Alignment Experts Opinion?

[toyo]

Had my alignment done yesterday after I installed my Icon's up front. The last shop that did the alignment didn't do a very good job. Felt some wandering for sure. It feels perfect now with the Icon's and a good alignment. How about some opinions?

 

[KidVermicious]

IME, positive camber will lead to increased wear on the outside edges of the front tires. A slight touch of negative camber assists in cornering stability and helps the tires wear more evenly.

 

[Mike07SE]

The other shop probably just did a rush job on it and "did the toe & let it go" procedure on it. Your specs look really good, I would leave it at what it is. I've had this issue several times where I've dropped my truck off to an NTB and got it back and could tell that my camber was wrong (bow legged look) by sight, and caster not right by the twitchy highway feel.

I decided to do one better and get new LR UCA's and took it to a Merchant's. I was pretty explicit to the manager and tech what I had done with the UCA's and what I expected from the alignment. They pretty much botched that up too.

At this point I realized that nobody was going to take the time (even though I was willing to pay) to do what I wanted and would tell me I don't know what I'm doing or talking about. So, I just did it myself. I have a full alignment shop at work and did it myself there. The only reason I didn't do this to begin with is that it's a nearly 24 hour operation during the week, and on the weekend I play single dad to the kids so it's hard to get time to away to go to the shop an hour away.

 

[Bossman]

I am by no means an "alignment expert" but I did just have my alignment done and have the same print out sheet as you have posted.

I just put on new Michelin tires a few months back, and an alignment was recommended after putting a few miles on the new rubber.

Your numbers look very close to mine, especially for the toe and total toe.

My camber is just slightly negative (compared to your slightly positive) for the reasons mentioned by KidVermicious.

 

[Sungod]

Those number look excellent. I would be more than pleased with them. One thing that irritates me with many alignment techs is they fail to provide you the before specs. The reason many (some good, some bad) is they don't want you questioning the work that was done. They have a hard time justifying you a charge for an alignment when it was in spec from the start or even worse if they don't make any changes at all.

In any case, you numbers look solid. Any thing you feel is either in your head or not related to the alignment.

 

[chompster4runner]

Those numbers look identical to mine as I too have just recently done the alignment. Before I did the alignment I had major issue with wandering. I upgraded my tires from what was on there called El Eldorado? Never heard to a BF K/A's load C and that solve most of my issue. Alignment was icing on the cake LOL

 

[toyo]

Thanks for the input guys. So far I am happy with the way it tracks and rides. If the tires wear a little fast on the edges I'm not gonna fret about it. I'm waiting for these tires to wear out before I upgrade to better/bigger tires.

 

[gm350reratliff]

It looks good to me. Just a hair less camber would be ideal though. Usually, camber that is +/- 0.50° will cause a tire wear issue. These 4runners tend to ride on the outside of the tires when turning so you will see more wear there regardless. Just keep the tires rotated and you should be fine.

 

[toyo]

It looks good to me. Just a hair less camber would be ideal though. Usually, camber that is +/- 0.50° will cause a tire wear issue. These 4runners tend to ride on the outside of the tires when turning so you will see more wear there regardless. Just keep the tires rotated and you should be fine.

Thanks Ron.

 

[tattooedblade]

Numbers look great, when you get your new tires have them check the alignment again and then go for a slight negative camber.

 

[dadigab]

If your really concern about camber/ tire wear use sidewalk chalk rub on tread. do this in three to four patches on front tires. drive on flat level surface in straight line for 100 ft check tire wear chalk should wear off evenly across tread pattern. If it wears on outer edge to much positive camber, wears off on inner edge to much negative camber, wears out in middle to much air pressure wears out evenly on outer edges to little air pressure. repeat a couple times.

 

[Scott@Hightech]

Those number look excellent. I would be more than pleased with them. One thing that irritates me with many alignment techs is they fail to provide you the before specs. The reason many (some good, some bad) is they don't want you questioning the work that was done. They have a hard time justifying you a charge for an alignment when it was in spec from the start or even worse if they don't make any changes at all.

In any case, you numbers look solid. Any thing you feel is either in your head or not related to the alignment.

When Average consumers can afford the $20000+ in equipment it takes to do an alignment, I can see shops not charging as much. But the equipment has to be paid for and the whole entire setup process still takes time. Some shops will only charge for an alignment check if everything is good. But if adjustments have to be made, then the vehicle will get an alignment.

Thanks for the input guys. So far I am happy with the way it tracks and rides. If the tires wear a little fast on the edges I'm not gonna fret about it. I'm waiting for these tires to wear out before I upgrade to better/bigger tires.

This is the most important thing. if you feel confident in the truck and its handling and the vehicle doesn't pull and the steering wheel isn't off center then your good.

IME, positive camber will lead to increased wear on the outside edges of the front tires. A slight touch of negative camber assists in cornering stability and helps the tires wear more evenly.

Camber will wear tires whether its positive or negative. Typically not until it gets above/below +.75/-.75. Even then it all depends on the Toe settings. Im running -3 deg. of camber in the rear of my bmw and I have no inner edge wear due to appropriate toe settings.

On most Toyotas, unless you have the SPC control arms you will likely never be able to obtain negative camber with out having low caster. I shoot for +4 deg of caster on lifted 4runners. with out UCA I can usually get them up to 2.5/3 deg of caster which is ok but not ideal. I keep camber around the +.1-.2 deg range. This alignment looks very good if there are not UCAs installed

 

[Sungod]

When Average consumers can afford the $20000+ in equipment it takes to do an alignment, I can see shops not charging as much. But the equipment has to be paid for and the whole entire setup process still takes time. Some shops will only charge for an alignment check if everything is good. But if adjustments have to be made, then the vehicle will get an alignment.

It isn't a question of costs, it is a question of integrity. If you don't show the before settings, you look like you are hiding something. There is nothing wrong with charging for a check. I think most people would be comfortable with that, but if you are only charging when you actually turn a wrench then you need to show both. I realize that it is possible to be within spec and still get tire wear, but that is your responsibility as an honest technician to explain that to a customer and let them decide what is best.

 

[toyo]

It isn't a question of costs, it is a question of integrity. If you don't show the before settings, you look like you are hiding something. There is nothing wrong with charging for a check. I think most people would be comfortable with that, but if you are only charging when you actually turn a wrench then you need to show both. I realize that it is possible to be within spec and still get tire wear, but that is your responsibility as an honest technician to explain that to a customer and let them decide what is best.

I agree with your thoughts on some points. Some alignment machines will automatically save and print the before alignment. Some do not do it automatically.

One thing we need to remember being a gear head. I would bet money that 95 to 98% of the customers that have alignments done do not give a rats ass about the specs. I find it amazing how many friends, customers etc will say they need an alignment because the steering wheels is shaking or a vibration in the car. It's like nobody knows what a tire balance is anymore.

 

[Sungod]

I agree with your thoughts on some points. Some alignment machines will automatically save and print the before alignment. Some do not do it automatically.

One thing we need to remember being a gear head. I would bet money that 95 to 98% of the customers that have alignments done do not give a rats ass about the specs. I find it amazing how many friends, customers etc will say they need an alignment because the steering wheels is shaking or a vibration in the car. It's like nobody knows what a tire balance is anymore.

Every Hunter machine I have seen going back to the C111 has the ability to capture before and after settings, but you also can do "print screen" which is what we are seeing here. Techs choose what they want to show the customer.

I would say that the vast majority do not care about the specs, but you run into plenty that although they do not understand are insistent about the specs. Those are usually the same ones that think the vibration is caused by improper alignment. Back when I used to work in the business the first question I would always ask when someone walked in the door asking for an alignment was "Why?" The vast majority was there for a vibration problem.

My favorite customer that I had was in for an alignment check. I showed him on the screen and explained the specs and that the red areas were out and would turn green when properly aligned. He shook his head and agreed. He then went to the back of the rack. Closed one eye and squinted looking down the side of his car, then did the same thing on the other side. Looked at me and said "It looks ok, take it down". I just laughed and pulled it down. There are some people that there is just no point in trying to reason with.

 

[toyo]

Every Hunter machine I have seen going back to the C111 has the ability to capture before and after settings, but you also can do "print screen" which is what we are seeing here. Techs choose what they want to show the customer.

I would say that the vast majority do not care about the specs, but you run into plenty that although they do not understand are insistent about the specs. Those are usually the same ones that think the vibration is caused by improper alignment. Back when I used to work in the business the first question I would always ask when someone walked in the door asking for an alignment was "Why?" The vast majority was there for a vibration problem.

My favorite customer that I had was in for an alignment check. I showed him on the screen and explained the specs and that the red areas were out and would turn green when properly aligned. He shook his head and agreed. He then went to the back of the rack. Closed one eye and squinted looking down the side of his car, then did the same thing on the other side. Looked at me and said "It looks ok, take it down". I just laughed and pulled it down. There are some people that there is just no point in trying to reason with.

That is some funny stuff!