At wits' end: yes another highway vibration thread!

[96LTDrus]

Yes yes, I've searched high and low on here, yotatech, ih8mud, etc. I've found other folks with similar sounding symptoms but there never seems to be a universal fix.

The symptom: vibrations felt in steering wheel at 60-75 mph and more deeply, sort of towards the firewall of the truck, not necessarily in the left or right corners like it would feel with an unbalanced wheel. Seems to come and go, somewhat related to hitting bumps in the road maybe? Also, I feel a bit of steering shake when braking, but only at high speeds, never at anything below 55mph.

The truck: 1996 Limited, Tacoma 'star' wheels with fresh General Altimax snow tires, balanced at the Toyota dealer specifically per the TSB at my request (although I didn't physically see them do it). 1 year old KYB front shocks, poly steering rack bushings (these cut the severity of the vibration a lot), tundra 199mm brake upgrade with Brembo rotors and Advics pads. Rear shocks are Monroe air adjustable, rear springs are Moog replacements. Truck sits at about a stock 99's level with the rear shocks aired up to 45 psi. Front end has been checked and rechecked and seems to be tight as a drum (lbjs, tie rods, bushings)

When I first bought the truck 2 summers ago it would get terrible bouts of vibrations, like an increasing resonance frequency. The new shocks, rebalancing the original wheels at a Toyota place, and finally replacing steering rack bushings seemed to fix things for a while... but I'm noticing the vibration is back, although nowhere as strong. About the severity of a somewhat poorly balanced wheel. I've also checked all of the u joints on the truck and they seem to be in fine shape, no binding. I grease the driveline every oil change.

Here are my suspects:

Tire balance: Local dealer tech was in a hurry and didn't balance it on the Haweka as I requested. My other set of wheels (General Grabber HTS on stock split spoke 16s) were balanced at the same dealer and the symptoms are identical.
Front CV axles: the ones on the truck are the parts store variety, probably swapped on by the PO when the OE axle boots tore. These could be unbalanced?

Driveshaft: double cardan joint? Needs rebalancing?

I'm just getting pretty frustrated chasing this problem down, I love the truck otherwise but I just can't stand that vibration on the highway on long road trips, especially given its erratic nature. Some days it seems like its gone, then I'll hit a bump or something and its back!

 

[Asaspades93]

Chexk rear most u joint for play. Easy to check

 

[Asaspades93]

Skipped over the part where you said that, sorry. Can't edit from my phone

 

[gamefreakgc]

The steering shake while braking is most likely rotors that are warped. You'll notice this the most at high speeds. A lot of people do the Tundra swap when changing the rotors to eliminate this from happening again.

 

[96LTDrus]

Regarding driveshafts,

Could me missing a driveshaft lubrication last oil change be a source of vibration, some way, somehow?

 

[96LTDrus]

The steering shake while braking is most likely rotors that are warped. You'll notice this the most at high speeds. A lot of people do the Tundra swap when changing the rotors to eliminate this from happening again.

Please re-read my first post, I have the 199mm Tundra brake upgrade, all new Brembo rotors and good quality pads. I suppose if the pads were bedded in wrong, that could be causing that slight shake I experience now. Rear drums and shoes are also new and well adjusted.

 

[gamefreakgc]

Please re-read my first post, I have the 199mm Tundra brake upgrade, all new Brembo rotors and good quality pads. I suppose if the pads were bedded in wrong, that could be causing that slight shake I experience now. Rear drums and shoes are also new and well adjusted.

My bad, I read too fast. However vibration at high speeds when braking is still a brake issue, most commonly the rotors. There's only so many parts involved in the braking system.

A comment on drive shaft, greasing it every oil change is more than enough. Unless you've missed one zerk fitting every single time and isolating a joint, that's not likely the issue. Unless of course, your drive line was bad to begin with and has been a source of vibration from the beginning.

 

[96LTDrus]

My bad, I read too fast. However vibration at high speeds when braking is still a brake issue, most commonly the rotors. There's only so many parts involved in the braking system.

A comment on drive shaft, greasing it every oil change is more than enough. Unless you've missed one zerk fitting every single time and isolating a joint, that's not likely the issue. Unless of course, your drive line was bad to begin with and has been a source of vibration from the beginning.

Yeah you're right on both points I figure, I'm just grabbing at straws at this point :sobbing: I'm extra pissed about the brakes since I put like $500 into them at this point between the front and back. Maybe resurfacing the rotors or even just some hard stops could clean them up...

But the main issue is definitely the shake. I initially got a balance at Discount Tire and insisted that they use the proper methods and they just nodded their heads and screwed it up. After I got them rebalanced for the third time and talked to the manager, he got a little nasty with me and sent me on my way with a refund. I've reiterated to my Toyota dealer what exactly needed to be done, the exact TSB number and everything and they insisted they have the right stuff. Sure enough on my split spokes them balancing eliminated some consistent vibes I'd been feeling at exactly 70 mph, but the 'random' shakes still come and go.

 

[JRZEE2000TR4LTD]

Maybe that loose slide shaft problem on the steering shaft some guys have had.

 

[SilverRidgeRunner1]

Yeah you're right on both points I figure, I'm just grabbing at straws at this point :sobbing: I'm extra pissed about the brakes since I put like $500 into them at this point between the front and back. Maybe resurfacing the rotors or even just some hard stops could clean them up...

But the main issue is definitely the shake. I initially got a balance at Discount Tire and insisted that they use the proper methods and they just nodded their heads and screwed it up. After I got them rebalanced for the third time and talked to the manager, he got a little nasty with me and sent me on my way with a refund. I've reiterated to my Toyota dealer what exactly needed to be done, the exact TSB number and everything and they insisted they have the right stuff. Sure enough on my split spokes them balancing eliminated some consistent vibes I'd been feeling at exactly 70 mph, but the 'random' shakes still come and go.

I have the same exact problem so kinda curious were this go.

 

[96LTDrus]

Okay so I drove a nice 15 mile loop of interstate to further diagnose the issue. Unlike what I've experienced in the past, the shake right now was very consistent rather than coming and going, and started at about 65mph and increased as speed grew to 75mph+. I got home and swapped the driver's front with the driver's rear wheel and went for another drive. This time there was a smaller shake, and it only started at 70mph and lasted until 73mph or so. Again, it was consistent not occasional. I think this confirms my theory that the dealer did a poor job of balancing. I'm calling them up tomorrow to set up an appointment and physically inspect the machines they use before I agree to anything, as well as bringing a printout of TSB SU002-96.

I've heard of other folks taking their T4Rs to the Toyota dealer for balancing and it turned out the dealer didn't use the Haweka adapter...

 

[Scramble]

We sure do get a lot of vibrations from various places on what a lot of people say is the greatest SUV ever made, including me.

 

[lgc285]

saw you have the tundra breaks. no expert here but just to share my own experience. I had fairly significant vibrations at/around 65mph but no issues when braking. changed my front breaks, rotors and pads, not because of vibrations but because they needed it. (stock size, powerstop rotors ceramic pads) and have virtually zero shaking at any speed. hoping it stays that way..

 

[chimpy]

I am getting vibration around 55-60MPH and it goes away at 65MPH. I was always told that if you can "drive thru" the vibration, it was tire related.:noidea:

 

[96LTDrus]

We sure do get a lot of vibrations from various places on what a lot of people say is the greatest SUV ever made, including me.

I think it is basically inherent to the design: a fairly light body (for an SUV) suspended very high up in the air (again, relative to most other stock SUVs), with large tires from the factory. It is rather frustrating. Like I said I adore my 4Runner and it has been a great ownership experience so far, but these vibrations can get very frustrating. I am strongly considering buying aftermarket hub centric wheels to hopefully avoid all of these balancing issues in the future.

I've scheduled another round of balancing at the same dealer, I'm bringing the TSB printout with me and will hopefully confirm with my own two eyes that their machines are properly equipped.

 

[jgue467]

OP - you're right, light - high - and big tires don't help. But it still should be Smooth, I know cuz mine is. But it did take multiple attempts at discount tire to get the balance right. What amazed me was seeing how much different weight/location each balancing was. Another thing to consider is are the tires absolutely Round? Luck!

 

[JRZEE2000TR4LTD]

I think it is basically inherent to the design: a fairly light body (for an SUV) suspended very high up in the air (again, relative to most other stock SUVs), with large tires from the factory. It is rather frustrating. Like I said I adore my 4Runner and it has been a great ownership experience so far, but these vibrations can get very frustrating. I am strongly considering buying aftermarket hub centric wheels to hopefully avoid all of these balancing issues in the future.

I've scheduled another round of balancing at the same dealer, I'm bringing the TSB printout with me and will hopefully confirm with my own two eyes that their machines are properly equipped.

If it was a design flaw, in the manner you describe, then everyone would have the vibration.

I've been in hundreds of garages including Pep Boys, Sams Club Walmart and all the major tire chain centers (I repaired balancers, alignment machines etc) and I will tell you that 90% of them never use the Haweka adapter for lugcentric wheels. When I had mine balanced at a Mr Tire here in NJ, they didn't use the adapter. I have no vibration at all. You can get a good balance using the cones (at least you can on my 5 spoke rims because they have a bevel on the back) you just have to back cone instead of front coning - which almost every tire tech does. I believe you have other problems. See my previous post.

 

[96LTDrus]

If it was a design flaw, in the manner you describe, then everyone would have the vibration.

I've been in hundreds of garages including Pep Boys, Sams Club Walmart and all the major tire chain centers (I repaired balancers, alignment machines etc) and I will tell you that 90% of them never use the Haweka adapter for lugcentric wheels. When I had mine balanced at a Mr Tire here in NJ, they didn't use the adapter. I have no vibration at all. You can get a good balance using the cones (at least you can on my 5 spoke rims because they have a bevel on the back) you just have to back cone instead of front coning - which almost every tire tech does. I believe you have other problems. See my previous post.

Not so much a flaw in that every truck suffers from vibrations, moreso that the 4Runners are more susceptible to this issue than other cars both due to the physics of big heavy tires on a lighter truck with raised suspension, and the lug centric design of the wheels. Toyota wouldn't have released a TSB on the matter and there wouldn't be endless threads about vibrations due to wheel balancing if it wasn't a very real problem.

I called the service adviser that I'm scheduled with this Saturday, I specifically picked an older guy from their crew, and sure enough he said they have the correct equipment, but the issue was probably the lube tech just didn't bother to use it. He sort of implied that a lot of the younger service advisers don't have a clue and didn't follow up on my earlier specific request for the Haweka to be used. And this makes sense, when I got these tires mounted I was stuck late at the dealer and they were really backed up. I think they were just cranking through all of their 'standard' work as quick as possible and just threw the wheels on the standard cones rather than bothering setting up for the Haweka. In fact they gave me a huge discount on the mounting due to how long I was stuck at the dealership for (2.5 hours). We'll see!

 

[96LTDrus]

I don't think it's a loose slide shaft, as that isn't itself a SOURCE of vibrations, it merely allows for them to get worse and be more noticeable if they are already present. Much like me replacing the steering rack bushings cut down on the severity of the vibrations I was experiencing. I think it is important to make that distinction.

 

[JRZEE2000TR4LTD]

OP - you're right, light - high - and big tires don't help. But it still should be Smooth, I know cuz mine is. But it did take multiple attempts at discount tire to get the balance right. What amazed me was seeing how much different weight/location each balancing was. Another thing to consider is are the tires absolutely Round? Luck!

This is a classic indicator that either the wheel asy wasn't mounted properly on the machine, especially if the location of the weight changed significantly. (if this was the case I would really be thinking something was wrong with the weight position encoder) There's going to be "remount error" - putting a balanced tire on a machine and just spinning it up to see the balance - which really shouldn't be more than .5oz difference and relatively the same location. Either they mounted the tire crooked causing excessive runout, some other operator error like measuring the rim diameter or spacing, the rim was bent (again causing excessive runout), or something was wrong with the balancing machine itself (cones, calibration etc)