Anyone using 0W20?
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BlackWorksInc
New member
As far as I know, Toyota only "okay'd" 0w-20 oil for engines that were previously using 5w-20 oil.
Something else to note is that Toyota says to still use a 5k service interval in engines that don't normally call for 0w-20, even if you switch.
Something else to note is that Toyota says to still use a 5k service interval in engines that don't normally call for 0w-20, even if you switch.
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T4R2014
Elite Member
I feel like I saw a document from Toyota that ok'd the use of 0W20 in the 1GR and even in the 5VZ. Don't quote me on that though. But... why would you want to? These thin oils are aimed at increasing fuel economy. I would be putting in a XW40 oil in a 1GR to quiet down the valvetrain.
BlackWorksInc
New member
I'd be cautious with that, there was a member or two having issues with their 1GR-FEs who were running 10w-40 oil. You MIGHT get away with a 5w-40, but honestly I would run the oil the vehicle was designed for; particularly in an engine with VVTi.
Post Note-
Here's the TSB you're talking about. As you can see in the TSB, Toyota says you can go down to a 5w-20 oil for most of their older engines. But all the 2AZ engines (2.4L I4) used in the last 10 years that called for 5w-20 are okay to use 0w-20 (they also say this on the cap.)
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CookieRoe
Senior Member
To be honest, I could care less about fuel economy, but more interested in cold temp protection. Regarding the valvetrain, heck it was designed to be noisy, I'm ok with that.
T4R2014
Elite Member
That was it! Thanks. I've seen 5W40 spec'd for use overseas in Europe in the 1GR, hence my suggestion. But yeah, use at your own risk. Thanks for clarifying.
Good point.
BlackWorksInc
New member
According to Toyota the 5w-30 oil will cover into the -29°C (-20°F) and upwards of the 38°C (100°F) range, this can be seen in your owner's manual as well.
Haven't seen/heard anything about 5w-40 being recommended, but I suppose it could be possible.
Haven't seen/heard anything about 5w-40 being recommended, but I suppose it could be possible.
97hb
New member
Just my experience, ran cheapest Walmart oil in all different flavors for the first 200k. Rotella 15w40, 5w40 and 10w30 since then, although the 03 and 04 4runners were sl rated so 1000+ zddp is OK. My 1gr is so quiet I forget it's on sometimes lol. Don't know if I'd want to run that watery XW20, but they have nothing but good things to say about tgmo on bitog. Lots of moly!!!
toyo
Member
The main issue is the engine was not designed to run on that particular weight of oil. The tolerances/clearance between the bearings are designed for a specific oil weight. The other engines that it will work on like BlackWorksInc was referring to has been tested by Toyota with no negative effects. Obviously our 4R engines will not.
gshadow325
New member
i dont know if there is scientific fact backing up my opinion, so i'll leave it at my opinion.
i think as out cars get older, the seals dry up and if we put a thinner oil in it, we should naturally get oil leaks.
I dumped out a DRY transfer case and put in redline gear oil when i bought it with 164k on it. by 168k it started leaking. Coincidence?? Or was it the thinner oil? Should i have used regular dino oil in there?
Dont know, but i do know this. Changed out my seals at 169k and replaced it with more synthetic fluid and its at 194500 yesterday. still no leaks.
thinner oil, good or bad?
I know the car manufactures do it to get average fuel economy up so it looks good for DOT, but is it good for the vehicle.
Just like car naufactures saying oil changes are at 10,000k intervals that is included in the sale of a new car purchase. Is that really good for the engine? I still stick to my 5000 for sythetic and 2500 for my dino oil cars.
i think as out cars get older, the seals dry up and if we put a thinner oil in it, we should naturally get oil leaks.
I dumped out a DRY transfer case and put in redline gear oil when i bought it with 164k on it. by 168k it started leaking. Coincidence?? Or was it the thinner oil? Should i have used regular dino oil in there?
Dont know, but i do know this. Changed out my seals at 169k and replaced it with more synthetic fluid and its at 194500 yesterday. still no leaks.
thinner oil, good or bad?
I know the car manufactures do it to get average fuel economy up so it looks good for DOT, but is it good for the vehicle.
Just like car naufactures saying oil changes are at 10,000k intervals that is included in the sale of a new car purchase. Is that really good for the engine? I still stick to my 5000 for sythetic and 2500 for my dino oil cars.
In case anyone missed it, here's a recent post I wrote about why I think it should work. http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-g...rebate-mobil-1-synthetic-oil.html#post1957608
Basically 0w20 is in the same range as 5w20 at operating temperature, but it's better at startup. The TSB approves 5w20 for our engines, so 0w20 should be better. I haven't found any good answer for why they didn't approve 0w20, but it could be that Toyota's own 0w20 is at the low end of the viscosity range to maximize fuel economy (Mobil 1 is a bit higher, I think), or because of cost (6.5 quarts of Toyota 0w20 is expensive), or because it wasn't worth the time/effort/cost to test it, and they won't approve it without testing it. It could be that they only tested one grade lighter than originally spec'd for each engine. Only Toyota knows.
I think it's true that as the engine wears a higher viscosity oil is more appropriate, but from what I've read the 4.7L is easy on oil and the engine will last forever, so it could be a long time before it needs higher viscosity. I don't know as much about the 4.0L. And I don't have a very good understanding of how oil lubricates an engine, so I can't think intuitively about what's going on.
Re: 10,000 mile oil changes. Oil, engines, and filters have gotten better over the years, so there's nothing wrong with a 10,000 mile oil change if that's what it's designed for. 2,500 miles is excessive, and you are most likely draining out clean oil. You can get a used oil analysis before you change it and they will probably tell you that you can go a while longer. Mobil 1 will even give you a warranty against oil-caused engine failures with up to 10,000 mile oil changes (10,000 miles or the manufacturer's recommended interval, whichever is longer) if you document all the oil changes and if they determine that the failure is caused by oil. The chances of engine failure and them finding that it was caused by oil are low enough that it's not worth it to me to keep documentation, but it might be worth it if you are concerned. Note that their warranty is only good if you use the oil the manufacturer recommends, but their 0w20 says it's approved for any application that calls for 5w20, so you might want to call them and clarify (or better yet, get it in writing if you actually plan to use the warranty).
There was one report somewhere of someone using 0w20 in a 4.7L V8, but I can no longer find it. There are a couple reports of dealers accidentally putting it in, but they are not helpful.
Some UOA reports:
Blackstone UOA (2UZ-FE)
May have went a little too far btw/ oil changes | IH8MUD Forum
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/165006-blackstone-oil-analysis-report-2uz-fe-v8.html
Oil Analysis 2UZ-FE | Page 2 | IH8MUD Forum
Lots more if you search.
I'll try it, run it for about 5,000 miles if there are no bad noises, then get a UOA and post the results (probably in the fall).
Basically 0w20 is in the same range as 5w20 at operating temperature, but it's better at startup. The TSB approves 5w20 for our engines, so 0w20 should be better. I haven't found any good answer for why they didn't approve 0w20, but it could be that Toyota's own 0w20 is at the low end of the viscosity range to maximize fuel economy (Mobil 1 is a bit higher, I think), or because of cost (6.5 quarts of Toyota 0w20 is expensive), or because it wasn't worth the time/effort/cost to test it, and they won't approve it without testing it. It could be that they only tested one grade lighter than originally spec'd for each engine. Only Toyota knows.
I think it's true that as the engine wears a higher viscosity oil is more appropriate, but from what I've read the 4.7L is easy on oil and the engine will last forever, so it could be a long time before it needs higher viscosity. I don't know as much about the 4.0L. And I don't have a very good understanding of how oil lubricates an engine, so I can't think intuitively about what's going on.
Re: 10,000 mile oil changes. Oil, engines, and filters have gotten better over the years, so there's nothing wrong with a 10,000 mile oil change if that's what it's designed for. 2,500 miles is excessive, and you are most likely draining out clean oil. You can get a used oil analysis before you change it and they will probably tell you that you can go a while longer. Mobil 1 will even give you a warranty against oil-caused engine failures with up to 10,000 mile oil changes (10,000 miles or the manufacturer's recommended interval, whichever is longer) if you document all the oil changes and if they determine that the failure is caused by oil. The chances of engine failure and them finding that it was caused by oil are low enough that it's not worth it to me to keep documentation, but it might be worth it if you are concerned. Note that their warranty is only good if you use the oil the manufacturer recommends, but their 0w20 says it's approved for any application that calls for 5w20, so you might want to call them and clarify (or better yet, get it in writing if you actually plan to use the warranty).
There was one report somewhere of someone using 0w20 in a 4.7L V8, but I can no longer find it. There are a couple reports of dealers accidentally putting it in, but they are not helpful.
Some UOA reports:
Blackstone UOA (2UZ-FE)
May have went a little too far btw/ oil changes | IH8MUD Forum
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/165006-blackstone-oil-analysis-report-2uz-fe-v8.html
Oil Analysis 2UZ-FE | Page 2 | IH8MUD Forum
Lots more if you search.
I'll try it, run it for about 5,000 miles if there are no bad noises, then get a UOA and post the results (probably in the fall).
CookieRoe
Senior Member
Yes, your post is what led me to open this thread. There is sporadic talk about some using it, but no thread dedicated on who is using and how they are doing.
I can't see a legit reason for NOT using, but as you said, only Toyota knows.
Thanks for the info, it's appreciated. So yeah, report back on the 0W20 on your V8.
[MENTION=15903]97hb[/MENTION] : Thanks for the link, I'll post the pic here:
I finally got around to changing my oil. I put in 6.5 quarts of Mobil 1 EP 0W20 and a Mobil 1 EP filter, all of which I got rebates for.
The old oil (whatever the dealer put in) came out darker than I expected. I was also surprised to see that the drain plug is not magnetic. I think I'll get one and put it in next time.
On the first startup it took a moment longer than normal for the low oil pressure light to go out, but I assume that's because it has to fill up the filter. The second time I started it, a half hour later, the light went out as the starter finished cranking, like it did before I changed it.
I went for a drive to get everything warmed up and try it out. I did some hard acceleration, and everything seemed normal. My engine has not seized up yet! I plan to monitor the color and amount of oil periodically, and if it continues to look good I'll get a used oil analysis around 5,000 miles from now to see if I can go to 10,000. If the results are inconclusive I have a sample of the old oil that I can send in at that time for comparison, but it's not worth the cost to do it right now. If I can do longer change intervals it's worth the cost of UOA to find that out.
I'll see how my gas mileage is affected by this oil. If the dealer put in 5W20 it should be about the same, but if they were using 5W30 I'm hoping to see a slight improvement.
While I was under there I noticed one of my CV joints sprayed out most of its grease. I didn't have time to investigate more, but I'll need to do something about it soon.
The old oil (whatever the dealer put in) came out darker than I expected. I was also surprised to see that the drain plug is not magnetic. I think I'll get one and put it in next time.
On the first startup it took a moment longer than normal for the low oil pressure light to go out, but I assume that's because it has to fill up the filter. The second time I started it, a half hour later, the light went out as the starter finished cranking, like it did before I changed it.
I went for a drive to get everything warmed up and try it out. I did some hard acceleration, and everything seemed normal. My engine has not seized up yet! I plan to monitor the color and amount of oil periodically, and if it continues to look good I'll get a used oil analysis around 5,000 miles from now to see if I can go to 10,000. If the results are inconclusive I have a sample of the old oil that I can send in at that time for comparison, but it's not worth the cost to do it right now. If I can do longer change intervals it's worth the cost of UOA to find that out.
I'll see how my gas mileage is affected by this oil. If the dealer put in 5W20 it should be about the same, but if they were using 5W30 I'm hoping to see a slight improvement.
While I was under there I noticed one of my CV joints sprayed out most of its grease. I didn't have time to investigate more, but I'll need to do something about it soon.
84,009 miles on it now. The last oil was in there for 5,719 miles.
Or if you meant gas mileage, here's my fuelly profile:
4runner (Toyota 4Runner) | Fuelly
Or if you meant gas mileage, here's my fuelly profile:
4runner (Toyota 4Runner) | Fuelly
CookieRoe
Senior Member
Cool, keep us updated! :thumb:
I finally filled up with gas for the first time since putting in 0W20. I don't drive much!
The results are in and I got... 14.5mpg
It's been rainy here, so I've been driving around town instead of riding my bike. And I haven't taken any highway trips. My average is right around 18, but most of the time I do mostly highway miles. Hopefully I'll be back to my normal driving pattern now so I can get a better comparison.
Short trips around town are where I was expecting 0W20 to help the most, since it's less viscous as the engine warms up. The only tank I have for comparison was one last winter where I got 12.7, but it was extremely cold for a couple weeks, and I wasted some gas letting the engine warm up.
It's still running great, and the only observation I have is that downshifting to engine brake doesn't seem to add much resistance. I can't tell for sure if there's less resistance than before. I might just be imagining it. And I just put 1000 miles on a rental car with a 4 speed transmission in the mountains, so that could be skewing my perception.
I also put mobil 1 synthetic 75W-90 in the rear diff and transfer case around the same time as the oil change.
The results are in and I got... 14.5mpg
It's been rainy here, so I've been driving around town instead of riding my bike. And I haven't taken any highway trips. My average is right around 18, but most of the time I do mostly highway miles. Hopefully I'll be back to my normal driving pattern now so I can get a better comparison.
Short trips around town are where I was expecting 0W20 to help the most, since it's less viscous as the engine warms up. The only tank I have for comparison was one last winter where I got 12.7, but it was extremely cold for a couple weeks, and I wasted some gas letting the engine warm up.
It's still running great, and the only observation I have is that downshifting to engine brake doesn't seem to add much resistance. I can't tell for sure if there's less resistance than before. I might just be imagining it. And I just put 1000 miles on a rental car with a 4 speed transmission in the mountains, so that could be skewing my perception.
I also put mobil 1 synthetic 75W-90 in the rear diff and transfer case around the same time as the oil change.
I averaged about 20 mpg on a recent road trip, most of that with bikes on the back on a hitch rack. Speeds were 55-70 most of the way, with an hour at 75. I climbed several mountain passes and drove to the summit of Pike's Peak (8000 vertical feet above Colorado Springs), and I didn't notice any problems as a result of the oil weight. Pike's Peak is the best stress test I can think of without towing or racing, and BMW had several test vehicles at the summit when I got there. The oil looked clean before the trip, and I'll have to check it again now. I still plan to get a UOA done later to confirm the condition of the oil and check for any warning signs about the engine health, but I don't expect any problems. I have about 1300 miles on this oil now.
