper MI often and we want a car that's comfortable and quiet on long rides. We currently use my wife's 2010 Mazda 3, which is a great car but it's actually loud on the highway.

Now, I was all set on getting the Buick Verano (see the turbo thread) but Thai brought to my attention that it DOES NOT contain HID lights. I have a problem with that because I refuse to pay almost $30k for a "loaded" Verano and not have it come with HID lights. I test drove the car and was sure it had HIDs because I saw the projectors and just figured that in this price range it would surely have them.


Wrong.



So anyways, I was pissed because I really liked everything else about it. I suppose I could just put in OEM Philip + bulbs with 55w ballasts in the projectors but 1) A car in that price range should have them stock 2) I feel like Buick does not know their customers well and thinks that we're all stupid and won't notice that the car has no HIDs.

Now, I guess I am a little overboard with the HIDs but I retrofitted Nissan Murano projectors, Philips + bulbs and 55w ballasts into my 1997 4Runner and to me that combo is 1000x better than my old halogen lights.



So now I am looking for a new car. Thai suggested that 2012 Acura TSX wagon. I looked at it and it looked pretty nice so I am considering it.

However, in my research I found the 2012 Jetta Sportwagen. http://www.vw.com/en/models/jettasportwagen/gallery.html

Here are some things that I like about it.

Pros
-diesel, gets 30mpg city and 40mpg highway
-its a turbodiesel, so with a chip you can get more mpg and hp
my brother had a 350 (or maybe it was a 450) Ford Diesel Truck and with just a chip he had over 1,000 lbs of torque and according to youtube videos of people with the same setup they ran in the high 12s in the 1/4 mile
-panaromic sunroof VW sportwagen TDI panoramic sunroof demonstration - YouTube
-the wagon looks like it could be very useful for camping, biking, kayaking with the roof rack
-according to the other guys on the TDI forums after a 10,000
"break in" period they are seeing 50+ mpg on the highway.
-we plan on having a kid in the near future and I feel like this would be a great vehicle for us

Cons
-according to consumer reports it gets 5/10 on the quietness scale (the acura tsx gets a 7/10). This bothers me a bit but I installed about 300+ pounds of second skin sound deading material in my 4runner and it is VERY quiet, I would probably rate it 8/10 or even 9/10. So I plan on doing this with the Jetta as well if I do buy it. Added bonus of the diesel engine, even if I add 300 or more pounds of sound deadning material to it it shouldn't hurt the mpg too much
- price, the loaded TDI with the DSG automatic transmission and panoramic sunroof is about $30k
-NO HIDs! At least I don't feel like I am getting tricked like I am with the Verano.

I have also looked into the Audi A4 Avant but:
1) price is WAY to high
2) if you go to their forums a lot of people are having trouble with "turbo lag" that in some instances is dangerous and when they went to the stealership to take a look at the problem they say it's normal. I guess it's normal when turning left in a busy intersection for you to press on the gas pedal and wait 1-2 seconds before your car actually turns.

Other cars I have considered:

Toyota Avalon
I really liked this car but my wife says it's way too big. And I agree, it's just way too long, although I really do like it. It's rated at 8/10 on the quietness scale.

Used Lexus LS 430
This car got 10/10 on the quietness scale! Used ones go for about $20k, only problem is that they all have 100,000+ miles on them in that price range, new ones go for about $80,000. So we aren't getting this one either.

I'd love to hear some feedback on this Jetta or perhaps any other vehicle that you guys think would be great for my situation.

 

[JohnsD90]

My sister just bought an '11 Jetta sedan with the TDI and proper 6 speed in it, she paid like $21k out the door with nav, and it is very quiet, like i was surprised with it as VW is trying to lower there standards to compete with the Corolla, but it is very quiet at 80mph and i have been in the car on multiple 200 mile trips and have driven it for an hour or so at a clip and it is a very refined car for the price. I can't imagine the sportwagen is any worse, the only thing i would do would be to soundproof the floor of the cargo area as that can sometimes make wagons a little louder than coupes. She does a mix of highway and town driving (no real city) and she does 42ish mpg overall (a little lower in the winter cause of fuel). 10k miles on it. I wouldnt get a tdi with an automatic, its just a waste.

BTW turbo lag if thats what is actually the problem wont make your car not go, it just goes at a little bit slower of a rate than if the car had no turbo at all. I have driven my fathers jetta when it had a large boost leak where i would lose all pressure the turbo had (just a sliced hose) and you can safely control the vehicle at low speeds and get yourself out of any situation that normal driving conditions can throw at you. But i do find it unacceptable that Audi knocks a major turbo lag problem off as normal, as they also feel that 1 quart of oil burned per 1k miles driven is acceptable as well on a 2 year old car with 20k miles on it.

 

[Thai]

What is your price range? I assume around $30k?

Since both of you drive, i suggest that memory seat be an important factor along with HIDs. The problem with the TSX is that it ONLY remembers the seat configuration, not the outside mirrors. The 2012 TSX, although better than my wife's 2009, is "sporty"...so, make sure that you like the ride before buying. The backseat is kinda tight on legroom. But, beyond that, the TSX is a freaking bargain IMO...good mileage, good discounts (all Acuras are always on sale!), great reliability, and great crash scores. And if you get the TECH pkg, then you have one of the best stereo system, bar none! (ELS stereo is better than the Mark Levinson in the old LS430...by a lot!)

How about the new Camry?? The 4-cyl now gets around 35 mpg...but no memory seat and no HIDs. The 6-cyl gets around 29-30 mpg on the highway i think...not too shabby for 270 hp.

How about Infinity G25?? Not much option for it...so, you're stuck with base model. Not sure about memory seat, but i think HIDs are standard. AGain, like TSX, it is a sport model...and not sure on road noise.

A used LS430 is excellent...but hard to find a good one! I used to search for one...great buy, but hard to find.

Have you look at Lincolns?? Lincoln names are so confusing, but the one that rivals the Lexus ES maybe a good buy.

As for anything VW or Audi...personally, i would stay far away from them. I am sure that they are great during the warranty period, but they suck afterwards. A million and one quality surveys can't be wrong, right?!!

 

[Thai]

Another one that you may want to look at is the Toyota Venza...a combo b/w a wagon and mini-SUV. It has 8" of ground clearance for snow with AWD system availability...yet low enough for easy entry and exit. I hear that it is very quiet...and since Toyota can't sell them, you may be able to get a good discount. It has HIDs as option, but no memory seat. A good practical compromise IMO with pretty good mileage and excellent crash scores. And i think that it looks good too.

 

[hulk311]

I looked at the Venza and with options added it's almost a $40k vehicle! The acura tsx is nice but reading the reviews on it it's underpowered and is $32k. I like the Jetta Sportwagen TDI but am not worried about reliability and heard it can cost thousands of dollars to fix the fuel pump, injectors, etc.

So this leads me back to the Buick Verano. With all the options it's about $29k, however the base model (which is actually very nicely equipped, including a remote starter) is $23.5k!

The extra $6k includes: heated mirrors, seats, steering wheel, sunroof, leather seats and BOSE sound system. Those features are nice but I really don't think all of those features are worth $6k! I have a sunroof in my 4Runner and sure it's nice but I only use it maybe twice a year.

Also, I already bought these on ebay WoofersEtc.com - CS 265 P Vanadium - Rainbow Profi Vanadium 6.5" 2-Way Component System brand new for half the price and I'm pretty sure they are slighty better than the BOSE system. As far as the heated seats go, my wife got me this for christmas: http://www.amazon.com/Wagan-IN9738-...V1D8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1327064418&sr=8-1 $15!!!

I think, for my needs, the buick verano is the best bang for the buck. Not to mention by next year, when the new turbo version comes out and this version most likely won't be a huge seller due to "only" 180hp and 31mpg on the highway, it should receive a nice huge price cut, perhaps $20k-$22k. As far as the HIDs go, since it already has projectors I think I can just throw in some HID bulbs in there. I don't feel as screwed on paying low $20k for it. Especially since almost any car you buy these days is going to start at $20k.

 

[Thai]

Why not just get Chevy Cruze LTZ for around $20k or less?? The only thing missing are the projector headlights. At the same time, you get much better mileage. Cruze is pretty quiet already and comfy.

How much does the Verano weigh??

 

[whiskywizard]

I feel like Buick does not know their customers well and thinks that we're all stupid and won't notice that the car has no HIDs.

Buick knows who its customers are, and has been trying to change that demographic, with less success than they'd like. Buick does NOT think their customers are stupid. They think you're 65 years old, retired, middle class, and have 2 grandchildren. And you're not interested in HIDs.

 

[Thai]

The acura tsx is nice but reading the reviews on it it's underpowered and is $32k.

Also, I already bought these on ebay WoofersEtc.com - CS 265 P Vanadium - Rainbow Profi Vanadium 6.5" 2-Way Component System brand new for half the price and I'm pretty sure they are slighty better than the BOSE system.

I think, for my needs, the buick verano is the best bang for the buck. Especially since almost any car you buy these days is going to start at $20k.

Verano curb weight is 3300 lbs. Acura TSX sedan 4-cyl AT weighs 3490 lbs. Given GM's recent automatic calibrations (aka very conservative), i would bet that you won't see any performance advantage b/w the two.

In fact, according to Insideline, the Verano weighs 3431 lbs. Link: 2012 Buick Verano Full Test

Acura TSX Sportwagon: 2011 Acura TSX Sport Wagon Full Test

Despite weighing close to 3600 lbs, the TSX wagon is faster (almost by 1 second!), dead heat in slalom and braking, and equally quiet!! Oh yeah, the TSX also got better fuel economy during the testing (by 4 MPGs!!)! :lookout:

The TSX sedan weighs less and should be slightly faster than the wagon. So, although the TSX may be overweight, but its performance surely does not lag behind Verano.

BTW, here is the long-term test of the SportWagon: 2011 Acura TSX Sport Wagon Archives - Long-Term Road Tests

A few Edmunds editors want to own one after living with it. Not a single problem with it. (My wife's TSX is just over 50,000 miles...and confirms that it is flawless thus far.)

As for aftermarket audio, i used to be in it a long time ago. It just does not pay IMO. You're going to let someone (or you) rip open your door panels and whatnot to install the equipments. Even if you don't break anything, you're just asking for rattles and creaks!! In addition, no matter how good the equipment is, you going to have to invest in a good DSP unit...and a good DSP unit like JBL MS-8 will run you around $800. Link: JBL MS-8 (Remember, it is not the wattage that counts, it is how you use the wattage!) I would just buy the JBL MS8 unit and use it with your stock speakers. DSP is the key to a good CAR audio system. Wattage and speaker quality takes a back seat IMO.

 

[Quentin]

I've read some rumblings about wind noise from the 7th gen Camry. You'd have to test drive it to see how it ranks on your scale, though. I was impressed with the interior of the SE that I saw at the dealer. The 200hp Camry Hybrid puts up some very impressive performance and economy numbers. You should be getting right at 40mpg in most driving cycles.

The Avalon really is the ultimate roadtrip sedan for people spending around $30k. It will do 30mpg on roadtrips and it insanely comfortable. I'm nearly convinced that the back seats are more comfortable than my sofas in my living room. It is big, but I think a backup camera is standard so that makes it so much easier to get around in a parking lot. The only thing about the Avalon is that it will be redesigned for the 2013 model year. The new one will be out in the fall and is apparently very, very impressive and will get the Camry hybrid drivetrain. High 30mpgs, 200hp, and a dead silent ride... that could be your winner.

I'd recommend the CT200h, but it does have that hybrid whine when you push the 1.8L hybrid drivetrain. Otherwise, it is a very quiet, solid ride. It gets pricy when you start ticking navigation and LED headlight options.

 

[Quentin]

I got some seat time in a Verano yesterday.

Likes:
- Looks much better in person and less Cruze-with-a-facelift
- Seats were reasonably comfortable, didn't sit in the back, though

Dislikes:
- Hood vents are tacky
- IP button layout is very unintuitive, just like the Enclave I had as a rental. Hated it after 1000 miles in that.
- "Power" seats are forward and back but recline is still manual. WTF?

I'd have a hard time paying $30k for this when a Cruze, similarly equipped, can be had a lot cheaper.

 

[Thai]

I got some seat time in a Verano yesterday.

Likes:
- Looks much better in person and less Cruze-with-a-facelift
- Seats were reasonably comfortable, didn't sit in the back, though

Dislikes:
- Hood vents are tacky
- IP button layout is very unintuitive, just like the Enclave I had as a rental. Hated it after 1000 miles in that.
- "Power" seats are forward and back but recline is still manual. WTF?

I'd have a hard time paying $30k for this when a Cruze, similarly equipped, can be had a lot cheaper.

Yup, it is ridiculous that a near $30k car still has manual seats AND no homelink!! Homelink can apparently be installed by dealer for around $300-400! WTF?! Sorry, like Buick Regal GS, Buick is aiming too high in pricing for a company that is trailing the other luxury brands! It needs to be more like Acura pricing if it wants a bigger foothold. I am sure that you can get steep discounts after a few months.

 

[Thai]

To be honest, i like the 2013 Buick Encore...it may be my next car! I have a thing nowadays for crossovers. My only concern so far with the limited info on the Encore is the small Cruze 1.4L turbo engine and may not have AWD...but hey, if Buick can make it OK in acceleration with AWD, then i am all for it!

 

[Thai]

How about the new Ford Fusion (2013)?? Link: The 2013 Ford Fusion | View Full Gallery of Photos | Ford.com

It comes with AWD and torque vectoring differential (via brake-action)...2.0L Ecoboost...and tons of safety features!

 

[Thai]

I had a chance to stop by Buick today. Verano is a pretty good car. A Leather pkg Verano (top model) without NAVI and sunroof is about $26.5k. Not bad price. Of course, this is MSRP. Interior is roomier than i thought...plenty of rear legroom with the front seat adjusted to my height. (Rear legroom is actually better than my wife's TSX.) But, the rear seat is kinda narrow...so, 2 across is max. Materials were pretty good, probably a smidgen below the TSX's. The ride is better than TSX...and quieter. I like it...i like it a lot in fact! The only major downfalls are the manual seat controls, no rear vents, no HIDs, and no Homelink. Salesman said that the Homelink can be installed at dealership.

On the side note, the BOSE system sounded clear, but bass is lacking...badly! Even with bass turned all the way up, i could not "feel" it from the front seats. But, if you sit in the rear, you can feel it. It sounded clearer than my Prius, but bass is much worst. So, overall, a decent system.

Lastly, i found out today that the TSX is off my list for future cars. I setup my wife's HandsFree system in the TSX...and wow, it sucks so bad! Now, i know why we never used it when she first got it...absolutely useless!!!!! My Prius (and Sienna's) BT phone is so much better! And for me, BT is very important because i take phone calls all the time in my car.

 

[Quentin]

I've read some rumblings about wind noise from the 7th gen Camry. You'd have to test drive it to see how it ranks on your scale, though. I was impressed with the interior of the SE that I saw at the dealer. The 200hp Camry Hybrid puts up some very impressive performance and economy numbers. You should be getting right at 40mpg in most driving cycles.

The Avalon really is the ultimate roadtrip sedan for people spending around $30k. It will do 30mpg on roadtrips and it insanely comfortable. I'm nearly convinced that the back seats are more comfortable than my sofas in my living room. It is big, but I think a backup camera is standard so that makes it so much easier to get around in a parking lot. The only thing about the Avalon is that it will be redesigned for the 2013 model year. The new one will be out in the fall and is apparently very, very impressive and will get the Camry hybrid drivetrain. High 30mpgs, 200hp, and a dead silent ride... that could be your winner.

I'd recommend the CT200h, but it does have that hybrid whine when you push the 1.8L hybrid drivetrain. Otherwise, it is a very quiet, solid ride. It gets pricy when you start ticking navigation and LED headlight options.

Test drove the Camry hybrid last night. Toyota hit the ball out of the park with the 2.5L AR hybrid drivetrain. It is very quick, very quiet, not buzzy in any way, and quite responsive. The planetary gear CVT doesn't give the rubber band feel, but rather smoothly moving the engine to the peak hp engine speed. The chassis is quiet, well damped, and feels considerably more substantial feeling than the previous gen. It pushes pretty quickly when driven hard into a turn, but that is to be expected, I think.

I didn't like the lack of a large passthrough from the trunk/no folding rear seats. The trunk is still pretty big and well shaped, but it is just cut off from the back seat area, which limits practicality. If they made a Camry wagon, I wouldn't think twice about buying one for our baby hauler. That said, we're going with the Prius v because we really want the cargo space for strollers and all that other stuff that goes with kids. The v is noticeably more buzzy when accelerating uphill than the Camry hybrid, but the v fits our needs better.

 

[mtbnole]

FWIW, I have a 2004 acura TSX, and enen though i am looking to get out of it in the next year for something like an S4, it has been a great car for over 100K miles.
The thing that impresses my most is that the interior looks like it could be installed in a new car today and still impress. For an 8 year old car, that says a lot. It's technically a honda, so there are no issues to speak of, and the 2.4 is a good engine, just a little underpowered with 4 people and a full trunk.

I've heard terrible things about the new Jettas, and how they dropped their quality standards in order to reach the bargain prices. The new Passat however is highly rated, and i think got motor trend car of the year. Why not look at one of those; much larger, with a big backseat, and longer wheelbase for a more comfortable highway ride. You can get a TDI for under 30K i believe.

 

[Flyer]

The Camry is a quiet car. Subarus are not. The Venza is ridiculously overpriced.

 

[Thai]

The Camry is a quiet car. Subarus are not. The Venza is ridiculously overpriced.

Drive for an Outback and I promise you that it is as quiet as a Camry!

 

[Flyer]

Thai, the new ones may be. I sure hope so. I have a 2006 Forester and my buddy has a 2007 Outback...both loud cars, though my Forester catches more wind and is louder. I don't think it has much sound-deadening material in it either. My GF's 2004 Camry...very quiet. We both have Michelin Primacy tires.

 

[Thai]

Oh yeah, it is much quieter than the older models. It is very comfy on the road.