After 4 years on 2"/2.5" 5100 and OME, I want more....

[Endlessblockades]

....forgiving squish!!!!! After a recent 10 days split between King of the Hammers and other Mojave BLM activities, I'm no longer willing to tolerate the harshness that I have been experiencing in the name of 'Value'. As a multi-decade mountain biker, I want something more like the Fox (and RS and Ohlins and....) suspension on my bikes for my T4R. I don't need to control the HS and LS compression and rebound with dials, but I want to drive faster and deal with small sharp edge hits and deeper compressions better. I would also like to stay at or under 3". Any current intel? I have read the suspension threads here for years. Not looking for the King level stuff that requires rebuilds and downtime if at all possible. I will do UCAs if needed. When I spoke to the Bilstein folks at KOH they would only talk about the 6112 and did not seem to consider the 5100s worth discussing. I did get the 'Race' RCD version of the 5100s back then. I have the EXTD HD axles and durobumps. TY

File this under annoying/redundant....

 

[2TH4IST]

Hate to say it, but I don't think you will find what your looking for unless you go with the likes of radflo/king/etc to get the plushness your seeking. It is also dependent on how much extra weight your 4runner has along with how much strengthening of the stock 4runner components you want to do too. Going fast off road depends how deep your pockets are or if you want to sell a kidney.

I know for the rear, lc80 shocks plus springs of your choice ride really nice, as I rolled with that for a few years. I ran billies up front and they sucked no matter what I did. I've changed things over and over until I realized I've spent the same $ on all that stuff as a full set of nice high end coilovers/rear shocks. Outboarding the rear shocks is nice too.

 

[spartacus]

....forgiving squish!!!!! After a recent 10 days split between King of the Hammers and other Mojave BLM activities, I'm no longer willing to tolerate the harshness that I have been experiencing in the name of 'Value'. As a multi-decade mountain biker, I want something more like the Fox (and RS and Ohlins and....) suspension on my bikes for my T4R. I don't need to control the HS and LS compression and rebound with dials, but I want to drive faster and deal with small sharp edge hits and deeper compressions better. I would also like to stay at or under 3". Any current intel? I have read the suspension threads here for years. Not looking for the King level stuff that requires rebuilds and downtime if at all possible. I will do UCAs if needed. When I spoke to the Bilstein folks at KOH they would only talk about the 6112 and did not seem to consider the 5100s worth discussing. I did get the 'Race' RCD version of the 5100s back then. I have the EXTD HD axles and durobumps. TY

File this under annoying/redundant....

I have no experience but I was reading up on Foam Cell Pro 2" Lift Kit Suited For 1996-2002 Toyota 4Runner.

 

[spartacus]

Foam Cell Pro 2" Lift Kit Suited For 1996-2002 Toyota 4Runner

Ironman 4X4 Foam Cell Pro Kit

 

[Mendoncyclesmith]

Funny timing.

I've got an 8 year old, OME, 2" lift in a box, $800 suspension.

With all the weight I've added, (bumpers f+r, RIGD UltraSwing, full length Sherpa rack, rooftop tent etc) I found last summer, fully loaded to head home from a week vacation, that I was near bottoming out on the little end of the trip wheeling I did.

Been chatting with ARB about spring rates, as they offered the kit I bought in "normal" and "firm" with the firm recommended only for vehicles with added weight on em.

I just wanted to know what springs were in the firm package, so I could update the rate.

I find myself more confused by the answer, which is, "they're the same spring rate, just longer coils".

I'm also heavily into mountain bike suspension, so I sort of grasp longer coils, greater time to ramp up, increase rate, etc. But I guess I don't want to risk adding more height when one of my goals is to drop it down. I did some dumb stuff, learned my lesson, and am trying to be smarter now.

Funny, a buddy today was telling me about his friends "Chris King" suspension update on his Land Rover, and I was pretty sure BIKE, Chris King never did anything for vehicles, and then I see King mentioned here, ooohhhhhhh....

So, just curious, did you go with the firm kit? I might be interested in your used springs as a try out thing, if they struck you as too firm.

Or are you hoping to solve it all, solely, via more advanced damping systems?

 

[Endlessblockades]

Funny timing.

I've got an 8 year old, OME, 2" lift in a box, $800 suspension.

With all the weight I've added, (bumpers f+r, RIGD UltraSwing, full length Sherpa rack, rooftop tent etc) I found last summer, fully loaded to head home from a week vacation, that I was near bottoming out on the little end of the trip wheeling I did.

Been chatting with ARB about spring rates, as they offered the kit I bought in "normal" and "firm" with the firm recommended only for vehicles with added weight on em.

I just wanted to know what springs were in the firm package, so I could update the rate.

I find myself more confused by the answer, which is, "they're the same spring rate, just longer coils".

I'm also heavily into mountain bike suspension, so I sort of grasp longer coils, greater time to ramp up, increase rate, etc. But I guess I don't want to risk adding more height when one of my goals is to drop it down. I did some dumb stuff, learned my lesson, and am trying to be smarter now.

Funny, a buddy today was telling me about his friends "Chris King" suspension update on his Land Rover, and I was pretty sure BIKE, Chris King never did anything for vehicles, and then I see King mentioned here, ooohhhhhhh....

So, just curious, did you go with the firm kit? I might be interested in your used springs as a try out thing, if they struck you as too firm.

Or are you hoping to solve it all, solely, via more advanced damping systems?

I think your Land Rover buddy conflated Chris King and King Shocks LOL. I met Chris King in the mid 90s when he installed a Rasta headset in an old hardtail frame by the lights of his pickup truck in the pits at the Sea Otter. Dude is a legend. I was just throwing out the King (shocks) name as the higher-end realm I'm not necessarily looking to join. I don't think they even make shocks for 3rd Gens unless you are going LT. I did a Black Friday kit through Wheelers and got 5100s on the bottom perch with 881s and 906s (I think - been a minute).

Lookng for another option I don't know about like the Ironman that [MENTION=50279]spartacus[/MENTION] suggested above. I like green springs but didn't have a great experience when I ran DVO suspension on my DH bike....
I have plenty of other issues like finding a drawer/sleeping platform and maybe a transmission (not to mention Smog coming up), too. just putting it out there.

 

[Endlessblockades]

Foam Cell Pro 2" Lift Kit Suited For 1996-2002 Toyota 4Runner

Ironman 4X4 Foam Cell Pro Kit

Based on zero research, I wonder if companies like lockedoffroad and Ironman aren't just rebranding catalog suspension from Taiwan (which I'm OK with but I won't buy mainland china stuff). Bike companies do that, too.

 

[96RedRunner]

Ditch the OME springs they're known for harshness.

96Red Tundra 5100's LC spring front 5100 LC OE 8 wrap spring rear, SS1.2 3"F - 4"R lift kit.
I liked the setup for my use/location.

On the 01 2017 went OME 2019 I ditched the OME 4runner 3" lift kit for Tundra 6112's
LC 5160's OE 7.5 wrap spring rear.
I've played with 6112 setup 4-5 times different tophat spacer thickness and perch setting
for best ride to me with 2.75-3" lift.
6112's 86# tire wheel combo AOR plate bumper winch w/rope 70# over stock weight.
Rear carried 880# of Sakcrete against seat back between tubs 2 rows rearward squatted 1.5"+-
70-75 mph is nice ride still working for me.

Kings were a want couldn't justify the need, Hammers and Mojave a day's drive away oh hell yea I'd buy once cry once.

 

[GhostRing]

It's funny that you want modern bike-type suspension, but don't want the wonderful adjustable complexity that accompanies it!

I've been fairly happy with my Dobinsons IMS shocks f/r
Monotube design, so shock fade doesn't happen like immediately.
Probably not as squishy as you would want out of the box, but
they are also re-valvable, (I may look into that as I start adding armor.)

It's a bit of a jump, but I'm also interested in their MRR 3 ways
since they use more traditional bushings instead of constantly
rebuilding heims etc. and have a remote resi to really help
keep things happy when I starting gaining speed in the deserty stuff.

I do like the idea of adjusting things right then & there as opposed
to sending the shocks in to get re-tuned, but it does add $$

 

[Endlessblockades]

It's funny that you want modern bike-type suspension, but don't want the wonderful adjustable complexity that accompanies it!

I've been fairly happy with my Dobinsons IMS shocks f/r
Monotube design, so shock fade doesn't happen like immediately.
Probably not as squishy as you would want out of the box, but
they are also re-valvable, (I may look into that as I start adding armor.)

It's a bit of a jump, but I'm also interested in their MRR 3 ways
since they use more traditional bushings instead of constantly
rebuilding heims etc. and have a remote resi to really help
keep things happy when I starting gaining speed in the deserty stuff.

I do like the idea of adjusting things right then & there as opposed
to sending the shocks in to get re-tuned, but it does add $$

Well, I want it but I just don't want to pay for it! I also seem to end up running all my MTB suspension full Open and I'd be happy with a set of struts I could set and forget on the 4Ruunner, too. It's probably not realistic. I don't want to spend 5k and be adjusting stuff constantly not to mention have to get it serviced every XXX amount of hours/miles. I'll check out the Dobinsons. I know people are also liking the Radflos but that's another can of worms. I'm still trying to run cool and pass smog and maybe rebuild the AT also.... gotta just keep pushing I guess.

 

[2TH4IST]

I'd focus on fixing the issues you have now, worry about the suspension later. And during this time, you can save up $ to get the best you can afford and want.

I'm running radflos and love them! So smooth. I did have to have the rear re-valved once, tmk some one messed up when building my rear shocks and they fixed it no charge. Granted I'm also running them outboard as well. I'm still messing with rear springs.


But I don't do speed runs on trails. There is only so much more bracing (and weight I'm willing to add) I can do before I have to buy $$$$$$$ fabbed lower arms and LT, but I can not choke down that cost vs the gain.

 

[spartacus]

Based on zero research, I wonder if companies like lockedoffroad and Ironman aren't just rebranding catalog suspension from Taiwan (which I'm OK with but I won't buy mainland china stuff). Bike companies do that, too.

They are an Autralian company and claim "made in Australia".

 

[Endlessblockades]

I'd focus on fixing the issues you have now, worry about the suspension later. And during this time, you can save up $ to get the best you can afford and want.

I'm running radflos and love them! So smooth. I did have to have the rear re-valved once, tmk some one messed up when building my rear shocks and they fixed it no charge. Granted I'm also running them outboard as well. I'm still messing with rear springs.


But I don't do speed runs on trails. There is only so much more bracing (and weight I'm willing to add) I can do before I have to buy $$$$$$$ fabbed lower arms and LT, but I can not choke down that cost vs the gain.

Yes you are right about that. Those things will get done or there's no point thinking about suspension upgrades. That said, do you think it's worth going to the Radflo level if you don't outboard them?

 

[2TH4IST]

Absolutely. They are amazing and can be fine tuned to your liking. They are in fountain Valley too so if your in socal they are close. But when your ready, I'd give them a call and talk about what your looking to get out of your shocks. They are nice people.

Also, if you care to dive in, they are diy rebuildable and tunable, so you yourself can fine tune and rebuild them.

 

[JZiggy]

Been very happy with my Dobinsons IMS lift for what it’s worth.

I made a thread about it a few years ago with a lot of details.

 

[turbo8]

I had the same RCD 5100's you had from Wheeler's, that replaced some Fox\Icon 2.5" reservoir shocks. I never liked the 5100's and just recently put on 6112\5160 on. So far the 6112\5160 feel a lot better than the 5100's.

The 6112\5160 are a little bit worse the the Fox\Icon setup I had previously, but should require less maintenance, which I was ultimately after.

 

[Endlessblockades]

Thanks for that intel. I guess I'm looking for 'Better than 5100s' with less/no maintenance compared to higher end stuff.

 

[96RedRunner]

[MENTION=373697]Endlessblockades[/MENTION] way turbo8 stated his experience I like it.
Not having run high end stuff I was assuming/hoping 6112/5160 was a sweet spot so far it is @+-27k mi.
Haven't gotten any air yet though.

 

[Endlessblockades]

[MENTION=373697]Endlessblockades[/MENTION] way turbo8 stated his experience I like it.
Not having run high end stuff I was assuming/hoping 6112/5160 was a sweet spot so far it is @+-27k mi.
Haven't gotten any air yet though.

Thanks both. That sounds like the middle ground I'm hoping to find. Maybe by Black Friday I will have sorted my other issues.

Getting air (except for unintentionally) is not on the menu until I can secure my gear in a drawer system!

 

[96RedRunner]

Just to add, Limit straps & Tundra 6112's peas and carrots, haven't done them yet.

Runner on stands cam bolts loose strut in place swaybar disconnected there is enough down stoke to bind CV.
I checked for this with intent for S/B disconnects, S/B connected has yet to be a train wreck
though right situation could bite me. Something to check for yourself when time comes.