rebelbowtie
New member
I'm going to say with a read as mild as the AT3 the road noise is not noticeable
AT Tires
- Thread starter 1engineer
- Start date
characterzero
New member
1engineer
Moderator
I Just drove 1200 miles on vacation this past week. No additional road noise than OEM. With that said, different surfaces create different road noises from tires. New pavement, worn pavement, worn concrete, grooved pavement etc. BTW these tires did really good in downpours on interstate. They also did fine in dirt/sand mix and sand alone. Not as good as paddle tires but much better than OEM. In the 6K since I have installed these tires I am down about two tenths of a mile per gallon in regards to efficiency, or aout 1%. I currently get 20.6 mpg during "summer gas" use. I currently average 19.9 mpg after 35K miles for total mpg. This is a good tire so far and after this winter I will be able to fully review it after driving in snow.
Tread pattern, not tread depth is the root cause of road noise. Repetitive tread blocks with no deviation on pattern is worse than breaking it up or staggering tread blocks. Ever wonder why tread design is so random? It would be more logical for a tire to look like an ATV tire for best traction but the road noise would be a deal breaker for sure. Also it does not matter much the depth or width of grooves just pattern. making depth of grooves deeper brings about structural problems instead of noise issues.
I also noticed you posted, and I paraphrase, "LT tires that are heavier do not get worse mpg than P rated tires. My buddy and I took a trip..."
You are wrong. Either you did not calculate correctly or your driving styles were diffferent, which is most likely. In your spare time look up the effects of accelerating and decelerating additional unsprung mass in regards to a vehicle. You WILL lose efficiency. How much depends on many factors.
Also you posted about not using P rated tires to tow. Again, that is wrong. P rated tires are just fine to tow with IF YOU STAY WITHIN LOAD LIMITS. If you don't and overload it they will cause problems, same as if you overload an LT rated tire.
rebelbowtie
New member
Driving the exact same road at the same speed you know the speed limit, within a few car lengths are not varying driving styles. I won't even try to act like I understand a fraction of what you do but I think sometimes people as highly educated as yourself get lost in the numbers and math. We can agree to disagree but LT tires will always be better suited for towing than P metric since they were designed for severe duty and passenger tires were designed to roll a car around.
rebelbowtie
New member
Also doesn't take an engineering degree to divide miles driven by gallons burned...
homeyclaus
New member
More mass = more energy needed to accelerate and decelerate.
LT tires offer higher maximum loads, and in order to achieve that they are heavier.
In layman's terms, if you're not accelerating or decelerating a lot, you'll get similar mileage from tires with similar rolling resistance. In 'city driving' the difference can be substantial.
The heavier construction generally results in a tire with a stiffer side wall and tread, and this heavier construction also improves puncture resistance. Some people prefer the "feel" this gives a vehicle, but it's just that, a preference. There are pros and cons in terms of traction as well, but suffice to say that both P-series and LT series are a compromise.
As far as towing goes, this has been beat to death. The GVWR of the 4runner is less than almost any set of P-series tire in stock size. My Nitto P-series can carry almost the entire GCWR, in fact. If you're overloading those tires, you have seriously overloaded the vehicle itself, and tire load will be the least of your problems. Unless you must have the "advantages" discussed in the previous paragraph either because you need them or because it makes you feel better, you're wasting money and fuel.
1engineer
Moderator
I'll agree to disagree. I do get "lost" in numbers and that's a good thing as numbers never give their "opinion" lol. They are what they are.
Following your logic on tires then if I am going to put a winch on my 4Runner then I will put a 40K drum and motor with some 6X37 EIPS 1 1/4" wire rope. Never mind my vehicle weighs less than 3 tons because heavier duty is better right?
My point is the P rated tire is just fine for pulling within limits. Now, Harper goingthrough those big thorns like they grow in Texas probably needs Kevlar sidewalls to keep from poking a hole in the tire but LT will give him more protection than P on the sidewall.
rebelbowtie
New member
I would recommend EEIPS over EIPS you can never be too safe
JB.
New member
"LTs were designed for severe duty while requiring more air pressure and passenger tires were designed to roll a car around at higher speeds and with generally better road traction."
I know you're busy with your posting and all, so I completed that for you.
Last edited:
DannyLlama
Elite Member
1engineer
Moderator
Just a quick update:
I now have over 8K on the Cooper AT/3 tires. I drove over 2,000 miles last week (interstate) and topped it off with a 22 mile trail ride.
Efficiency:
I kept the stock size and load rating when I replaced my OEM tire. The Coopers are over an inch wider though across the tread so I expected a slight decrease in mpg's. I am pleasantly suprised to see no measurable efficiency drop as compared to overall mpg from last year. I try to take out all variables of seasonal driving (winter warm up, gas blend, etc) and I am pleased to report I am getting the same mpg as last summer or about 20 mpg overall.
Road noise and Wear:
The road noise is not any more or less than the OEM even with the AT lug pattern. As tires wear they get progressively louder but so far these have been fine. Wear after 8K is nominal. I will rotate for the first time very soon even though I see no visual ques of edge wear.
Traction:
I have not had then in the snow yet. I can say with confidence the mud and dirt traction is great. During my excursion this past weekend we were on a narrow section of trail, off camber going uphill over loose rock. The left side was the "high" side and the right side (wife's side) was the "low" side with an 800 foot drop to the river. She looked out the window and then looked at me and said "Do you have it in four wheel drive?" I told her no (as there was no wheelspin) and she kindly asked me to engage whatever I needed to to assure her there would be no slippage over the cliff. I laughed and put it in 4HI. On the return trip out when we passed that section I could understand the apprehension as it was really close.
Conclusion:
The only thing I can even complain a little about is these tires like to hold small gravels after being offroad. Really no different than any other tire I suppose. Again, for the price these are some of the better tires I have purchased so far.
I now have over 8K on the Cooper AT/3 tires. I drove over 2,000 miles last week (interstate) and topped it off with a 22 mile trail ride.
Efficiency:
I kept the stock size and load rating when I replaced my OEM tire. The Coopers are over an inch wider though across the tread so I expected a slight decrease in mpg's. I am pleasantly suprised to see no measurable efficiency drop as compared to overall mpg from last year. I try to take out all variables of seasonal driving (winter warm up, gas blend, etc) and I am pleased to report I am getting the same mpg as last summer or about 20 mpg overall.
Road noise and Wear:
The road noise is not any more or less than the OEM even with the AT lug pattern. As tires wear they get progressively louder but so far these have been fine. Wear after 8K is nominal. I will rotate for the first time very soon even though I see no visual ques of edge wear.
Traction:
I have not had then in the snow yet. I can say with confidence the mud and dirt traction is great. During my excursion this past weekend we were on a narrow section of trail, off camber going uphill over loose rock. The left side was the "high" side and the right side (wife's side) was the "low" side with an 800 foot drop to the river. She looked out the window and then looked at me and said "Do you have it in four wheel drive?" I told her no (as there was no wheelspin) and she kindly asked me to engage whatever I needed to to assure her there would be no slippage over the cliff. I laughed and put it in 4HI. On the return trip out when we passed that section I could understand the apprehension as it was really close.
Conclusion:
The only thing I can even complain a little about is these tires like to hold small gravels after being offroad. Really no different than any other tire I suppose. Again, for the price these are some of the better tires I have purchased so far.
Attachments
Last edited:
philsey
New member
1E - enjoyed your update. I had to smile at this part; "She looked out the window and then looked at me and said "Do you have it in four wheel drive?" I told her no (as there was no wheelspin) and she kindly asked me to engage whatever I needed to to assure her there would be no slippage over the cliff, as I was reminded of my first wife. In far less stressful situations, she'd have had footprints one inch deep in the dash, and claw marks imbedded in the door pulls.
stanleybb50
New member
Fantastic update indeed. I'm planning on throwing a set of these on my ride in November or December this year.
Can't wait! With my 2/1 lift, these tires will finish off the look with the 265/70/17 vs the stock 265/65/17's on my 4th Gen.
Great to hear that they're wearing well too!
Can't wait! With my 2/1 lift, these tires will finish off the look with the 265/70/17 vs the stock 265/65/17's on my 4th Gen.
Great to hear that they're wearing well too!
bofa
New member
My question as well. 1engineer did you consider the AT/P and pick the AT/3 for some reason or was it not part of your search?
DannyLlama
Elite Member
1Engineer should change title to 1TireExpert 
1engineer
Moderator
I think the Cooper AT/P is the same as the Cooper AT/3 and has been privately branded for Discount Tire. They look the same, the specs are the same and you cannot find a "AT/P" on Cooper's website and you cannot find "AT/3" on Discount Tire's website.
Companies private label products for large customers all the time. Tires, oil filters and other automotive generic components are private labeled if the sales opportunity is large enough.
1Engineer should change title to 1TireExpert
Thanks but I know just a little about tires. One of the members, I think JB, posted a link awhile back to an engineer's blog that was authored by a real tire engineer. This guy has been designing tires for a long time and there is some very good information there.
I will update this review whenever I have some good data on snow performance.
1engineer
Moderator
*UPDATE*UPDATE*UPDATE*
Cooper AT3 Snow Performance Update
Tire Milage: 15,000 miles
Conditions: 17+ inches of heavy wet snow 28 degrees and still snowing.
I drove about 15 miles this morning in these conditions. Roads had not been plowed but there was a trail down the middle of the road. Whenever meeting oncoming traffic (not many) you would have to get out of that "trail" over into the deep stuff. The tires performed well. Not as good as studs or chains but as good as any AT tires I have owned. Tread clearing was good and braking was good as well. As anyone who has driven in snow knows that if you keep it slow and steady and leave plenty of distance you will be fine. I did stop and start a few times just to judge performance (there was nobody much on the roads anyway) and the 4Runner gained traction well under hard acceleration wit minimal wheel spin. I did spin somewhat in one spot though. I had stopped at an intersection and the snow was very deep. I went to pull forward and spun quite a bit but I was probably high centered on loose snow at that particular time.
After now having these tires on dry, wet, dirt, mud and now snow I will say these tires are a good choice for those wanting an all around AT tire. Are these the best? No, not in any specific category I just listed but as I said they are a fine choice for all conditions.
Cooper AT3 Snow Performance Update
Tire Milage: 15,000 miles
Conditions: 17+ inches of heavy wet snow 28 degrees and still snowing.
I drove about 15 miles this morning in these conditions. Roads had not been plowed but there was a trail down the middle of the road. Whenever meeting oncoming traffic (not many) you would have to get out of that "trail" over into the deep stuff. The tires performed well. Not as good as studs or chains but as good as any AT tires I have owned. Tread clearing was good and braking was good as well. As anyone who has driven in snow knows that if you keep it slow and steady and leave plenty of distance you will be fine. I did stop and start a few times just to judge performance (there was nobody much on the roads anyway) and the 4Runner gained traction well under hard acceleration wit minimal wheel spin. I did spin somewhat in one spot though. I had stopped at an intersection and the snow was very deep. I went to pull forward and spun quite a bit but I was probably high centered on loose snow at that particular time.
After now having these tires on dry, wet, dirt, mud and now snow I will say these tires are a good choice for those wanting an all around AT tire. Are these the best? No, not in any specific category I just listed but as I said they are a fine choice for all conditions.
