Another 02 Tranny issue

[pat161]

We'll have to see how it all plays out over the next few days but as it is now my 02 4Runner w/ a tad over 100k sits disabled in front of my house. Quick background, its been running perfectly, never slipped or had any tranny issues at all. Drove home from VT yesterday, about 220 miles, with no problems, ran perfectly, parked it to unpack then about an hour later ran out to get a sandwich, about 7 miles away, again ran perfect, no issues of any kind. Get dinner, start truck, put in reverse, nothing, just revs, look to make sure I didn't hit neutral by mistake, no such luck. Tried all other gears, nothing, tried going back to Park and it ground just a little and had resistance but went in. Restarted tried again, same results, except I turned it off before going into P so it wouldn't grind, repeated process several times after looking at all connections and checking the fluid, all appear fine. Towed home, ate soggy dinner and went to bed. This morning I drained the tranny, fluid looks and smells brand new, dropped the pan and took a look from underneath. All is fine, so I cleaned the filter and put it back together, restarted and as expected all symptoms remain. So my next step is to tow it 100 miles to a friends house who just happens to be a mechanic and we will tear it apart and see if we can figure it out. I just find it strange that there were no symptoms at all and am hoping it will be something fairly simple as opposed to needing a complete rebuild. It feels like the linkage is moving when I use the shifter and the driveshaft is free, so its not stuck in park or anything, but other than that I have no idea what it could be. Once I find more I'll update the post and certainly if anyone has any insight feel free to add.

 

[Qyota]

I'm no transmission expert, but it sounds electronic to me. Mechanical stuff doesn't just "not work" without you knowing it's about to happen. Solenoid? Fuse?

I might be completely full of sh*t too, just throwing it out there. Sorry to hear of your dead runner!

 

[Brian32]

wow im sorry to hear that man thats a bummer..

are there alot of tranny promblems with the 02's? i have a 02 sport with 70,000

what are the symptoms of a tranny going bad? because when i start the car up in the morning to go to work... 1st gear dosnt sift until it hits about 3,000 rpm but when the engine warms up it shifts at a lower rpm....normal?

 

[96743runner]

wow im sorry to hear that man thats a bummer..

are there alot of tranny promblems with the 02's? i have a 02 sport with 70,000

what are the symptoms of a tranny going bad? because when i start the car up in the morning to go to work... 1st gear dosnt sift until it hits about 3,000 rpm but when the engine warms up it shifts at a lower rpm....normal?

Yeah that's normal. Mine does it too when it's cold.

 

[pat161]

Holding 1st when cold is just your truck warming itself up as quickly as possible and is normal. I live in central MA and some winter mornings I have to go quite a ways before it shifts into higher gears. As for the 01 and 02, I won't say tranny issues are common, but if you search here and a few other sites you will find a disturbing trend with the 01 and 02 having issues around 100k, of course we are purists so we hear about issues, I'm sure only a small percentage will be affected. I am in agreement, as is my friend, that nothing major can really be wrong, no metal in the fluid and still bright red and not burnt, so I know gears didn't shear off and it didn't overheat, so I hope it is some electrical issue inside the tranny, everything I could see looked good but I didn't start testing all the plugs, I'll do that at my friends with a lift. As for symptoms, in my case there were none, the truck ran perfectly all day, hiking in VT, home from VT then 7 miles for dinner, restart no gears, all neutral. I'm going to try and get it to my friend today so we can start the diagnosis, as soon as we figure it out I'll update.

 

[kball]

A totally different vehicle but similar symptom. I had a 97 Caravan, brand new with only 75 miles on it. Stopped at a stop sign and it would not go forward anymore. Tried all the gears and all I would get is revving, somewhat laboured like it was trying but no movement. Reverse still worked so I backed it up and waited for a tow. Ended up being some solenoid on the tranny. I'm pretty sure it's on the outside though. I would check all the outside electrical first.

 

[pat161]

Just to update, I got it to my friend on Friday but he was fairly busy so we just did the basic visual stuff, he climbed under while I ran it through the gears to make sure the linkage was working, then we pulled the line to the cooler to make sure it was pumping. As I said it got busy after that so I stuck around and helped with a few things then took off. He was busy Saturday so I took the chance to research remanned trannies and call a few shops in case we needed to take the tranny somewhere. Talking to one shop the guy said he didn't think my tranny was bad at all simply from me describing the symptoms, he said he thought I blew my rear end or messed up the xfer case. I was skeptical but called my friend in the evening, he's 100 miles away or I would have gone there right away, and told him to put it in 4wd. And wouldn't you know it went right up is driveway using the front end. So I'm going back down today and we're going to open up the xfer case and see what we find, maybe I just slipped a chain or something simple. Needless to say, I am pleased right now, well not really, but a transfer case is better than a tranny any day.

 

[LINY4Runner]

Hey not to insult your intelligence, because I'm just suggesting this because it's something I did once...but did you check to make sure you didn't accidentally pop the transfer case into neutral? Call your friend and tell him to put it back into 2wd, make sure it's locked into 2wd and try it again.

 

[pat161]

No the transfer case wasn't in neutral, we did verify that. I got back to it today and it was nice to drive it into the shop under its own power at least. We threw it on the lift and while I gave it gas in drive my friend was able to actually hold the rear drive shaft from spinning, so we pretty much know the issue is in the transfer case and not the rear diff. In 4lo the tranny shifts fine through 3 gears so that seems ok as well. We yanked the transfer case and split it open removing all the gears from the main shaft and removing all the shift forks, we basically broke the transfer case apart into every piece possible. We closely inspected each piece and found absolutely no obvious issues at all, no gears were worn, the gear oil looked brand new, I changed it last October, and no metal shavings were present. My friend was a Toyota tech before going independent, so tomorrow hes going to call a friend who is the head tech at his old dealership and see if he has any insight. Right now I'm stumped, its clearly in the transfer case but nothing seems wrong with it.

 

[RunnerUp]

*subscribed* this is the first time ive heard of any issues with the xfer case on these trucks... want to know what it turns out being

 

[pat161]

I also have not heard many instances of the transfer case letting go. And of course like other things, 01 and 02 are different from all other 3rd gens and not interchangeable. The transfer case is pretty cool though, I forgot my camera yesterday but its still open so I'll take pics tomorrow. Calling around this morning a local junkyard has one from an 02 w/ 94k for $350, so I'm going to buy it. My friend did call his buddy who put a call out on the national service line, or whatever it is, to see if any other techs around the country have ideas. I figure for $350 I'm buying the used one either way, that way I can get the truck going tomorrow, hopefully, then if I can rebuild or fix mine I'll either reinstall it and sell the used one or keep it as a spare. I am becoming worried I may never know what is wrong, as I said every part inside the case looked fine, its just very strange. We thought it might be a clutch pack or something, but there are no clutch packs in there, just a few planets and gears on a main shaft with an enormous chain. I'll snap pics as my description is lacking I know. Lets just say I always thought there were a few gears with a chain around them, its a whole lot more than that.

 

[pat161]

Just figured I'd throw a few pictures up, I'll be installing the used transfer case this afternoon, so lets hope I'll be bringing the Runner home tonight. Here she is on the wrecker and then the new/used case.

 

[pat161]

Thanks to everyone for all the support and advice, its always appreciated. I got her back to normal yesterday. We installed the used transfer case without issue and once buttoned back up shes better than ever. Driving the 100 or so miles home in the Runner last night was so much nicer than the horrible Dodge Stratus I was renting. I can't say exactly what happened to the original case, when we pulled it apart everything looked fine and my friends buddy at the dealership had nothing to offer, apparently these case don't let go. Aside from getting all the original specs and going through and measuring every piece very precisely I don't see how I could figure it out, and while I'd love to know, its not that important to me. One thing I can say is my original case was always fairly buzzy, it vibrated a lot if you put your hand on the shifter, and while thats normal, the new one is much less noticeable, the same at 70 as the original was at 40. Plus my truck always clunked into 4wd, on the new one I can hear the electric actuator engaging instead of a clunk. Anyway, hers a few pics of the case torn apart.http://i949.photobucket.com/albums/ad340/pat161_1973/BrokenRunner003.jpg
http://i949.photobucket.com/albums/ad340/pat161_1973/BrokenRunner004.jpg
http://i949.photobucket.com/albums/ad340/pat161_1973/BrokenRunner005.jpg

 

[t4rskier]

glad to hear you're back up and running! I've got the exact same 2002 Sport, same color, but unfortunately, I fear that I won't have the same positive outcome to my transmission problems (posted in a previous thread).

My 4Runner currently sits dead in my driveway while I while I sit with indecision about what to do about it. As I posted earlier, the owner of a transmission shop that I spoke with diagnosed the problem over the phone as a blown overdrive bearing. I still haven't found any detail in the form of a TSB or otherwise to corroborate this, and I fear that it could be a whole different can of worms once he actually gets the tranny pulled off and onto the bench. Other mechanics that I've spoken with all agree that I shouldn't even bother and just get a rebuilt or salvage A340F transmission to replace mine. Given that fixing the overdrive bearing is quoted at ~$2300 and replacing with a rebuilt tranny will likely run over $4000, I have some pretty big reservations about going forward with either option. I really love my truck, but it's a pretty tough call to spend that kind of dough on a '02 4Runner with 125K miles. I fear the the worst at this point.

 

[pat161]

Yup, the O/D being the issue does not surprise me at all, becoming all too common in 01 and 02 models. I'm sorry to hear that, quite honestly, before we diagnosed it to the transfer case I really thought that was my issue as well. I can't tell you what to do, but I can tell you what I was planning on if my tranny was shot. I fully agree that tearing it open and trying to fix the issue yourself or even at a local tranny shop is not a good option. If you have an excellent tranny shop that comes highly reccomended from a few people then maybe, I have to admit I was impressed when the tranny shop I called helped me diagnose the issue even though they knew it meant they probably would not see the truck. Also I would not take a gamble on a salvage yard tranny, I went for the t-case because its unheard of and I'm hoping mine was a freak thing, but the tranny is a known weak spot for these years, so why put in a probable failure? You could go for a rebuilt unit from a reputable company w/ a warranty, I found a few online, cheapest being $1770 plus like $300 core charge. That is a decent option, but a rebuild is generally just replacing anything clearly worn and a cleanup and inspection, anything within spec is left alone. What I feel is the best option is to go with a Jasper reman transmission, they get $2380, but perhaps you could bargain a little. On their website they say they research OEM defects and try to resolve them instead of just using the same bad design, so maybe if you call them they have some insight into why the O/D lets go and they may have found some solution. That's just my opinion, so take it or leave it, but either way I wish you the best of luck with your descision.

 

[t4rskier]

Thanks for the advice. much appreciated.