Alignment issue: 3" front lift and no caster

[white_n_slow]

I have a 3" front lift (TRD Tundra/Bilstein combo on the 3rd notch). My alignment shop told me they could not get any caster dialed in. My caster sits at 0* and the truck darts around on the highway. Ideally I would like to have about +4* caster.

Was anybody else able to get the alignment within spec with a 3" front lift and stock UCA's? Do you just turn the rear cams all the way down and the front cams all the way up?

I am not willing to spend $500 on aftermarket upper control arms.

Any input would be appreciated!

 

[IBallEngineer]

I have a 3" front lift (TRD Tundra/Bilstein combo on the 3rd notch). My alignment shop told me they could not get any caster dialed in. My caster sits at 0* and the truck darts around on the highway. Ideally I would like to have about +4* caster.

Was anybody else able to get the alignment within spec with a 3" front lift and stock UCA's? Do you just turn the rear cams all the way down and the front cams all the way up?

I am not willing to spend $500 on aftermarket upper control arms.

Any input would be appreciated!

In essence yes, rear in, front out would be max Caster. The only reason the shop could have for not being able to do so is if one of more is already maxed. then any movement of one side only would affect Camber as well as Caster.
Personally I am of the opinion MOST alignment shops don't know what they are doing. And I have very good reasons to feel that way.

 

[Millerad1651]

I'm not sure what spec is, and to be honest, much about alignment in general...I've got some learning to do.
Here is my print out from the shop. I've got 3" up front with TRD coils and stock billies, with a top plate spacer.
It drives straight as an arrow, and I haven't had any irregular tire wear problems...

 

[MStudt]

I have a 3" Toytec lift on mine and had no issues with an alignment. I'm wondering if maybe they couldn't get the bolts to move, and they just told you they could do anything with it.

 

[steezemcqueen]

You should be able to get more than 0 caster but the only way to get it in perfect spec or close to the 4* of caster is going to be with a set of UCA's.

I currently have about 1.5 degrees of caster with my LR UCA's set for the stock position.

 

[IBallEngineer]

I'm not sure what spec is, and to be honest, much about alignment in general...I've got some learning to do.
Here is my print out from the shop. I've got 3" up front with TRD coils and stock billies, with a top plate spacer.
It drives straight as an arrow, and I haven't had any irregular tire wear problems...

If you look at the report, to the inside of the actual reading is the minimum spec, and to the outside is the maximum spec. In the case of this report, you'll notice the Caster numbers are lighter, because the reading is out of spec, just barely though. The minimum Caster spec is 1.7 and you have 1.5 and 1.6 respectively. Ordinarily I would say that is no problem, and since you said your truck drives straight, it is NOT a problem. Still the max spec is 3.2 and I would prefer to see it closer to that, but that's just my OCD.

 

[J. B.]

Those alignment measurements are pretty good for stock control arms and 3" lift.

I think your only option to increase the caster is for aftermarket ucas.

 

[cdrewferd]

Where are you getting it aligned? I talked to the guys at the Firestone by Flatirons Mall and they really knew what they were doing with my lifted 4Runner. They did a great job on it, and didn't just go to the computer spec, they went to my spec.

 

[snivilous]

So caster just moves the wheel front/back a bit, how does this affect anything significantly? It seems like all it's doing is changing your wheelbase, which relative to the wheelbase is a fraction of a percent, how does that have a noticeable affect how the truck handles? Or does it do something else I'm unaware of? Obviously since it's adjustable it's important...

 

[white_n_slow]

So caster just moves the wheel front/back a bit, how does this affect anything significantly? It seems like all it's doing is changing your wheelbase, which relative to the wheelbase is a fraction of a percent, how does that have a noticeable affect how the truck handles? Or does it do something else I'm unaware of? Obviously since it's adjustable it's important...

Not entirely correct.

Caster refers to the angle between the steering axis and the ground. Or another way to look at it, if you draw an imaginary line between the upper ball joint and the lower ball joint, the angle at which that line intersects with the ground when viewed from the side is your caster measurement. 90* to the ground would be zero caster. If you were to move the upper ball joint rearward (or the lower forward) that would create positive caster and vice versa. Caster *can* be used to make minor adjustments to wheelbase (move the lower pivot point forward and the front tire will also move forward), but I think the main purpose of adjust-ability is for the handling benefits.

Most cars are supposed to have some positive caster because it helps the steering remain straight when road surfaces are uneven. It also has the handling benefit of giving you effectively negative camber on the outside wheel when the tires are turned. You can see this effect in the merc picture.

Here, this should help:

 

[white_n_slow]

Where are you getting it aligned? I talked to the guys at the Firestone by Flatirons Mall and they really knew what they were doing with my lifted 4Runner. They did a great job on it, and didn't just go to the computer spec, they went to my spec.

I went to Lucky Tire and Auto on Federal/US36 because the guys in my neighborhood recommended them and they only charge $60 for a front end alignment. How much does that Firestone charge, I might give them a try.

:edit: So between Millerad and Steeze, general consensus is I should be able to get about +1.5* out of the stock UCA's with a 3" lift?

 

[UT Hack]

^Yes. That's what the alignment shop was able to get out of mine, they couldn't get it back to factory obviously but it's definitely better than 0*. Mine handles fine with 1.5, barely a noticeable change (in the 10k I've put on it now) from how it was before the lift.

 

[IBallEngineer]

Not entirely correct.

Caster refers to the angle between the steering axis and the ground. Or another way to look at it, if you draw an imaginary line between the upper ball joint and the lower ball joint, the angle at which that line intersects with the ground when viewed from the side is your caster measurement. 90* to the ground would be zero caster. If you were to move the upper ball joint rearward (or the lower forward) that would create positive caster and vice versa. Caster *can* be used to make minor adjustments to wheelbase (move the lower pivot point forward and the front tire will also move forward), but I think the main purpose of adjust-ability is for the handling benefits.

Most cars are supposed to have some positive caster because it helps the steering remain straight when road surfaces are uneven.

Caster is also what makes your steering want to return to center after you finish a turn, we take for granted allowing the wheel to spin back to center. Also, and to me this is MOST important, it is what keeps the car from wandering when you are at faster speeds. A car will tend to "drift" to the side with the "least" positive caster. It will "pull" to the side with the "most" positive CAMBER.
:driving: