Asian Frat racist?

[Hepar]

I think you are missing the reverse. The problem is that there is an inherent assumption that certain people are racists (which in itself is racist). Are white people out to get blacks simply because of past events? Are all Germans out to get Jews simply because of the holocaust? Are Brits out to get Americans because we basically stole an entire continent from them and slaughtered their military? Are the Persians (Iranians?) out to get everyone because of previous world domination? Come on, at some point we have to move on. If we keep dwelling on the past we will never move forward. Life is too short to tip toe around.

And you're missing my point. I never called their acts racist. Throughout my initial responses, I said that I bet their intentions were never to offend. I am just saying that the roots of what they're doing do have racist connotations. I agree that we cannot dwell in the past, but that doesn't mean we should forget it. There are things that you have to say are just not ok to do and make it a point. If you do that, then people will have a much better understanding of their history and a better chance that it won't repeat itself.

 

[bofa]

And you're missing my point. I never called their acts racist. Throughout my initial responses, I said that I bet that their intentions were never to offend. I am just saying that the roots of what they're doing do have racist connotations. I agree that we cannot dwell in the past, but that doesn't mean we should forget it. There are things that you have to say are just not ok to do and make it a point. If you do that, then people will have a much better understanding of their history and a better chance that it won't repeat itself.

That just seems like a convenient way to make what was seemingly intended as a harmless act to be racist.

Lets try it this way.. What if it was a Halloween mask that looked like Jay Z and he wore that instead of face paint. Is that okay?

 

[mikebontoft]

did people even remotely make a complaint when they did a blackface bit on Family Guy?

nope. Guess we're only selectively offended.

 

[Hepar]

That just seems like a convenient way to make what was seemingly intended as a harmless act to be racist.

Lets try it this way.. What if it was a Halloween mask that looked like Jay Z and he wore that instead of face paint. Is that okay?

I would say that would be fine.

Let's look at it from this perspective. How would you imagine the reaction to be if you showed that video to a group of people who were raised in and around when blackface came to be? Would you expect them to be offended? Maybe even angry? Why should that change just because most of us weren't raised in that era?

 

[KidVermicious]

Hepar has it right. There are things that are marginal, and we should mock those who claim to be offended (see my comment in the thread about the billboard equating gun control with the abuse of Native Americans).

On the other hand, what these kids did was over the line. Several of you are in such a hurry to demonstrate your disdain for the "liberal pussification" of America that you're missing the point completely. Blackface was historically used to mock blacks because they are black, end of story. Regardless of whether those frat kids are racist at heart, their use of blackface is out of order.

 

[KidVermicious]

That just seems like a convenient way to make what was seemingly intended as a harmless act to be racist.

Lets try it this way.. What if it was a Halloween mask that looked like Jay Z and he wore that instead of face paint. Is that okay?

Yes, that's exactly the point. There's nothing wrong with pretending to be JayZ (by wearing a mask, or dressing like he does, or whatever). There's everything wrong with using blackface in that context, no matter who they're pretending to be.

 

[bofa]

I would say that would be fine.

Let's look at it from this perspective. How would you imagine the reaction to be if you showed that video to a group of people who were raised in and around when blackface came to be? Would you expect them to be offended? Maybe even angry? Why should that change just because most of us weren't raised in that era?

Exactly, it would be fine. But the reality of it is that what they did was essentially make their own "mask" to portray a character, a deliberate attempt to look like a celebrity in a relative skit.

As for your person from that era, do you think they would be offended by the Jay Z mask? If anything I'd bet some of them are more offended by the persona Jay Z himself portrays and how he influences young people in the community... but that's a different topic.

So is it your assumption that people must prove themselves not to be racists before they can be considered not to be racist? That what I'm getting from your posts.

I'm not saying to forget the past, but to hold old acts against people that were not from that time (and possibly who's parents weren't even from that time) is absurd.

The sooner we stop trying to alienate and define ourselves by race or creed, the sooner others will follow suit. I define a person on their actions and their character and hope younger generations learn to do the same.

 

[KidVermicious]

So is it your assumption that people must prove themselves not to be racists before they can be considered not to be racist? That what I'm getting from your posts.

No, not at all. Scroll up to post 4, I've never called those kids racists. I said what they did was insensitive and over the line, and I've defended the people that are offended by it, but I'm not in the frat boys heads. I don't know what motivated them to do that.

I agree that a colorblind world is absolutely ideal. It'd be great if we were in a place where skin color didn't matter. But it obviously still matters to a lot of people - some of them because they are racist, some of them because they've been affected by racism, and yes, some of them because they're just looking for something to be offended by. But the fact is, it's still a touchy subject and until it isn't, wearing blackface in that context is a fairly insensitive thing to do.

That's all I'm saying.

 

[Hepar]

Exactly, it would be fine. But the reality of it is that what they did was essentially make their own "mask" to portray a character, a deliberate attempt to look like a celebrity in a relative skit.

As for your person from that era, do you think they would be offended by the Jay Z mask? If anything I'd bet some of them are more offended by the persona Jay Z himself portrays and how he influences young people in the community... but that's a different topic.

So is it your assumption that people must prove themselves not to be racists before they can be considered not to be racist? That what I'm getting from your posts.

I'm not saying to forget the past, but to hold old acts against people that were not from that time (and possibly who's parents weren't even from that time) is absurd.

The sooner we stop trying to alienate and define ourselves by race or creed, the sooner others will follow suit. I define a person on their actions and their character and hope younger generations learn to do the same.

I definitely agree with you that we need to stop defining ourselves by race or creed. I also agree that their acts shouldn't be held against them as being racist. If anything, the people around them should be held accountable. People need to be informed and aware of the past. Sorry, but that's how I feel. History is vitally important to our future. If we all of the sudden allow those acts to be ok, it's as if they never happened in the first place. That is unacceptable.

Look at this thread and discussion for example. Everyone who is participating in it or who are taking the time to read it are now aware (if they weren't before) of some of the history of blackface. Maybe even typing it into google.

As far as the episode of Family Guy, I've never seen the show, so I can't speak for it.

 

[bofa]

No, not at all. Scroll up to post 4, I've never called those kids racists. I said what they did was insensitive and over the line, and I've defended the people that are offended by it, but I'm not in the frat boys heads. I don't know what motivated them to do that.

I agree that a colorblind world is absolutely ideal. It'd be great if we were in a place where skin color didn't matter. But it obviously still matters to a lot of people - some of them because they are racist, some of them because they've been affected by racism, and yes, some of them because they're just looking for something to be offended by. But the fact is, it's still a touchy subject and until it isn't, wearing blackface in that context is a fairly insensitive thing to do.

That's all I'm saying.

Right we don't know what motivated them aside from what the obvious intent of the video was. I guess in my eyes it's no different than a 10 year old in world geography mispronouncing the country Niger as the word with two g's in it. It's innocent, unintended to offend, and only those that choose to be offended would make a big deal out of it.

 

[Hepar]

Right we don't know what motivated them aside from what the obvious intent of the video was. I guess in my eyes it's no different than a 10 year old in world geography mispronouncing the country Niger as the word with two g's in it. It's innocent, unintended to offend, and only those that choose to be offended would make a big deal out of it.

Agreed there too. But I think the response to the child would not be to get offended, but to explain and inform to them the difference between the two and why it is important to distinguish them. It is not to pretend that they never said it.

 

[bofa]

I definitely agree with you that we need to stop defining ourselves by race or creed. I also agree that their acts shouldn't be held against them as being racist. If anything, the people around them should be held accountable. People need to be informed and aware of the past. Sorry, but that's how I feel. History is vitally important to our future. If we all of the sudden allow those acts to be ok, it's as if they never happened in the first place. That is unacceptable.

Look at this thread and discussion for example. Everyone who is participating in it or who are taking the time to read it are now aware (if they weren't before) of some of the history of blackface. Maybe even typing it into google.

As far as the episode of Family Guy, I've never seen the show, so I can't speak for it.

I totally support educating people and knowing your past. I disagree, however, that dubious actions in the past should infinitely villainize innocent actions in the future, especially where there is no obvious intent.

Did I miss the family guy reference? Was that someone else's post?

 

[Hepar]

I totally support educating people and knowing your past. I disagree, however, that dubious actions in the past should infinitely villainize innocent actions in the future, especially where there is no obvious intent.

Did I miss the family guy reference? Was that someone else's post?

I never said nor do I think that we should villainize them. Just that they need to be aware and informed. If they do become aware and informed of the history of their acts and they do it again? Then my reaction would be different.

And yeah, that was a response to a different post. Someone earlier said that Family Guy did something about blackface.

 

[Dusty Driftwood]

What you guys are missing is that there are certain acts that are indicative of a certain point in history. Points in history where certain races were held down and treated as less than human. The most powerful results of racism comes when there is power behind it. Why is there a different reaction when it's say the Wayans putting on white face paint? Because it can only be in fun. The power still lies on the other side of the field.

I think we get that, but only because we heard about it in History class. I'm 33 and my parents are in their late 50s, early 60s. We never owned another human, told them to sit at the back of the bus or kept them from drinking out of our water fountains. I'm not naive enough to believe that there isn't still racism in America, but I think a majority of it is reversed against whites. People are so hell bent on making sure that everyone is treated equally that they go out of their way to offer special circumstances to everyone except white people. There is no affirmative action to get white people jobs. There are no scholarships for being white. In fact, if you are a white male in America, your life is currently harder than it has to be because the world hold you responsible for all racial discrimination, sexism and general wrong doing of our ancestors.

did people even remotely make a complaint when they did a blackface bit on Family Guy?

nope. Guess we're only selectively offended.

People have also (basically) stopped complaining about South Park too because they know their rants fall on deaf ears and no one is going to do anything about it. So they move on to the next big thing to get all hot and bothered about. I wouldn't say people are selectively offended, just that they are only offended about things that they can get some press out of to show the world what righteous people they are. Or, maybe that should be self-riteous...

Exactly, it would be fine. But the reality of it is that what they did was essentially make their own "mask" to portray a character, a deliberate attempt to look like a celebrity in a relative skit.

As for your person from that era, do you think they would be offended by the Jay Z mask? If anything I'd bet some of them are more offended by the persona Jay Z himself portrays and how he influences young people in the community... but that's a different topic.

So is it your assumption that people must prove themselves not to be racists before they can be considered not to be racist? That what I'm getting from your posts.

I'm not saying to forget the past, but to hold old acts against people that were not from that time (and possibly who's parents weren't even from that time) is absurd.

The sooner we stop trying to alienate and define ourselves by race or creed, the sooner others will follow suit. I define a person on their actions and their character and hope younger generations learn to do the same.

All of this blackface talk is silly in my opinion. If people were making jokes about the bombing in Boston, some would say it is too soon and "off limits" out of respect for the victims. But the blackface thing happened so long ago that I don't see a problem with using it in this context. Which, I believe was an attempt at humor. Is the original message behind blackface "wrong?" Sure, but we live in America and enjoy things like hamburgers, baseball and freedom of speech. Are these guys immature? Yes. Insensitive? Sure. Stupid? Maybe. But, it is their right to be as immature, insensitive and stupid as they want, whether we like it or not. Was it in poor taste to record and put this on the web? Of course, but we live in the digital age and this is just part of society now and people need to come to grips with that. However, at the rate we're headed, you won't be able to watch a few minute video (like this) without doubling the length of the video due to all the disclaimers about not intending to offend this person or that person. Everyone in this country needs to unbunch their panties and realize that they are using their freedom of speech to complain about someone else exercising the same right to freedom of speech. Again, the vicious circle.

 

[Hepar]

So because we didn't live through it, it's ok to dismiss it?

We can agree to disagree there. Many of my family had everything taken away during WWII. My father was born in an interment camp. Did that effect me directly? No. But I am going to learn about it, remember it and pass it one whenever I can. It doesn't mean I am anti-anything. Just aware.

 

[Hepar]

And just to add a little personal history. I had no idea any of the interment camps existed for the longest time until the 7th grade. We had to do a family history project and I came to my teacher because I felt my family was boring and had nothing to offer. She asked me if my family had any experience with internment in WWII and I said, "what?"

I asked my mom and she sat down with me for hours telling me stories. I was jaw-dropped. No one in my family had ever mentioned anything. Nor is it discussed much in Japanese homes as a whole. It's a culture based on "face" and anything that might degrade that is not discussed. To me, that is a history that should be discussed and will continue to be discussed as far as I'm concerned. So, I can see a family who was raised in the blackface environment wanting to make sure that history is continually discussed and not bypassed.

 

[Dusty Driftwood]

So because we didn't live through it, it's ok to dismiss it?

We can agree to disagree there. Many of my family had everything taken away during WWII. My father was born in an interment camp. Did that effect me directly? No. But I am going to learn about it, remember it and pass it one whenever I can. It doesn't mean I am anti-anything. Just aware.

I didn't mean dismiss it as if it didn't happen or wasn't important. It is important to learn what mistakes we made in the past to prevent us from making the same ones in the future.
My point, which someone else also brought up, is not to dwell on the negativity of the past. Horrible things were done by people that have been dead for years.
I'm not saying that everything is a joke, or ok to joke about. But, I think the video in questions is a "victimless crime." I'm sure it would make some elders shake their heads and cause unpleasant memories, but they're not really hurting anything, just being dumb kids.
The irony here is that blackface revolves around acceptance, or lack of acceptance of those who are different. Through mistakes like this, we've learned the error of our ways and (now) accept all humans. So, now, these kids make a stupid video and we don't accept them. And, people think the lack of acceptance is ok because we're judging their behavior rather than the color of their skin.

 

[Hepar]

I didn't mean dismiss it as if it didn't happen or wasn't important. It is important to learn what mistakes we made in the past to prevent us from making the same ones in the future.
My point, which someone else also brought up, is not to dwell on the negativity of the past. Horrible things were done by people that have been dead for years.
I'm not saying that everything is a joke, or ok to joke about. But, I think the video in questions is a "victimless crime." I'm sure it would make some elders shake their heads and cause unpleasant memories, but they're not really hurting anything, just being dumb kids.
The irony here is that blackface revolves around acceptance, or lack of acceptance of those who are different. Through mistakes like this, we've learned the error of our ways and (now) accept all humans. So, now, these kids make a stupid video and we don't accept them. And, people think the lack of acceptance is ok because we're judging their behavior rather than the color of their skin.

Agreed 100% to not dwell on the negativity. I think where we're getting confused is on how the kids themselves are being viewed. I don't believe that we shouldn't accept them in any way or place a lot of anger or blame onto them as if they knew what they were doing was wrong. I do believe that they should be educated as to what they were doing and the history behind it. Then, like I said before, if they chose to do it again, then that would net a different reaction from me.

I do not feel like it should be passed over as kids being kids or as being harmless because then others would start to see it as such too and continue on without understanding what it is they either saw or did.

 

[Hepar]

How can we expect the next generations to learn from history if they are unaware of it?

 

[Net4n6]

I just watched the video. What's racist about the video? Please educate me.