Apple iPhone 8/X and A11

[Thai]

Both new iPhones don't support 600Mhz LTE, which T-Mobile will be rolling out over the next couple of years. Yet another reason I'll hang onto by 6s+ and stay on the sidelines for a year.

Most definitely...if you’re a TMo customer (or want to be), then you should wait another 6 months to buy phone OR get the new LG V30.

Samsung Note 8 (and S8) do NOT support 600 MHz (band 71). Pixel 2 does not either.

The ONLY one right now is the LG V30. Samsung is rumored to bring out another mid-level phone later this year to support band 71...may be the A-series??

So, not supporting band 71 (600 MHz) by iPhone is not really surprising.

EDIT: maybe next year’s update on iPhone SE will support band 71??

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Apple has always been slow to adapt new standards...they usually only do so after it being tested thoroughly.

Actually, with iPhone 7 from Verizon and Sprint, Apple used the latest Qualcomm modem (at time of introduction), BUT Apple throttled it to keep the speeds in line with the GSM iPhone 7 (ATT & TMo), which had the Intel modem. (This is why Verizon/Sprint iP7 could be used on ATT/TMo network, but GSM iP7 could not be used on CDMA Verizon/Sprint network.). For example, my iP7+ from Verizon has the same Qualcomm chip as S7 (and S8 i think)...but will never reach its potential because of software limitation.

Right now, no one knows what modem is in iP8/X. BUT, it seems like apple is following iPhone 7. There are two models for iP8/X...one CDMA model that works on GSM and one GSM model that only works on GSM.

So, MY 100% GUESS is that Apple is using 50% Qualcomm and 50% Intel like they did with iP7...but the software throttles the Qualcomm chip.

Good analysis, does provide context on some articles I read. Like I said, it seems like it probably won't matter too much as Gigabit LTE is not yet mainstream and probably won't be launched for another year; so I suppose not a huge knock against the phones currently.

@Thai

Wait, I'm confused because a couple articles I read mentioned that "Qualcomm Technologies has confirmed support of 600 MHz in the Snapdragon X16 LTE modem — featured in the Snapdragon 835 mobile platform— and the WTR5975 RF transceiver that it pairs with.” So wouldn't that mean that any Snapdragon 835 equipped phone should be cable of using 600mhz Band 71 (from a hardware standpoint) but it'll be Qualcomm who has to "enable" it? Or am I mixing up something here?

 

[Thai]

That's what I was reading as well, they're using a combination of lower-end Qualcomm and Intel modems to supplement them.

I suppose it'll just come down to how quickly Gigabit LTE get's rolled out? If it's within the next year than these phones will essentially be out-dated on release until Apple makes a new version with a better modem while the competition is "future-proofed" in that regard. If it's longer than a year or two, by that time they'll have caught up on sourcing competitive modems and the issue is moot; bit of a risky gamble I suppose.

I mean current speed is nice, but let's be honest from a consumer standpoint speed/connectivity is a huge factor in not only handset sales but provider sales as well. I would have thought at least the X would have been future-proofed in that regard since they did such a good job on the phone otherwise. Oh well, still a powerful platform.

Of interest...only Qualcomm latest modem AND Huawei Kirin 970 modem support Gigabit LTE. Intel probably does not. Samsung modem does not either.

Personally, for future-proofing, i care more about the processor being able to handle future loads without overheating or throttling. I also care about band integration (such as support for band 71 above) because that affects my daily use (aka building penetration).

Gigabit LTE is fine for showing off...but i will believe it when i see it! Verizon is supposed to be pretty fast...i am lucky to see 35 mbps on a good day!! So, anything around 100-200 mbps will be more than enough!:bravo:

 

[Thai]

Good analysis, does provide context on some articles I read. Like I said, it seems like it probably won't matter too much as Gigabit LTE is not yet mainstream and probably won't be launched for another year; so I suppose not a huge knock against the phones currently.

@Thai

Wait, I'm confused because a couple articles I read mentioned that "Qualcomm Technologies has confirmed support of 600 MHz in the Snapdragon X16 LTE modem — featured in the Snapdragon 835 mobile platform— and the WTR5975 RF transceiver that it pairs with.” So wouldn't that mean that any Snapdragon 835 equipped phone should be cable of using 600mhz Band 71 (from a hardware standpoint) but it'll be Qualcomm who has to "enable" it? Or am I mixing up something here?

See here: Qualcomm confirms no existing smartphones will support T-Mobile?s 600MHz network ? BGR

 

[BlackWorksInc]

See here: Qualcomm confirms no existing smartphones will support T-Mobile?s 600MHz network ? BGR

Okay I see, while the processor is capable of B71, the boards are not set-up to support the standard yet. Makes sense.

 

[msp]

Okay I see, while the processor is capable of B71, the boards are not set-up to support the standard yet. Makes sense.

Not the end of the world for me. The 8 and X are nice phones. The next ones will be nicer. LOL. And on a good day in the city I can pull 100Mb up and down on Speedtest with my 6s+. That's more than enough bandwidth to check Instagram...

 

[Thai]

Not the end of the world for me. The 8 and X are nice phones. The next ones will be nicer. LOL. And on a good day in the city I can pull 100Mb up and down on Speedtest with my 6s+. That's more than enough bandwidth to check Instagram...

But remember, 600 MHz is for building penetration and range. For me, the actual speed (like Gigabit) is much less important than building penetration and range (or speed at the border of coverage).

600 will not give you speed...BUT, you will get decent speed INSIDE an office building, which is far more important.

I was on Sprint network last year...pretty good speed in the middle of an empty grass field. But inside buildings or in downtown area, it was pure crap. Or when i was on the road, i got 3G instead of LTE.

And this is why Verizon has/had dominated for so long because Verizon had 700 MHz everywhere! So, you got decent speeds inside buildings and on the roads throughout most of USA.

TMo 600 MHz (like Verizon’s 700) is “beach-front” property in mobile talk!! That is the golden ticket for mobile users. And this was why TMo spent BILLIONS to buy that spectrum...as Verizon did many years ago with the 700 MHz.

 

[Thai]

This is a good review of iP8: https://www.tomsguide.com/us/iphone-8-and-8-plus,review-4675.html

A few notes:

1. Toms Guide is normally bias favoring PC and Android stuff. (They don’t like Apple stuff much.)

2. The A11 CPU is awesome as expected...literally destroying everyone else, including Note 8.

3. But, the A11 GPU is just as powerful as CPU...again, destroying Qualcomm latest chip S835 in Note 8 in graphics by a huge margin. (Again, both CPU and GPU are pure Apple designed.)

4. The camera (at least on paper) of iP8 is slightly inferior to Note 8, but thanks to A11 and neural chip (Artificial intelligence), the pictures from the camera is truly class-leading!

5. And when it comes to video such as 4K at 60FPS, there is nothing close to iP8.

6. “What about real-world performance? We edited and exported the same 2-minute 4K video clip on the iPhone 8, Galaxy Note 8 and Galaxy S8 using the Adobe Premiere Clip app, and it wasn’t even close. The iPhone 8 finished the task in 42 seconds, compared with more than 3 minutes for the Galaxy Note 8 and more than 4 minutes for the Galaxy S8+.”

This gives me much hope for iPX because iPX camera specs are better than iP8+...so, this will farther separates iPX from everyone else.

 

[Thai]

This is a very wild rumor...a rumor that i have doubts on...but a few sites have said that the iPhone 8/X wide angle camera sensor size is 1/2.0-inch. The reasoning is that iP8/X wide angle lens has the same f/1.8 as iPhone 7. IPhone 7 specs are F/1.8 with 1/3-inch sensor format.

Apple is saying that the new sensor in iP8/X are bigger and lets in 83% more light.

So, with math, this means that iPhone 8/X sensor size (for wide angle at least) is 1/2.0-inch.

This is a HUGE JUMP in camera size and may explain why iPhone 8 camera so far has surpassed every other phone in quality pics. Adding bigger (huge) sensor + A11 chip with Ai is always a good thing!

For comparison, Note 8/S8 uses 1/2.55” for comparison. Most Point & Shoot cameras also use 1/2.3” sensor.

Again, take this with a BIG grain of salt. Apple jumping camera sensor size (from 1/3”, bypassing 1/2.3”, to 1/2.0”) is insane given that iPhone 8/X has not gotten any thicker than iPhone 7. And with increase sensor size, there is more data to process...so, this may explain why Apple A11 chip (with Neural processor) is so powerful???

Pretty cool if true...but....

 

[Thai]

Wait, I'm confused because a couple articles I read mentioned that "Qualcomm Technologies has confirmed support of 600 MHz in the Snapdragon X16 LTE modem — featured in the Snapdragon 835 mobile platform— and the WTR5975 RF transceiver that it pairs with.” So wouldn't that mean that any Snapdragon 835 equipped phone should be cable of using 600mhz Band 71 (from a hardware standpoint) but it'll be Qualcomm who has to "enable" it? Or am I mixing up something here?

Well, as i had expected, the iPhone 8 (and likely X too) does indeed use the latest Qualcomm chip in at least one of its model.

According to iFixit, the one (A1863) they tore down has: Qualcomm MDM9655 Snapdragon X16 LTE modem and Qualcomm WTR5975 Gigabit LTE RF transceiver. This is likely the CDMA (Sprint/Verizon) model.

But does this mean that it will get Gigabit LTE? Probably not because the identical twin brother (GSM iPhone 8/X) likely has the Intel chip. And Apple loves to equalize everything.

But to answer your question...iPhones do come with the latest Qualcomm chip in certain models (same as their Android flagships)...it is just a matter of Apple software limiting its capability. Now will Apple update it later to give Gigabit capability? I would not lose sleep over it.

Source: https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iPhone+8+Teardown/97481

 

[Thai]

According to Google’s own trade-in program, these are the values of certain phones:

1. IPhone 7+ = $388
2. iPhone 7 = $363
3. iPhone 6s+ = $264
4. iPhone 6s = $230
5. Iphone SE = $130

1. Samsung S8+ = $345
2. Samsung S8 = $305
3. Samsung S7 Edge = $175
4. Samsung S7 = $150

1. Nexus 6P = $165
2. Nexus 6 = $80
3. Nexus 5X = $115

1. LG G6 = $230

So, what does this all mean? IPhones are still superior in resale value. IPhone 7+ from 2016 has better resale value than the 2017 Samsung S8+...heck even the regular iPhone 7 has better value than S8+. In fact, iPhone 7+ costs more than double that of S7E from the same year!! The rest of Android flagships (e.g. G6) resale value are just bad.

Source: https://store.google.com/config/pixel_phone_us

 

[Thai]

DxOMark for iPhone 8+: https://www.dxomark.com/apple-iphone-8-plus-reviewed-the-best-smartphone-camera-ever-tested/

iPhone 8: https://www.dxomark.com/apple-iphone-8-reviewed-a-solid-performance-upgrade-over-the-iphone-7/

DxOMark ranks both to be best among smartphones. However, take DxO with a grain of salt. DxO has been criticized in past for not representing the whole picture (no pun intended)...i treat it as a benchmark test rather than an exhaustive camera review. DxO also has been accused in past of being “bought” by other companies for favorable review.

So, good that iPhones are doing well, but i rather wait for more definitive camera reviews by DPReview or Anandtech.

 

[Thai]

Source: Apple iPhone 8 Plus Teardown

[MENTION=66389]BlackWorksInc[/MENTION] As expected, the other iPhone 8+ (GSM) model uses Intel modem. It is Intel’s XMM7480 modem and is the company’s fourth-generation LTE modem.

 

[Thai]

Source: Apple iPhone 8 Plus Teardown

[MENTION=66389]BlackWorksInc[/MENTION] As expected, the other iPhone 8+ (GSM) model uses Intel modem. It is Intel’s XMM7480 modem and is the company’s fourth-generation LTE modem.

PDF of Intel modem: https://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/platform-briefs/xmm-7480-brief.pdf

It supports 600 Mbps download and 150 Mbps upload...similar speed to last year's Qualcomm X12 modem. This is Intel's latest modem that came out this year. (iPhone 7 GSM models had Intel XMM 7360.)

Due to above Intel, it is likely that Apple will limit Qualcomm X16-equipped iPhone to the same speed above.

 

[SDHQ SERENA]

I ordered the 8+, upgrading from the 7+ so its not too much of a change

 

[Thai]

I ordered the 8+, upgrading from the 7+ so its not too much of a change

Congrats...why did you upgrade? Did you consider the X?

 

[TexasTJ]

I just upgraded from the 6s Plus to the Note 8. Wife is now in need of a new phone now. She is going from the 6 to either the 7 or 8. Aside from wireless charging, memory storage, and glass vs aluminum backing I'm not seeing much difference in the 7 vs 8? The minuscule differences in processor speed won't make a difference to her.

We can get a 7 w/ 128gb or for $2 more per month an 8 w/ 64gb. Thoughts?

 

[SDHQ SERENA]

Congrats...why did you upgrade? Did you consider the X?

I habitually get the new ones, I considered the x although the screen is larger than the plus the unit is physically smaller, I also dont know about not having a home button.

 

[Thai]

I just upgraded from the 6s Plus to the Note 8. Wife is now in need of a new phone now. She is going from the 6 to either the 7 or 8. Aside from wireless charging, memory storage, and glass vs aluminum backing I'm not seeing much difference in the 7 vs 8? The minuscule differences in processor speed won't make a difference to her.

We can get a 7 w/ 128gb or for $2 more per month an 8 w/ 64gb. Thoughts?

Yes, for your wife, there is probably not much difference. Camera difference is significant though IF that is important to your wife. IPhone 8 camera is significantly better due to bigger sensor and better Ai processing.

IMO, if you wife does not store lots of stuff on her phone, then i would ALWAYS get the latest because tech world goes outdated quickly. With all the upcoming Ai stuff and AR, it will be quite demanding on the processor. IPhone 7 processor is no slouch, but A11 chip in iPhone 8 will promise longer shelf life. If your wife is like mine, then she probably does not upgrade her phone often...if so, get the iPhone 8 64GB (if financial not a big deal).

 

[Thai]

The beauty of Apple long-term software support: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/09/ios-11-on-the-iphone-5s-slower-but-not-quite-slow/

This is a 2013 iPhone 5s running the latest software (iOS 11)...a 5+ year old device that still works pretty darn good...and able to do easily 90+% of iOS 11 features.

And as far as we know, there is no reason why it won’t also get iOS 12 next year...thanks to its Apple A7 (ARMv8 architecture with 64 bit support and METAL) processor that in 2013 was simply a breakthrough and as future-proof as you can get in tech world.

Back in 2013, A7 processor caused “panic in the industry”...”APPLE KICKED EVERYBODY IN THE BALLS” per Qualcomm employee.

And ever since 2013, Apple processors have basically left everyone in the dust....