Need Help Diagnosing Front Suspension Issue

[Moist]

I am getting to the end of my rope here trying to figure out what this is.

It's not a major issue and is very driveable, just annoying.

The Problem:

The steering has an awful tendency to wander in random directions. It's never severe and never warrants more than 5-10 degrees of countersteer to keep it going in a straight line, but it changes which direction it's pulling as it drives along. Never sudden shifts, very gradual and almost not noticeable.
The steering feels quite heavy and does absolutely nothing for maybe -5 to +5 degrees of rotation.

Other possibly related oddities

The front wheels are cambered negative, but when load is taken off of them they camber slightly positive.
There is very noticeable bump steer when the front wheels interact with something. Again not severe, but noticeable.
Tires are wearing on the inside of the tire which is consistent with negative camber.
Front end clunk when driving in reverse from the front end. (Most likely not suspension but it's worth noting)
Every once in a while the car creaks from the front suspension, but it's only usually after it's sat for a few days.


What I've done to try and diagnose the issue

I have jacked the front of the car up and checked for play. There is absolutely nothing other than a minor side to side play in just the steering that doesn't make it's way to the wheel (It moves one wheel only unless you really pull on it, then both wheels begin to steer)

Ball joints look good, Tie rod ends are old but otherwise fine. No cracks, boots are fine.

I have also done some "loaded" tests where I compress the front suspension and there is no difference.

Springs and shocks are old and a little softer than they used to be, but there is very little bouncing and feel good otherwise. The front springs have sagged considerably and I've lost somewhere around an inch of clearance.

No weird noises going over bumps. Recently had an alignment and is holding it very well. (still wanders)

The power steering pump is fine. It's old but is in good working order. The power steering fluid is old but it's leaking at the reservoir inlet enough I have to add more every 2 or so months.

The only weird thing I have found is that the inner tie rod ends have a small amount of power steering fluid in them. It corrodes the boots faster, but I just replaced them before they burnt through. The leak from the steering rack is incredibly slow.

I have checked the steering column and there is a small amount of play towards the wheel. U joints seem fine otherwise.

It did have the front right wheel ripped off at the knuckle by the last owner, but the auto body shop only recommended knuckle, CV axle, and tie rod replacement.


I'm really not sure where to go from here. It still isn't a huge deal, just makes dealing with the wind a little more stressful. Thanks!

 

[Moist]

Additionally, the power steering smells burnt. It blackens very quickly. It will decompose from the pinkish color to a jet black in about 6 months.
It won't let me edit the post to add this so I'll send it as a comment.

 

[VortepJ]

What condition are the tires in? That can really affect that kind of thing. Have you put a string on the wheels to get an idea of where your toe is? Have you checked the rack and pinion bolts? I supposed it could be sliding back and forth, there is a small slot of the holes.

 

[Moist]

What condition are the tires in? That can really affect that kind of thing. Have you put a string on the wheels to get an idea of where your toe is? Have you checked the rack and pinion bolts? I supposed it could be sliding back and forth, there is a small slot of the holes.

Tires are in great shape, rotated regularly and have plenty of tread. Balanced recently too.

I haven't done toe test, I can do that once this rain lets up.

As for the bolts, which ones would you be talking about? Would it be the one that connects the grommet and the bracket?
I've added a photo I ripped off of another thread.

If I had to guess though they're most likely rust welded to the bracket.

 

[4R005]

Power steering fluid should not be going from pink to black color-wise and smell bad in 6 months. In a good working system fluid change interval @ 30k miles ( that's when I change mine '05 4R Ltd AWD w/V8 and fluid was only slightly darker vs new ). I would suspect the pump is on its last leg ( shearing fluid from worn pump components, raising temp of fluid & blackening it ). A heavy steering effort can also suggest pump is not producing rated pressure to assist.
There should also be no side to side ( near zero free movement of steering wheel w/engine off ) which is an indication of a steering system in optimum operation i.e. outer tie rods to rack to steering wheel. Toyota service manual specs a max movement of 1/2" of steering wheel rotation from normal wear & tear. My 2 cents.

 

[ifitzit1]

It sounds like something is amiss with your power steering. The fluid changing colors like that would be my alert.

 

[VortepJ]

Tires are in great shape, rotated regularly and have plenty of tread. Balanced recently too.

I haven't done toe test, I can do that once this rain lets up.

As for the bolts, which ones would you be talking about? Would it be the one that connects the grommet and the bracket?
I've added a photo I ripped off of another thread.

If I had to guess though they're most likely rust welded to the bracket.

There are two large bolts that hold the power steering rack to the frame, at least one of them has a small slot and the other could be rusted out or something. That would account for the change in steering angle. As others have said, though, with the fluid going bad and the leaks, you probably have a bad rack and/or pump.

 

[Moist]

Power steering fluid should not be going from pink to black color-wise and smell bad in 6 months. In a good working system fluid change interval @ 30k miles ( that's when I change mine '05 4R Ltd AWD w/V8 and fluid was only slightly darker vs new ). I would suspect the pump is on its last leg ( shearing fluid from worn pump components, raising temp of fluid & blackening it ). A heavy steering effort can also suggest pump is not producing rated pressure to assist.
There should also be no side to side ( near zero free movement of steering wheel w/engine off ) which is an indication of a steering system in optimum operation i.e. outer tie rods to rack to steering wheel. Toyota service manual specs a max movement of 1/2" of steering wheel rotation from normal wear & tear. My 2 cents.

Thanks for the reply!
I agree, although I do think it's worth mentioning I put somewhere around 25-30k miles on the car in 6 months. I am very impressed in that case the pump hasn't kicked the bucket if it's making that much heat. I've always thought it was contamination from degrading hoses.

I'll grab a video after classes but there is a fair amount of side to side movement. Never knew there shouldn't be much play at all.

Now that you mention it that might explain the whining the engine makes at low rpm. I always thought it was the alternator making the whine.

 

[Moist]

Tires are in great shape, rotated regularly and have plenty of tread. Balanced recently too.

I haven't done toe test, I can do that once this rain lets up.

As for the bolts, which ones would you be talking about? Would it be the one that connects the grommet and the bracket?
I've added a photo I ripped off of another thread.

If I had to guess though they're most likely rust welded to the bracket.

Quick updates:

I have slight toe out on both fronts. It doesn't seem very bad at all.

As for the steering bolts they're completely rust welded to the thing. A fairly secure rust mound where they are. Replacing them might not be a bad idea to be honest.

I took a look at the power steering pump and it is by far the rustiest thing in the engine. Hoses are all shot and becoming brittle, If I had to guess they're degrading and mixing with the PS fluid.
There's also slight play in the pulley that attaches to it, the bearing is hard to turn after sitting. (also a grinding noise akin to moving stone blocks across each other)

Least the PS pump is cheap. I'll monitor it closely and wait for it to kick the bucket. I need to re-do most of the serpentine system, I know my alternator is reaching the same point as well.

Thanks for the help ya'll. I thought it would be something to do with the sagging springs and weird negative camber.

 

[Moist]

I had to take a wheel off of the car not too long ago and decided to inspect the brakes while I was in there. One of them was wearing extremely odd with the pad wearing at an egragarious angle to the rotor. I've known the front rotors are not flat and have a slight warp from heat damage.

The slide pins were apparently never greased and so I replace then and then greased them. I cleaned the brakes and the car is driving far better. In normal driving (not on the brakes) the steering shakes less and the wandering feels to a less degree (though not by much).

I haven't done anything else outside of this. Could this be brake related? I'm starting to think it's multiple things piling on to make this as weird as it is.

 

[fnsquirrel]

I am getting to the end of my rope here trying to figure out what this is.

It's not a major issue and is very driveable, just annoying.

The Problem:

The steering has an awful tendency to wander in random directions. It's never severe and never warrants more than 5-10 degrees of countersteer to keep it going in a straight line, but it changes which direction it's pulling as it drives along. Never sudden shifts, very gradual and almost not noticeable.
The steering feels quite heavy and does absolutely nothing for maybe -5 to +5 degrees of rotation.

Other possibly related oddities

The front wheels are cambered negative, but when load is taken off of them they camber slightly positive.
There is very noticeable bump steer when the front wheels interact with something. Again not severe, but noticeable.
Tires are wearing on the inside of the tire which is consistent with negative camber.
Front end clunk when driving in reverse from the front end. (Most likely not suspension but it's worth noting)
Every once in a while the car creaks from the front suspension, but it's only usually after it's sat for a few days.

What I've done to try and diagnose the issue

I have jacked the front of the car up and checked for play. There is absolutely nothing other than a minor side to side play in just the steering that doesn't make it's way to the wheel (It moves one wheel only unless you really pull on it, then both wheels begin to steer)

Ball joints look good, Tie rod ends are old but otherwise fine. No cracks, boots are fine.

I have also done some "loaded" tests where I compress the front suspension and there is no difference.

Springs and shocks are old and a little softer than they used to be, but there is very little bouncing and feel good otherwise. The front springs have sagged considerably and I've lost somewhere around an inch of clearance.

No weird noises going over bumps. Recently had an alignment and is holding it very well. (still wanders)

The power steering pump is fine. It's old but is in good working order. The power steering fluid is old but it's leaking at the reservoir inlet enough I have to add more every 2 or so months.

The only weird thing I have found is that the inner tie rod ends have a small amount of power steering fluid in them. It corrodes the boots faster, but I just replaced them before they burnt through. The leak from the steering rack is incredibly slow.

I have checked the steering column and there is a small amount of play towards the wheel. U joints seem fine otherwise.

It did have the front right wheel ripped off at the knuckle by the last owner, but the auto body shop only recommended knuckle, CV axle, and tie rod replacement.

I'm really not sure where to go from here. It still isn't a huge deal, just makes dealing with the wind a little more stressful. Thanks!

I'd be checking over that power steering setup first. Do you have any modifications? Wheels are stock? Spacers? If not, you mentioned you had an alignment done but you have a lot of worn out parts? Hard to do a correct alignment like that.

 

[4R005]

If your front tires are wearing on the insides ( signs of cupping ) and vehicle 'wanders' , IMHO tracking straight on hiway necessitates a toe-in for correct alignment and even wear across thread width of tires.
In my experience, a toe-in condition is a requisite for tracking straight. Other more informed experts please chime in.

Slight side-to-side ( @ 3 & 9 clock hand positions on wheel ) movement of one wheel while suspension unloaded is indication of wear in tie-rods ends ( inner/outer/both ) on that side. If movement also present @ 6 & 12 clock position, then wheel bearing is worn. Only play @ 6 & 12 position, then ball joint is worn.

 

[Moist]

I'd be checking over that power steering setup first. Do you have any modifications? Wheels are stock? Spacers? If not, you mentioned you had an alignment done but you have a lot of worn out parts? Hard to do a correct alignment like that.

Thank you for the response!

I haven't really done any modifications. I have aftermarket rims that are the same dimensions of the original, my tires are slightly larger than the originals too but I don't remember their size right off the top of my head.

I have shortened one of the PS fluid hoses that leads to the reservoir. That was a temporary fix that has held since, the end of the hose cracked on the highway causing a bad leak and so I cut it, clamped it down and it's been fine. (The issues I've described existed before this)

No spacers, no suspension modifications otherwise. It also doesn't have XREAS suspension.

It hasn't all been replaced evenly. About 3 years ago I broke a halfshaft and a tie rod. I only replaced that side instead of both. Not sure if that changes anything.

The previous owner did collide with a storm drain and ripped the passenger side steering knuckle apart and wheel off. That was about 10-12 years ago, and the knuckle, passanger tie rod (entire assembly), wheel bearing and the ball joints were replaced on the passenger side.

Parts are old but seem to be in fine condition (aside from the steering which does have a mild PS leak). They pass any play tests I give them, with no play on 6-12 and little play from 9-3. I've been told It's the steering moving when I do the 9-3 test.
Springs and Shocks are old but not horribly worn. (I think these are contributing to camber changes. When loaded they sit with noticeable negative camber and very slight positive camber when lifted. The springs are sagging from age.
The front sway bar has bad bushings and is in the worst condition of everything. Although from everything I've read it shouldn't impact driving like this.

I had also brought it to a specialist too to get it checked out when the issue was far better. I had them inspect the front and rear suspension. They only found that one of the wheels was balanced incorrectly. Otherwise they couldn't identify what caused the weird handling as the suspension seemed okay. (They did advise spring replacement may be a good idea in the next 2 or so years)

I will admit I cheap out on my alignments and that may be a part of it.

It also has come to attention from another 4runner owner that the steering wheel should re-center. Mine doesn't and it never has.

The plan for right now is to get a professional alignment done and see what that does for it. I've got to be strategic in my acts to fix this as I can't really throw money at it. It needs one anyway it's past due for an alignment & rotation.

Oh and apologies my images aren't attaching! I'm not sure why but the handful of images I've linked to don't appear.

 

[4R005]

If your steering wheel is not re-centering ( i.e. after completing a left or right turn ) , check that the U-joint in the intermediate steering shaft ( the one that connects the input pinion stub shaft from the rack to the upper steering shaft which is where your steering wheel is) is not binding from rust/lack of lub. This U joint is out of the way and largely missed or ignored for regular lubrication requirements. Mine '05 4R w/V8 had this non re-centering from this U-joint binding up from lack of lubrication. To get at this joint, remove front driver side wheel and the joint is readily accessible behind the rubber flap of the wheel well. I soaked joint with WD40 followed by coating w/engine oil/grease. Its 5 or 6 years ago and its been trouble free since. I do sprayed a light oil on joint when I happened to removed front wheel for other purposes.
With front suspension off the ground, run steering lock to lock to rotate joint to free up and get some lub into the needle bearings in U-joint. There may be other causes for your non re-centering phenomenon but the above was my experience w/my 4R.

 

[Moist]

If your steering wheel is not re-centering ( i.e. after completing a left or right turn ) , check that the U-joint in the intermediate steering shaft ( the one that connects the input pinion stub shaft from the rack to the upper steering shaft which is where your steering wheel is) is not binding from rust/lack of lub. This U joint is out of the way and largely missed or ignored for regular lubrication requirements. Mine '05 4R w/V8 had this non re-centering from this U-joint binding up from lack of lubrication. To get at this joint, remove front driver side wheel and the joint is readily accessible behind the rubber flap of the wheel well. I soaked joint with WD40 followed by coating w/engine oil/grease. Its 5 or 6 years ago and its been trouble free since. I do sprayed a light oil on joint when I happened to removed front wheel for other purposes.
With front suspension off the ground, run steering lock to lock to rotate joint to free up and get some lub into the needle bearings in U-joint. There may be other causes for your non re-centering phenomenon but the above was my experience w/my 4R.

I'll do this tommorow. Thank you for this!

 

[Moist]

I'll do this tommorow. Thank you for this!

No dice on this, mostly because I can't jack both wheels of the car into the air at the same time. (Front jacking point under the engine is gone) I did give it a go on the ground (and a lot of time) but I don't think I was able to get any into the U-Joint.
Thank you anyways!

I am noticing this feeling is lessened by high ambient temperatures. Toe in and out is acceptable.
It has to be something with the Rack/Power steering system or the sway bar being as bad as it is. (There was far less of those bushings left than I remembered).
I'm going to replace the sway bar bushings since they are cheap. I will also be testing the P/S pump (and most likely replacing it).
I should also take the inner tie rods out, there is a lot of PS fluid in those boots.

Thank you all!

 

[MikeinNH67]

I'm going to replace the sway bar bushings since they are cheap. I will also be testing the P/S pump (and most likely replacing it).
I should also take the inner tie rods out, there is a lot of PS fluid in those boots.

Thank you all!

When the sway bar bushings are bad, you generally get a thunk under small stutter bumps. Any PS fluid in the bellows on the ends that are over the inner tie rod means the rack is leaking, it's toast. As for the steering u-joint, you can tell that is bad by moving the wheel back and forth while watching the joint from above. You'll see the play in it unless it's frozen, then jack up both front wheels to see if it's notchy while turning the wheel with the car off.

 

[Moist]

When the sway bar bushings are bad, you generally get a thunk under small stutter bumps. Any PS fluid in the bellows on the ends that are over the inner tie rod means the rack is leaking, it's toast. As for the steering u-joint, you can tell that is bad by moving the wheel back and forth while watching the joint from above. You'll see the play in it unless it's frozen, then jack up both front wheels to see if it's notchy while turning the wheel with the car off.

Yeah I get that thumping over bumps. It's been on my list for some time now.
As for the U joint it seems fine, I don't see any (Or feel any by grabbing the steering shaft.)

I'm going to see if I can't replace the seals for the PS rack. If it's possible (and not a miserable experience) I'll do it. But it'll just be a lot of research, I really doubt this car will live for it to become a terribly huge issue.

Thanks!