Any owners of Toyo Open Country AT3 - SL (for off-roading) - Any history of issues?

[deevilla7]

I did a through search for Toyo OC AT3 topics but couldn't find an exact answer, so wanted to ask 'SL AT3 owners' for off-road experience.

My stock Nittos Terras from stock PRO are about done. I absolutely had no issues with the beginner/moderate trails with Nittos, always made it home. I never rock climb or do difficult trails with my stock setup.

Was there ever an incident where AT3 SL obtained trail damage from sharp rocks or left you stranded? My go-to places are Mojave type of places.

I do like to keep the daily commute MPG the same as Nittos so I am trying to stick with lower weights instead of E rated.

Thank you in advance.

 

[5thToy]

It's a loaded question IMO. Trail conditions, driving style/skill and risk aversion levels vary.

I ran SL ATs on a few trails for a very short period of time. I did not experience issues.

However, I switched to C load LT tires for a few reasons.

I am not willing to risk airing down SL tires and I find road pressures miserable on rough trails, especially washboards.

I am often alone on trails and want to minimize risk of equipment failure while maximizing my odds of getting home.

For me, SLs are not worth the risk for the very small fuel efficiency hit of tires that are five to six pounds heavier per wheel than stock SLs.

I went with Cs, bought wheels that are five pounds lighter and called it a day.

 

[deevilla7]

It's a loaded question IMO. Trail conditions, driving style/skill and risk aversion levels vary.

I ran SL ATs on a few trails for a very short period of time. I did not experience issues.

However, I switched to C load LT tires for a few reasons.

I am not willing to risk airing down SL tires and I find road pressures miserable on rough trails, especially washboards.

I am often alone on trails and want to minimize risk of equipment failure while maximizing my odds of getting home.

For me, SLs are not worth the risk for the very small fuel efficiency hit of tires that are five to six pounds heavier per wheel than stock SLs.

I went with Cs, bought wheels that are five pounds lighter and called it a day.

I see what you mean, but Cs are not an option for AT3 stock size. I believe in 285 they are. I am planning to keep my Pro setup stock. So the tire is the only replacement.

My guess is that Terra Grapplers are more of SL rated if anything and I aired them down to 15 lbs regardless of off-road conditions, thankfully never came across problem with Nittos.

Correct me if I am wrong but I don't see the same exact TRD PRO stock Terra Grapplers in the market. I only see G2's.

 

[5thToy]

I see what you mean, but Cs are not an option for AT3 stock size. I believe in 285 they are. I am planning to keep my Pro setup stock. So the tire is the only replacement.

My guess is that Terra Grapplers are more of SL rated if anything and I aired them down to 15 lbs regardless of off-road conditions, thankfully never came across problem with Nittos.

Correct me if I am wrong but I don't see the same exact TRD PRO stock Terra Grapplers in the market. I only see G2's.

I am not knowledgable regarding Terra Grappler vs G2 but stock Pro 265s are SL unless I am mistaken.

If you are set on AT3s, you are correct about not having a C option in stock size.

I went with KO2 C in 265.

That's what I meant about different risk aversion levels. Personally, I would never deflate an SL tire to 15 psi off-road. We are all different.

 

[deevilla7]

I am not knowledgable regarding Terra Grappler vs G2 but stock Pro 265s are SL unless I am mistaken.

If you are set on AT3s, you are correct about not having a C option in stock size.

I went with KO2 C in 265.

That's what I meant about different risk aversion levels. Personally, I would never deflate an SL tire to 15 psi off-road. We are all different.

Little off-topic but how much did MPG change after installing KO2 C from the stock (if you had stock before)?

 

[SlickTRD]

i had toyo oc at3 sl in stock 4r size on my gx460 for 2 years and 15k miles and they ran without issues. however, i did test the falken wp sl load for few hundred miles miles and they had slightly better characteristics on road. unsure about off roading. if i had to do it over - i would pick the falken wp sl load.

 

[johnnygraphic]

It's a loaded question IMO. Trail conditions, driving style/skill and risk aversion levels vary.

I ran SL ATs on a few trails for a very short period of time. I did not experience issues.

However, I switched to C load LT tires for a few reasons.

I am not willing to risk airing down SL tires and I find road pressures miserable on rough trails, especially washboards.

I am often alone on trails and want to minimize risk of equipment failure while maximizing my odds of getting home.

For me, SLs are not worth the risk for the very small fuel efficiency hit of tires that are five to six pounds heavier per wheel than stock SLs.

I went with Cs, bought wheels that are five pounds lighter and called it a day.

100% agree with the above. Go LT C or E rated if you’re going off road. Any fuel savings due to weight will disappear as soon as you find yourself stranded in the middle of the desert with no one in sight.

Remember, those trails were adversely affected by the floods a few months ago. A lot more rocks etc on the trails now.

Upgrading my tires to E rated Falken Wildpeaks was the first thing I did.


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[5thToy]

Little off-topic but how much did MPG change after installing KO2 C from the stock (if you had stock before)?

No measurable change. I went from SR5 wheels and stock Dunlops to TRD Pro wheels and KO2 Cs in the same stock 265 size. Wheels are 5 lbs lighter, tires 5-6 libs heavier. Basically a wash.

 

[DannyLlama]

no experience with AT3, but i have had 2 sidewall punctures on the AT2's on 2 separate trips, which is too much of a coincidence for me and puts Toyo at a no for me.

 

[johnnygraphic]

no experience with AT3, but i have had 2 sidewall punctures on the AT2's on 2 separate trips, which is too much of a coincidence for me and puts Toyo at a no for me.

The other thing to keep in mind is that sidewall punctures are next to impossible to patch.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but LT tires have more rugged sidewalks as well.


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[5thToy]

The other thing to keep in mind is that sidewall punctures are next to impossible to patch.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but LT tires have more rugged sidewalks as well.


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Yes, and that's one of the main reasons you do not want to air SLs down off-road.

It exposes weaker sidewalls that much more to punctures.

 

[Pedro367]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but LT tires have more rugged sidewalks as well.


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Not necessarily. There are plenty of E load tires with still a 2 ply sidewall. I.e. the Falken AT3W. The load range coincides with tread plies, not sidewall.

C load KO2s are still a 2 ply sidewall whereas the E loads are 3. I ran them in stock size and had negligible gas mileage hit, maybe .5mpg.

It's really hard to answer your question or being able to prove an SL tire would be cut on a certain rock where an E/C wouldn't. As they said, if you want the extra insurance to sacrifice a little mpg hit, ride quality, or slowness of your 4R in the name of a stronger tire, then that's up to you. Personally, for what most people do with a 4Runner I don't think it's as much of an issue to run a SL offroad as people make it out to be. That's just me though as I prefer the better on road characteristics. Even my C load KO2s rode considerably firmer than the SL Maxxis I have now. I'm happier with the SL.

The stock Nitto Terra Grapplers that Toyota puts on the Pro are the original Terra Grappler design that Nitto made. My guess is due to cost they haven't made the switch to the G2s (which have been out forever now) and Nitto makes it specifically for them still as a cheaper OE tire. FWIW, I've had G2s twice. They suck.

 

[mainerunr]

Not necessarily. There are plenty of E load tires with still a 2 ply sidewall. I.e. the Falken AT3W. The load range coincides with tread plies, not sidewall.

C load KO2s are still a 2 ply sidewall whereas the E loads are 3. I ran them in stock size and had negligible gas mileage hit, maybe .5mpg.

It's really hard to answer your question or being able to prove an SL tire would be cut on a certain rock where an E/C wouldn't. As they said, if you want the extra insurance to sacrifice a little mpg hit, ride quality, or slowness of your 4R in the name of a stronger tire, then that's up to you. Personally, for what most people do with a 4Runner I don't think it's as much of an issue to run a SL offroad as people make it out to be. That's just me though as I prefer the better on road characteristics. Even my C load KO2s rode considerably firmer than the SL Maxxis I have now. I'm happier with the SL.

The stock Nitto Terra Grapplers that Toyota puts on the Pro are the original Terra Grappler design that Nitto made. My guess is due to cost they haven't made the switch to the G2s (which have been out forever now) and Nitto makes it specifically for them still as a cheaper OE tire. FWIW, I've had G2s twice. They suck.

Load range vs ply rating is not the same as it was. Most tires are 2-3 ply now yet people think a LRE is 10 ply...it was, ages ago when bias-ply tires were a thing. Now the number is a ply rating, not the actual number of plies.

And the ply rating refers to both the sidewall and the tread.

 

[Pedro367]

Load range vs ply rating is not the same as it was. Most tires are 2-3 ply now yet people think a LRE is 10 ply...it was, ages ago when bias-ply tires were a thing. Now the number is a ply rating, not the actual number of plies.

And the ply rating refers to both the sidewall and the tread.

Good to know. I didn't realize that it's just the rating and not # of plies anymore. I know E's are obviously a thicker stronger sidewall based on the E's, Cs, and SLs I've run in the past, but my point was that durability also depends on the manufacturer and how they make the tire too like sidewall/tread design and tread compound. The offroad tire market is flooded with very strong C load options in 2 and 3 ply sidewalls and has been for awhile. My opinion is that an E really isn't necessary especially on a 4runner or any vehicle in this class. There are much more hardcore and capable rigs than a 4runner that run Cs without issues. I really don't think you are gaining enough sidewall strength to warrant them.

 

[johnnygraphic]

Hi all-thought I'd pass along this tidbit from Falken. I thought the subject very intriguing so I figured I would email Falken directly. Below is my question and the reply.

Q: I am inquiring regarding the tires I purchased roughly 1 year ago (2nd set of Wildpeaks!). I am wondering how many plies the sidewalls are. Also, is there a ‘rating’ for the sidewalls? Are they likewise E rated?

A: Thank you for reaching out to us regarding sidewall ply count. For all AT3w tire sizes, P and LTs, the Wildpeak AT3w contains a two ply sidewall, which helps provide a more comfortable ride in comparison to tires with a three ply sidewall.

The letter rating only applies to LT size tires, as they are typically used for towing and/or heavy payload conditions. The letter rating is an old-school way of classifying bias-ply tires of their load strength. Nowadays, modern tires are radial and not bias-ply. However, letter ratings are used as a “equivalent” grade to their bias-ply counterparts.