Apple Opposes Judge Order to Break Encryption

Thai

Elite Member
Link to CEO statement: Customer Letter - Apple

Some highlights:

"We have great respect for the professionals at the FBI, and we believe their intentions are good. Up to this point, we have done everything that is both within our power and within the law to help them. But now the U.S. government has asked us for something we simply do not have, and something we consider too dangerous to create. They have asked us to build a backdoor to the iPhone.

Specifically, the FBI wants us to make a new version of the iPhone operating system, circumventing several important security features, and install it on an iPhone recovered during the investigation. In the wrong hands, this software — which does not exist today — would have the potential to unlock any iPhone in someone’s physical possession.

The FBI may use different words to describe this tool, but make no mistake: Building a version of iOS that bypasses security in this way would undeniably create a backdoor. And while the government may argue that its use would be limited to this case, there is no way to guarantee such control.

The government suggests this tool could only be used once, on one phone. But that’s simply not true. Once created, the technique could be used over and over again, on any number of devices. In the physical world, it would be the equivalent of a master key, capable of opening hundreds of millions of locks — from restaurants and banks to stores and homes. No reasonable person would find that acceptable.

We can find no precedent for an American company being forced to expose its customers to a greater risk of attack. For years, cryptologists and national security experts have been warning against weakening encryption. Doing so would hurt only the well-meaning and law-abiding citizens who rely on companies like Apple to protect their data. Criminals and bad actors will still encrypt, using tools that are readily available to them.

The implications of the government’s demands are chilling. If the government can use the All Writs Act to make it easier to unlock your iPhone, it would have the power to reach into anyone’s device to capture their data. The government could extend this breach of privacy and demand that Apple build surveillance software to intercept your messages, access your health records or financial data, track your location, or even access your phone’s microphone or camera without your knowledge.

While we believe the FBI’s intentions are good, it would be wrong for the government to force us to build a backdoor into our products. And ultimately, we fear that this demand would undermine the very freedoms and liberty our government is meant to protect.

Tim Cook"
 
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Fight the power. I applaud Apple's efforts and would rather see them and other smart device makers cease to do business in the US than cave in to imperialism and fear-mongering.
 
Seems to me the simple solution would be for the FBI to turn over the phones in question to Apple, and ask them to decode the contents.
 
If I understand the situation correctly, the contents cannot be decoded in anything like an expeditious manner by Apple or anybody else, the encryption is too strong. What the Fed is asking Apple to do is to replace the existing OS on the phone with one that doesn't have the self-destruct safeguard. That will allow the FBI to brute-force the password protecting the data on the phone.

I'm with Apple on this. If the FBI can break it themselves, ok, but setting the precedent that Apple or anybody else needs to help the FBI spy on us is dangerous. I don't trust the courts not to abuse that precedent.
 
If I understand the situation correctly, the contents cannot be decoded in anything like an expeditious manner by Apple or anybody else, the encryption is too strong. What the Fed is asking Apple to do is to replace the existing OS on the phone with one that doesn't have the self-destruct safeguard. That will allow the FBI to brute-force the password protecting the data on the phone.

I'm with Apple on this. If the FBI can break it themselves, ok, but setting the precedent that Apple or anybody else needs to help the FBI spy on us is dangerous. I don't trust the courts not to abuse that precedent.

¨ cannot be decoded in anything like an expeditious manner by Apple ¨

I call horsepucky. If Apple wrote the encryption code, they can also decrypt it. Didn´t say it´d be easy ...

I agree, I´m with Apple too ... slippery slope.

Let´s see ... Apple vs FBI? Who wins? My money is on Apple (literally and figuratively). Heh.
 
¨ cannot be decoded in anything like an expeditious manner by Apple ¨

I call horsepucky. If Apple wrote the encryption code, they can also decrypt it. Didn´t say it´d be easy ...

I agree, I´m with Apple too ... slippery slope.

Let´s see ... Apple vs FBI? Who wins? My money is on Apple (literally and figuratively). Heh.

The issue is that with end-to-end encryption, the key is with the user, not Apple. So, the ONLY way into the phone is via fingerprint (TouchID) or passcode. In this case, the iPhone in question is iPhone 5c which does not have TouchID.

By law, a judge/police can make you use your finger to open the phone against your will. But, a judge/police cannot force you to enter in your passcode. For those with TouchID, you can use the wrong finger 5 times and a passcode must be entered; or alternatively, you can power down your iPhone (or reboot), in which case you need passcode to enter phone. And without passcode, even the best of Apple engineers cannot recover your data.
 
I fully support Apple on this. The attached image is my visual representation of what the govt will do if Apple caves or loses. The govt has been hacked more times than anyone, and can't be trusted with the information they already have.
 

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Yes, I agree with Apple. They have cooperated with the FBI to their fullest extent. The issue at hand is not specific to the San Bernardino case. The Feds want apple to rewrite the iOS code for ALL iPhones to allow someone to easily hack into them.

As it stands now, you can bypass the passcode by forcing the phone into recovery mode. What can't be bypassed is the phone's iCloud activation key which is tied directly to the end-user's Apple ID and password. The Apple ID password must be entered to access the phone even after it has been wiped and put into recovery mode. Apple themselves cannot bypass this. It was implemented as a means to protect ones personal information in the event ones device is lost/stolen.
 
Had the FBI done what they should have done in the first place and protected the "crime scene" rather than let a mob of journalists invade the terrorists apartment and contaminate any and all evidence... they would have much less need to force apple to hack the phone...

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Xv4Bl0X1plg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
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In the end the government will probably win, they will play on the sheeple. Every time something bad happens they will say, if we had this back door none of this would be happening. A back door for them is a back door for all, they can not keep it secure. I mean look at what they are doing, they are trying to take a now secure system and make it vulnerable because they can't get in. Wake up and smell the coffee.
 
By law, a judge/police can make you use your finger to open the phone against your will. But, a judge/police cannot force you to enter in your passcode. For those with TouchID, you can use the wrong finger 5 times and a passcode must be entered; or alternatively, you can power down your iPhone (or reboot), in which case you need passcode to enter phone. And without passcode, even the best of Apple engineers cannot recover your data.


Too bad it was a 5c and not a normal 5 or 5s... In that case if the FBI really want to access the phone all they would need to do is dig up the two individuals and use them to access the phone...

I would imagine that he/she would have used their right hand "index finger" rather than the thumb or other fingers due to its significance in the islamic culture...

These guys are all telling the FBI which finger to use...
 

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Had the FBI done what they should have done in the first place and protected the "crime scene" rather than let a mob of journalists invade the terrorists apartment and contaminate any and all evidence... they would have much less need to force apple to hack the phone...


Had HLS/FBI/Govt in general, done what they were supposed to do, and vet people properly, this wouldn't have happened. I know this may start a firestorm, but if California wasn't such an anti-gun state, and some of the individuals been armed, the incident wouldn't have happened either.
 
Too bad it was a 5c and not a normal 5 or 5s... In that case if the FBI really want to access the phone all they would need to do is dig up the two individuals and use them to access the phone...

So what you are saying is, if I want to keep my personal business protected I need to hang on to my iPhone 5c, I'll have Siri make a note of that...
Remarkably it has so little memory on it I am surprised anyone is able to store much of ANYTHING on a 5c.
 
Since the story is happening against a backdrop of the government seemingly being at a historical crossroad in its ability to investigate crime going forward, one can't help but ponder the potential of additional events behind the scenes.

Relatedly, I would think the government would prefer dealing with encryption built into a closed operating system where a secret mandate could remain hidden much more easily than in an open source system where the code can be audited by anyone, anywhere with the know how to do so.

Whether currents events reflect that dynamic or not, the closed vs open-source OS philosophy may be an interesting subject going forward.
 
The funny thing is people assuming that just because Apple refuses the FBI's request that means the government can't get into the phones. The amusing thing is that the public still believes that the government isn't as invasive as they really are.

Let's be completely honest here, there's the public face of the government which either has to play it's cards close to it's vest or pretend to have some semblance of following the justice system's rules that are established. Then you have the less than public face of the government, who doesn't have to follow the justice system, nor really explain themselves to the general public.

The assumption that just because the FBI is asking Apple to decrypt their products does not mean the government can't do it; it means that they need to at least appear like the are following laws and regulations set in place because the FBI is part of that "public face" of the government. Apple's security is not quantum encryption, nor is it magical unicorn powder; it's just generally better than most. Even then the belief that Apple doesn't have a back-door into their own product is also a bit too optimistic in my opinion. You don't design a system with having a backdoor or a redundancy, to fail to do so is just asking for trouble in the long run.

The fact that Apple is notorious for "bricking" their customer's products and systems because they stray too far from the "closed" ecosystem is evidence enough they keep a tight hand on the leash. This company is not some philanthropic organization designed for the betterment of humanity, this is a company that uses child labor, less than environmental production methods, needs profits to survive, and consistently copies ad releases ideas as their own, among other things. Now to be fair, that's mainly true of all corporations; but that's my point, they are not some angelic company; their a corporation seeking to make a quick buck like everyone else and as such they're going to keep their avenues open. Information sells, just because the don't publicly sell their information to the government, does not mean they don't trade information for their own benefit to trusted/verified partners (once again, this is not uncommon these days as pretty much every company does so including your own medical insurance.)

Bottom line, don't let this fool you into thinking Apple is some protective big brother; they just don't trust the government to double cross them in the business deal and it gives them good publicity. As for the government, just because the FBI "asks" for that information doesn't mean that the government can't get into the phones; it just means they need to as because otherwise evidence is thrown out in a public trial.
 
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Isn't this telling me that they(Apple) "can" get into your stuff??:shrug:
Through the Cloud backups?
 

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It is my hope that Apple will prevail in the appeal if this order, and the FBI will not be able to detect a terror cell that the San Bernadino killers were directed by, and that cell successfully pulls off a major attack killing thousands. It would be worth the sacrifice of thousands of lives to ensure the government can't look at at a phone that wasn't even owned by the killer, that the owner (San Bernadino County) gave consent to search, and that a federal judge found there was probable cause to search. One mans privacy has to be worth others' lives ..... My ideology is more important than the safety of others.
 

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