Are manual locking hubs worth it?

[DaMonkey]

I bought two AA CV's in anticipation of ripping a CV boot. They've been sitting in the garage unused for 4 years now:boxer:

That’s exactly why lol. Bc you bought them. That’s how it goes

 

[theesotericone]

Just curious (and I consider your opinion valuable - as it relates to these trucks anyway lol)...

Would you think differently if your truck was built mostly for street driving but able to make that turn off the hwy and be capable for real trails?

I daily my 4runner with a lift and the CVs are constantly working. If you drive a lot of highway miles, is it better peace of mind to hit a trail with fresh manual stubs that are smaller, or with CV that turn unnecessarily for 15k miles per year?

That said, I really don’t know if you daily your truck or if you do put many miles on it, but I do know what you do on the trail :hatsoff:

I’ve been thinking about this swap and would consider it if the swap parts cross my path. A broken CV is easy on the trail, but it just seems silly to always be turning them on the highway everyday and having to check the boots for a blown wad.

To hell with compromises. Seriously. I just wanna go fast.

I semi-daily mine. I put about 7000 a year on it. I'd say about 5000 highway and 2000 dirt is a pretty good estimate. I also wheel a little bit harder then most will.

The CV's turning isn't an issue. They are meant to. If going to manual CV's made the rig a better wheeler all around a lot more guys would be doing it. The truth is it doesn't.

If you want to have a capable daily/off-road rig I'd way rather spend that 800 bucks on a locker, or sliders, or skids, or a bumper, or tires, or just about anything that actual improves my rigs ability to wheel.

 

[jkeith.w]

I'm odd man out here, I suppose; I'm setting up both my trucks for manual hubs (against sage advice, I might add).

I've been wrong before. :shrug:

 

[theesotericone]

I'm odd man out here, I suppose; I'm setting up both my trucks for manual hubs (against sage advice, I might add).

I've been wrong before. :shrug:

I don't think there's anything wrong with locking hubs as a conversion. I don't think you'll break that many CV's. I do think you'll bust a few hubs. Like I said upthread hubs are an easy fix.

I just believe for the average weekender, which you are not, there are a lot better places to put that money to make the rig more capable. Once your rig is already fully capable and you have some extra cash go ahead and get them.

When I went to RCV CV's last year it cost me easily twice as much as going to manual hubs would have. But in that 9 months I've yet to break a CV. I've yet to snap a stub shaft and I have as bullet proof of a front drive train as you can currently get for our rigs.

Oh, and RCV doesn't make manual CV's. Just a heads up. lol

 

[TonyB66]

I don't think there's anything wrong with locking hubs as a conversion. I don't think you'll break that many CV's. I do think you'll bust a few hubs. Like I said upthread hubs are an easy fix.

I just believe for the average weekender, which you are not, there are a lot better places to put that money to make the rig more capable. Once your rig is already fully capable and you have some extra cash go ahead and get them.

When I went to RCV CV's last year it cost me easily twice as much as going to manual hubs would have. But in that 9 months I've yet to break a CV. I've yet to snap a stub shaft and I have as bullet proof of a front drive train as you can currently get for our rigs.

Oh, and RCV doesn't make manual CV's. Just a heads up. lol

A very good discussion going-on here. No right or wrong, just pros / cons to consider...

Matt - Is this what you got?

Ultimate IFS CV Axle Set for Toyota Tacoma ('95.5-'04) and 4runner ('95-'02)

 

[sleepydad]

after doing a 3" lift on the front of mine I went thru 2 sets of boots in one summer. 15K of miles driving from MN to CO and UT and doing trails.

after doing a manual swap on the front I have yet to tear boots with the same type of use. This in it'self was worth it for me. I hate re-booting those bastards.

#1 I really hate having CV grease all over the place
#2 I really hate CV grease and rebooting
#3 I want to flat tow my rig at some point

as somebody else mentioned the FROR floater kit... it's worth it for me so I can flat tow in style.

yes I know I can just disconnect the driveshaft but I think that sucks. sometimes it's not about the $ part.

 

[weekendclimber]

#3 I want to flat tow my rig at some point

as somebody else mentioned the FROR floater kit... it's worth it for me so I can flat tow in style.

yes I know I can just disconnect the driveshaft but I think that sucks. sometimes it's not about the $ part.

Or you could dual case it:madgrin:

 

[TCMach]

#3 I want to flat tow my rig at some point

as somebody else mentioned the FROR floater kit... it's worth it for me so I can flat tow in style.

yes I know I can just disconnect the driveshaft but I think that sucks. sometimes it's not about the $ part.

You could buy an entire trailer for the cost of that FROR kit. Basing that on the "chunks" kit Brian sells with additions for locking hubs and d-rotor plates to keep the e-brake. Obviously you can do it cheaper but as far as a simple comparison goes. Flat towing is cool and all, but still

 

[sleepydad]

Or you could dual case it:madgrin:

and then be breaking all the drive train all the time.

 

[sleepydad]

You could buy an entire trailer for the cost of that FROR kit. Basing that on the "chunks" kit Brian sells with additions for locking hubs and d-rotor plates to keep the e-brake. Obviously you can do it cheaper but as far as a simple comparison goes. Flat towing is cool and all, but still

here is the use case.

I like to drive offroad and visit places out in the western states. My wife likes to shop and my son likes to fish.

I don't want a huge trailer laying around and then have to deal with extra lic for it and tires and bearings and all that trailer bull shiat. I hate trailers. I own one for hauling junk around but... plus if you have a trailer then you have to find a place to put it once your at your destination.

if I'm able to flat tow to my destination then I can go drive offroad and my wife can take my pull vehicle and go shopping or spa day yes I still have to deal with the tow bar but the new ones are pretty light and should fit in the back of the T4R.

it's all a pain the back side.

being able to stay in places like telluride and rent a house for the week is fun and in my budget so... I'm old and while I love to camp out doing in for 10-15 days in a row is way to much for my old back.

what works for one person is not going to work for everybody. I realize what I'm doing is not for everybody.

 

[TCMach]

here is the use case.

it's all a pain the back side.

being able to stay in places like telluride and rent a house for the week is fun and in my budget so... I'm old and while I love to camp out doing in for 10-15 days in a row is way to much for my old back.

Probably the most accurate sentence on this thread. Nothing easy is every worth doing right?

Not to sidebar too much but I love Telluride. Its where I got married actually. I'm only three hours from there so if your ever out this way and need a wheeling buddy :hello:

Oh, and RCV doesn't make manual CV's. Just a heads up. lol

Meant to quote this earlier for informational purposes. Lotus Development does make a manual hub axle. MANUAL HUB - 3rd Gen 4Runner/1st Gen Tacoma - Single Chromoly Caged Axle - Lotus Development . Not the same but a massive upgrade over stock or parts store axles

 

[theesotericone]

A very good discussion going-on here. No right or wrong, just pros / cons to consider...

Matt - Is this what you got?

Ultimate IFS CV Axle Set for Toyota Tacoma ('95.5-'04) and 4runner ('95-'02)

Tony, that's them. Pricey and definitely not for most people but they are by far the strongest option on the market.

Meant to quote this earlier for informational purposes. Lotus Development does make a manual hub axle. MANUAL HUB - 3rd Gen 4Runner/1st Gen Tacoma - Single Chromoly Caged Axle - Lotus Development . Not the same but a massive upgrade over stock or parts store axles

My only issue with lotus is they did not redo the inner tripod. It's still stock. So by the time you get the manual hubs done and buy lotus CVs your out of pocket for at least as much as the RCV CVs. A year ago lotus was the best option but now it's not, IMO.

Again it's all preference. And my preference is making IFS as strong as possible.

 

[JWaldz]

A year ago lotus was the best option but now it's not, IMO.

Again it's all preference. And my preference is making IFS as strong as possible.

Not quite 100% true. RCV IFS axles have been out for years and years. They only just redesigned them recently.

I'm all for making IFS strong, but you should make it strong where it needs to be. I think the CV's should be the best option for your failure point. If you strengthen them, then you run the risk of breaking elsewhere, which makes trail repair not an option or a lengthy process vs just changing out an axle. This reason alone is why I haven't gone with tougher axles. It's much easier to change an axle that broke at the cages or middle shaft then deal with a busted r&p or a sheared shaft in the diff.

If you wheel correctly by keeping slower speeds and reducing binding, your chances of breaking a cv (or anything for that matter) greatly diminish. Now I'm not saying it's a fail proof plan, but it's a tried and true method. I've wheeled very hard on some oem axles for over 5 years now.

Sorry, a little off topic but I figured I'd throw my .02 in on the standard vs stronger cv's.

Back on topic, I feel the benefits of the manual hubs outweigh any drawbacks. They're a great investment (that I don't have lol).

 

[TonyB66]

Tony, that's them. Pricey and definitely not for most people but they are by far the strongest option on the market.

Thanks Matt. Sure, pricey, but for those who have forecasted the replacement of multiple OEM units over time (yes, I plan to use my rig at some point!), from that perspective, not really. Curious how yours hold-up over time, including things like the boots too...

 

[T4R_Fanatic]

Not quite 100% true. RCV IFS axles have been out for years and years. They only just redesigned them recently.

I'm all for making IFS strong, but you should make it strong where it needs to be. I think the CV's should be the best option for your failure point. If you strengthen them, then you run the risk of breaking elsewhere, which makes trail repair not an option or a lengthy process vs just changing out an axle. This reason alone is why I haven't gone with tougher axles. It's much easier to change an axle that broke at the cages or middle shaft then deal with a busted r&p or a sheared shaft in the diff.

If you wheel correctly by keeping slower speeds and reducing binding, your chances of breaking a cv (or anything for that matter) greatly diminish. Now I'm not saying it's a fail proof plan, but it's a tried and true method. I've wheeled very hard on some oem axles for over 5 years now.

Sorry, a little off topic but I figured I'd throw my .02 in on the standard vs stronger cv's.

Back on topic, I feel the benefits of the manual hubs outweigh any drawbacks. They're a great investment (that I don't have lol).

I agree I would much rather keep the breaking point at the cv rather than something harder to get to or more expensive

 

[TCMach]

A year ago lotus was the best option but now it's not, IMO.

Again it's all preference. And my preference is making IFS as strong as possible.

No disagreement here, for a real bombproof CV i think RCV is the way to go. Even the warranty is worth it, break one Lotus and you could have almost bought RCVs. If I was buying them outside of the circumstances I was given I may have gone a different route. But for those who want to swap to manual hubs its the only option currently.

I'm all for making IFS strong, but you should make it strong where it needs to be. I think the CV's should be the best option for your failure point. If you strengthen them, then you run the risk of breaking elsewhere, which makes trail repair not an option or a lengthy process vs just changing out an axle. This reason alone is why I haven't gone with tougher axles. It's much easier to change an axle that broke at the cages or middle shaft then deal with a busted r&p or a sheared shaft in the diff.

Its pretty much a anyone's guess what breaks. I've seen a guy shear his R&Ps on both diffs and the autozone axles survived. I've also seen a CV break on borderline flat ground. :noidea:
I'm sure we all have stories like that, just have to decide where you think the weak link is and go from there

 

[TonyB66]

No disagreement here, for a real bombproof CV i think RCV is the way to go. Even the warranty is worth it, break one Lotus and you could have almost bought RCVs. If I was buying them outside of the circumstances I was given I may have gone a different route. But for those who want to swap to manual hubs its the only option currently.



Its pretty much a anyone's guess what breaks. I've seen a guy shear his R&Ps on both diffs and the autozone axles survived. I've also seen a CV break on borderline flat ground. :noidea:
I'm sure we all have stories like that, just have to decide where you think the weak link is and go from there

I was wondering if there had been reported R&P failures with CV upgrades on the 3rd gen, possibly reflecting the weak link transfer concern. Have the Tacoma guys noticed such? If the R&P is sufficiently robust to where there is no noticeable difference in failure rates, I remain quite interested...

 

[AssBurns]

Just curious (and I consider your opinion valuable - as it relates to these trucks anyway lol)...

Would you think differently if your truck was built mostly for street driving but able to make that turn off the hwy and be capable for real trails?

I daily my 4runner with a lift and the CVs are constantly working. If you drive a lot of highway miles, is it better peace of mind to hit a trail with fresh manual stubs that are smaller, or with CV that turn unnecessarily for 15k miles per year?

That said, I really don’t know if you daily your truck or if you do put many miles on it, but I do know what you do on the trail :hatsoff:

I’ve been thinking about this swap and would consider it if the swap parts cross my path. A broken CV is easy on the trail, but it just seems silly to always be turning them on the highway everyday and having to check the boots for a blown wad.

To hell with compromises. Seriously. I just wanna go fast.

Maybe I would feel different if I drove it mostly on the street and didn't wheel very hard. Seems like it would be pretty expensive for not much gain. If I were to come across some manual hubs and CV's for cheap, then I'd consider it for a 95% street driven rig. I used to drive mine as a daily with about 15-20k a year and I never considered manual hubs as much of a benefit. Idk, just not something I'd really consider worth the hassle. Now if it was a serious strength upgrade, then it would be nice, but it's not.

I went a long time without tearing boots. Right when I lifted it, both boots tore. I replaced the axles and kept the originals as spares. I probably went almost 2 years and over 20k miles without a boot tearing. Now I don't drive much and break axles constantly...

and then be breaking all the drive train all the time.

[MENTION=143526]theesotericone[/MENTION] has duals and I haven't seen him break his drivetrain due to duals. Only time I saw his break was a broken driveshaft yoke due to breaking his links. Oh and some CV axles, but those would have definitely broke just as easy with single case.

here is the use case.

I like to drive offroad and visit places out in the western states. My wife likes to shop and my son likes to fish.

I don't want a huge trailer laying around and then have to deal with extra lic for it and tires and bearings and all that trailer bull shiat. I hate trailers. I own one for hauling junk around but... plus if you have a trailer then you have to find a place to put it once your at your destination.

if I'm able to flat tow to my destination then I can go drive offroad and my wife can take my pull vehicle and go shopping or spa day yes I still have to deal with the tow bar but the new ones are pretty light and should fit in the back of the T4R.

it's all a pain the back side.

being able to stay in places like telluride and rent a house for the week is fun and in my budget so... I'm old and while I love to camp out doing in for 10-15 days in a row is way to much for my old back.

what works for one person is not going to work for everybody. I realize what I'm doing is not for everybody.

Sounds like you just need a Jeep. :

No disagreement here, for a real bombproof CV i think RCV is the way to go. Even the warranty is worth it, break one Lotus and you could have almost bought RCVs. If I was buying them outside of the circumstances I was given I may have gone a different route. But for those who want to swap to manual hubs its the only option currently.



Its pretty much a anyone's guess what breaks. I've seen a guy shear his R&Ps on both diffs and the autozone axles survived. I've also seen a CV break on borderline flat ground. :noidea:
I'm sure we all have stories like that, just have to decide where you think the weak link is and go from there

I haven't personally seen any front R&P failures. Everything I've seen so far has been stub shafts, spider gears, worn bearings, CV's.

Yeah I've broken CV's multiple times on flat ground. That was caused by other issues, but still the stock CV's are super weak. I really need RCV's to keep up with [MENTION=143526]theesotericone[/MENTION]. He is always helping swap broken CV's.

 

[jkeith.w]

Maybe I would feel different if I drove it mostly on the street and didn't wheel very hard.

hahahaha - loaded statement much? lol.

 

[TCMach]

I haven't personally seen any front R&P failures. Everything I've seen so far has been stub shafts, spider gears, worn bearings, CV's.

It was pretty wild. Crossed up and a lot of skinny pedal. Opposite tires would come off the ground and wind up to 25 mph or so before he came back down and grind to a halt. The process repeated 3 or 4 times and the last time it sounded like gunshots when his tires touched back down. [MENTION=78892]Fishwerks[/MENTION] was there he can vouch lol. Link to carnage: rear diff front diff . front diff had so much crap floating around in it that it destroyed half his drain plug. Forest service took a bulldozer to that trail a year later or so and now its completely flat.