Alignment/Power Steering Rack Question

[atalarico]

Hey all,

Just got my alignment done after replacing the LCA bushings. They said they couldn't get the steering wheel straight though because when the technician would go to adjust the outer tie-rod on one side, it would turn the other side too. They said the bushings in the steering rack are probably shot, and recommended a replacement. He said it'll likely get knocked out of alignment as soon as I hit a bump...

So, I'm wondering if this sounds like that's the case or not. I had the rack replaced in my 97 when I first got it because it was leaking pretty badly, and I remember it's a $7-900 job.

Is this just a matter of the wheel won't be straight (not a huge deal), technician missing something, or it really will mess up the entire alignment?

I've tacked inner and outer tie-rods before on my own, and it wasn't that hard. Just wondering if there's maybe something I can look into on my own.

Thanks!

 

[atalarico]

*bump*

Adding: It doesn't really pull in one direction or the other, but yeah, the steering wheel is definitely off-centered. I noticed what looked like impact wrench marks on the outer tie rod shafts indicating that the tech might have had a hard time getting them loose.

 

[Drunner97]

Probably your inner tie rods. I'd replace inners/outers first then take it back. The steering rack really has nothing to do with setting toe.

 

[atalarico]

Probably your inner tie rods. I'd replace inners/outers first then take it back. The steering rack really has nothing to do with setting toe.

That was my thought too so I asked. He said the outers were in great shape and tight. The writer was saying the tech was saying (lol) that the "bushings" inside the rack must be bad. I made sure he wasn't talking about the bushings that hold the rack in place either, and he wasn't. Then I asked about the ITRs, but they seemed convinced it was the rack.

I've done the ITRs and OTREs in my 3rd gen, so I can probably swing it in this one, but I might take it to my trusted shop I use for big stuff to give them the skinny.

Weird though, right?

 

[Drunner97]

That was my thought too so I asked. He said the outers were in great shape and tight. The writer was saying the tech was saying (lol) that the "bushings" inside the rack must be bad. I made sure he wasn't talking about the bushings that hold the rack in place either, and he wasn't. Then I asked about the ITRs, but they seemed convinced it was the rack.

I've done the ITRs and OTREs in my 3rd gen, so I can probably swing it in this one, but I might take it to my trusted shop I use for big stuff to give them the skinny.

Weird though, right?

They're easy enough to do. I think I spent about 30 mins per side last time I changed mine out. If there's enough play in the tie rods adjusting one side can throw the other side off because there's just enough movement that you can't be accurate. I'm sure he could have stabilized it enough to get your wheel straight. I'm slowly losing faith in alignment techs after my last failed alignment (tech couldn't figure out how to get me above 2* caster). Me and a buddy ended up doing it in the driveway and I got everything to the specs I wanted (3* caster and almost 0 camber) although my wheel was also still slightly crooked. I could have taken the time to fix that but I just needed it to drive straight for a wheeling trip.

 

[atalarico]

They're easy enough to do. I think I spent about 30 mins per side last time I changed mine out. If there's enough play in the tie rods adjusting one side can throw the other side off because there's just enough movement that you can't be accurate. I'm sure he could have stabilized it enough to get your wheel straight. I'm slowly losing faith in alignment techs after my last failed alignment (tech couldn't figure out how to get me above 2* caster). Me and a buddy ended up doing it in the driveway and I got everything to the specs I wanted (3* caster and almost 0 camber) although my wheel was also still slightly crooked. I could have taken the time to fix that but I just needed it to drive straight for a wheeling trip.

Yep, adding for my "special abilities" it'll take me about 1.5x longer, but that sounds about right to me. I also remember not to skimp on non-OEM parts for anything front-end related unless I want to be doing the job again in 15k miles (****in NAPA/555 LBJs in my 3rd gen).

I'm still on the fence about just spending $240 for both of the parts and an afternoon in the driveway if it's not actually my ITRs though. Then again if I take it to the shop, diagnosis ain't free (and that's understandable)...soooo yeah.

And I totally agree about alignment tech's. I had the lifetime Firestone one for my 3rd gen, and I definitely had to shop around different Firestones in my area. The one I settled on were kinda grumpy, but the techs did a decent enough job. I tried a new one that's closer to me, and the writers were super friendly and could tell I wrenched on my truck so showed me their factory manual diagrams and stuff, but the tech seemed like a bit of a buffoon. Sooo pick your poison I guess. I'll probably take the adept tech over nice writers.

All that being said, is it really just a matter of the wheel being centered, or is it going to affect wear on my tires?

 

[Drunner97]

Yep, adding for my "special abilities" it'll take me about 1.5x longer, but that sounds about right to me. I also remember not to skimp on non-OEM parts for anything front-end related unless I want to be doing the job again in 15k miles (****in NAPA/555 LBJs in my 3rd gen).

I'm still on the fence about just spending $240 for both of the parts and an afternoon in the driveway if it's not actually my ITRs though. Then again if I take it to the shop, diagnosis ain't free (and that's understandable)...soooo yeah.

And I totally agree about alignment tech's. I had the lifetime Firestone one for my 3rd gen, and I definitely had to shop around different Firestones in my area. The one I settled on were kinda grumpy, but the techs did a decent enough job. I tried a new one that's closer to me, and the writers were super friendly and could tell I wrenched on my truck so showed me their factory manual diagrams and stuff, but the tech seemed like a bit of a buffoon. Sooo pick your poison I guess. I'll probably take the adept tech over nice writers.

All that being said, is it really just a matter of the wheel being centered, or is it going to affect wear on my tires?

If it's driving straight you should be fine for awhile. I had to drive 60 miles home @ 65 mph (to keep up with traffic) on Saturday with my alignment completely fubar and fighting my steering wheel the entire time. When I got home I looked for any abnormal wear and both front tires seemed fine. I'm running some cheap ebay tie rods that came with an LCA package I picked up a couple years ago and they seem to be standing up to my abuse, but I'll likely go OEM after this summer.

 

[atalarico]

If it's driving straight you should be fine for awhile. I had to drive 60 miles home @ 65 mph (to keep up with traffic) on Saturday with my alignment completely fubar and fighting my steering wheel the entire time. When I got home I looked for any abnormal wear and both front tires seemed fine. I'm running some cheap ebay tie rods that came with an LCA package I picked up a couple years ago and they seem to be standing up to my abuse, but I'll likely go OEM after this summer.

Ehhhh I'm not positive about it driving straight, but it's straight enough. It felt really weird when I got it back but they only aired up my tires to 35psi, so when I put it back up to 40 it handled a lot better.

 

[dustxking]

Sorry to bump, but I am having the same exact issue, my steering wheel is off to the left by about 1-2 inches. Took it back in and they re adjusted the steering wheel multiple times (test drives as I'm watching right next to him in passenger seat). I got the same exact response, that the steering rack bushings are going out, could be the bushings inside the rack, my t4r only has 71500 miles on it and served every 5k from dealer.
He also said the outer and inner links look fine.
Now am i mistaken, there are no replacement bushings that hold the actual rack in place like a 3rd gen?

 

[atalarico]

Sorry to bump, but I am having the same exact issue, my steering wheel is off to the left by about 1-2 inches. Took it back in and they re adjusted the steering wheel multiple times (test drives as I'm watching right next to him in passenger seat). I got the same exact response, that the steering rack bushings are going out, could be the bushings inside the rack, my t4r only has 71500 miles on it and served every 5k from dealer.

He also said the outer and inner links look fine.

Now am i mistaken, there are no replacement bushings that hold the actual rack in place like a 3rd gen?

That sucks! I’m going to a different place today actually and going to see if they say the same thing. If they do, then I’m going to pony up and get the rack replaced sooner than later.

I was wondering about the bushing location too since I actually replaced the rack bushings on my 3rd gen myself and it really helped a lot. Anyone care to shed some light?

 

[Drunner97]

Sorry to bump, but I am having the same exact issue, my steering wheel is off to the left by about 1-2 inches. Took it back in and they re adjusted the steering wheel multiple times (test drives as I'm watching right next to him in passenger seat). I got the same exact response, that the steering rack bushings are going out, could be the bushings inside the rack, my t4r only has 71500 miles on it and served every 5k from dealer.
He also said the outer and inner links look fine.
Now am i mistaken, there are no replacement bushings that hold the actual rack in place like a 3rd gen?

I'd find another alignment shop. Your bushings shouldn't be worn out at 71k. I'd have to look, but my Tacoma buddy (2nd gen, should be the same as ours) replaced his rack bushings with something else that worked.

 

[atalarico]

I'd find another alignment shop. Your bushings shouldn't be worn out at 71k. I'd have to look, but my Tacoma buddy (2nd gen, should be the same as ours) replaced his rack bushings with something else that worked.

My runner is at 150k, so I'm guessing they're actually worn more compared to his at 71k. I've done a lot of poking around and it looks like these bushings are harder to access than the 3rd gen bushings, and pulling the whole rack is kind of the only way to replace them. Once it's pulled there's a lot of cutting and torching involved to get the old ones out and new ones pressed in. Is that right?

At that point, my steering fluid is already black which indicates the rack has other issues going on, so I might as well replace the whole thing, right? I've been draining and filling the fluid here and there to help clear it up a little, but still, kind of seems like the rack is probably toast anyway.

What do we think?

 

[Drunner97]

My runner is at 150k, so I'm guessing they're actually worn more compared to his at 71k. I've done a lot of poking around and it looks like these bushings are harder to access than the 3rd gen bushings, and pulling the whole rack is kind of the only way to replace them. Once it's pulled there's a lot of cutting and torching involved to get the old ones out and new ones pressed in. Is that right?

At that point, my steering fluid is already black which indicates the rack has other issues going on, so I might as well replace the whole thing, right? I've been draining and filling the fluid here and there to help clear it up a little, but still, kind of seems like the rack is probably toast anyway.

What do we think?

Correct, you have to pull the whole rack to replace the bushings. I was only half assed paying attention when my buddy did his bushings but he used some sort of pickle fork and a 4 lb sledge to pop the old bushings out, and then replaced them with energy bushings or something. It's a real pain in the ass to get the rack out since there isn't a whole lot of room to work.

Fluid itself I'd just do a flush and get clean fluid through everything.

 

[atalarico]

Correct, you have to pull the whole rack to replace the bushings. I was only half assed paying attention when my buddy did his bushings but he used some sort of pickle fork and a 4 lb sledge to pop the old bushings out, and then replaced them with energy bushings or something. It's a real pain in the ass to get the rack out since there isn't a whole lot of room to work.

Fluid itself I'd just do a flush and get clean fluid through everything.

Yeah, I think that's the best case scenario without rust issues. I've read some horror stories of people that have done it and said if they knew what a PITA it was going to be, they would have just replaced the damn rack. That's kind of where I'm leaning right now...but then you run into the "which rack do I get" dilemma and the price starts going up. Luckily CVJ is in Denver, and they do really solid reman'd OEM racks so maybe I'll look into sourcing it from them.

I've never pulled a rack before, but it's not my daily driver and I guess I could fumble my way through it without risking too much, right?

As for the fluid, my concern with doing a flush is if there's a bad seal or two then I'm just going to waste that fluid, etc. I've been able to lighten the color up with a 4 or 5 drain and fills on the little reservoir up top, but it's a tedious process.

 

[Drunner97]

Yeah, I think that's the best case scenario without rust issues. I've read some horror stories of people that have done it and said if they knew what a PITA it was going to be, they would have just replaced the damn rack. That's kind of where I'm leaning right now...but then you run into the "which rack do I get" dilemma and the price starts going up. Luckily CVJ is in Denver, and they do really solid reman'd OEM racks so maybe I'll look into sourcing it from them.

I've never pulled a rack before, but it's not my daily driver and I guess I could fumble my way through it without risking too much, right?

As for the fluid, my concern with doing a flush is if there's a bad seal or two then I'm just going to waste that fluid, etc. I've been able to lighten the color up with a 4 or 5 drain and fills on the little reservoir up top, but it's a tedious process.

Pulling the rack itself is just tedious. Getting the connections off and then figuring out how to finagle it through the limited space is the hard part. A good set of line wrenches will help prevent stripping anything. The fluid itself I think you'll be fine. It tends to get dark as it gets old so I doubt you've blown a seal or anything. You'd likely be leaking fluid from some place if that was the case. I expect I'll be looking at doing mine here pretty soon too, but fortunately it isn't a daily either.

 

[atalarico]

Pulling the rack itself is just tedious. Getting the connections off and then figuring out how to finagle it through the limited space is the hard part. A good set of line wrenches will help prevent stripping anything. The fluid itself I think you'll be fine. It tends to get dark as it gets old so I doubt you've blown a seal or anything. You'd likely be leaking fluid from some place if that was the case. I expect I'll be looking at doing mine here pretty soon too, but fortunately it isn't a daily either.

Oh, I love to swear a lot with tedious projects.

Good to know on the fluid probably just aging instead of leaking. I guess that makes more sense since it's never been low, just dark. My 3rd gen had a small seal leak and I remember seeing the rubber boots get a little dark because of it and having to top off the fluid maybe once a year.

I just have a hard time replacing a whole OEM rack because of a couple of bad bushings. I know cheap replacement racks are inferior, so is it better to have an older OEM rack with new bushings, or a new after-market!? Especially if off-roading is concerned...

 

[nevada]

did you ever go to a different alignment shop?

 

[atalarico]

did you ever got to a different alignment shop?

No, I couldn't make the appointment today because of a work obligation I forgot about. Whoops. Going to call and apologize and see if I can bring it by on Friday.

I kind of feel like they're going to say the same thing. The steering feels squirrelly as it is, so that's probably what it is, but maybe not!

 

[nevada]

No, I couldn't make the appointment today because of a work obligation I forgot about. Whoops. Going to call and apologize and see if I can bring it by on Friday.

I kind of feel like they're going to say the same thing. The steering feels squirrelly as it is, so that's probably what it is, but maybe not!

even if the bushings were bad, they should still be able to center the wheel. and if the bushings were THAT bad, they shouldn't have even attempted the alignment. im calling BS on their story..
need to get to a different shop.

 

[atalarico]

even if the bushings were bad, they should still be able to center the wheel. and if the bushings were THAT bad, they shouldn't have even attempted the alignment. im calling BS on their story..
need to get to a different shop.

I wonder if they just had a hard time breaking the tie-rods loose because of rust or something and just gave up and told me the stuff about the bushings because they couldn't get the wheel straight. I recall seeing some marks on the tie rod arms where they were probably working with some impact wrenches to break them loose. Hmmmm...maybe if I spray some PB Blaster on there Thursday night and maybe even heat them up and break them loose myself and put them back that might help.

I'd be super happy if I don't need a new rack or bushings.